So a HVM is just a decent good person. That’s what I’ve learned from reading FDS. What percentage of men are decent good people, and what percent are assholes?

Bluefoxcrush · 2020-08-15T23:59:27+00:00

I’m not sure anyone can answer what percentage of guys that are scum bags.

I can say right now with covid makes dating (and thus FDS) skew a bit higher on male assholery. Why would I say that? If you aren’t able to meet new people in your day to day life, and you want to date, you turn towards online dating.

In OLD, men can act lazy in ways they can’t around people they know. Asking a random woman for sex on OLD generally means that at the worst he’ll be blocked but at the best he’ll get sex. Score! Copy and paste the same bullshit lines to a hundred women and he’ll likely get laid sometime.

Asking his brother’s girlfriend’s college roommate that just moved into town for sex? At the best he’ll get sex, sure. But at worst he’ll be labeled a creep. There is consequence for that action. He has to put in a lot more effort to get that sex.

Same man; different behavior. How would you rate him? Say a man is a creep online but a gentleman in real life. His brother’s girlfriend can swear up and down he’s a great guy because she’s never seen anything different. But to all those women online he’s just another thirsty creep.

to_learn_to_fly · 2020-08-16T07:34:51+00:00

I think there'd be many more guys acting decently if this ridiculous "alpha male vs. beta simp" BS wasn't so widespread. Promising, but impressionable boys encounter this idea + porn at a very young age, and even if they intuitively know how a woman should be treated, they start to think that disrespecting her is a way to go. They have no idea that this is a double-edged sword and dooms them for unhappy relationships, because even if they lure a young, inexperienced girl with low self-esteem, disrespecting her and/or not appreciating her only makes her bitter and resentful, inevitably leading to a toxic relationship.

I think only a small percent of men is organically wired this way, but most start to blindly follow advice from other clueless men instead of listening to women and getting to know them to learn how to create successful relationships with them. So yeah, most men are not decent human beings for their dates already in their 20s.

BabyGothQ · 2020-08-16T01:10:27+00:00

In my opinion, 70-90% of men are assholes.

The number is so high and varied for a lot of reasons:

There are different kinds of assholes, each with their own set of pitfalls, rules and dangers.

There are the narcissists, the narcissistic tendencies, the psycho/sociopaths or psycho/sociopath copycats, the incels, the fuckboys, and then the run of the mill liars, cheaters, rapists, assaulters, murderers, mentally ill and addicted.

Women, however, are split into the categories (according to society/men): gold-diggers, bitches, prudes, crazies and sluts.

As you can imagine, these two are not the same.

The reason women stay? You touched on it. Women are conditioned from birth to swallow their own wants, needs and desires to care for others first. If women step out of line in anyway, they get labeled and abused/discarded.

Since birth.

ErikaNaumann · 2020-08-16T15:45:31+00:00

Yeah, you actually got the idea. A HVM is basically a decent honest man. Which just makes the whole thing so sad, because they are so rare.

You also got why so many guys hate fds, they feel called out and don't like it.

The percentage? I don't think anyone can give you one. I'm sure it will vary a lot by cultures, countries and cities, but they are a minority for sure.

Pahapan · 2020-08-16T06:07:28+00:00

When wondering what percentage of men are low value, consider the fact that multiple studies have shown that women do a disproportionate amount of household work and childcare, even if they work comparable hours to their SO and even if they make more money. The average man in a relationship with a woman is taking advantage of her. LVM are the norm.

The reason for the disparity is cultural and our cultures are influenced by our biology. Virtually every culture is patriarchal. Men are physically stronger and don't have the biological disadvantage of being the sex that gestates young and gives birth and breastfeeds. Gestating, birthing, and breastfeeding have historically made women very vulnerable, on top of our other physical disadvantages. I don't believe that women are innately morally superior to men, we've just lacked the ability to subjugate the other sex (and we have the benefit of things like lower testosterone levels that make us less aggressive). If things were different, say if human males were like male seahorses and gestated young, things could be very different. Plenty of women are low value and plenty of women since the dawn of humanity have been selfish, greedy, and awful, they just haven't been in a position to cause as much damage and haven't been able to exert as much influence on the way our cultures developed.

But luckily humans have evolved to be sentient, intelligent beings. We're not slaves to our biology and we're not slaves to our culture. Any good hearted man who studies inequality can come to the conclusion that our patriarchal culture is bullshit and they can make the conscious decision to not partake in it. And that's what makes a high value man.

FurryBellyButt0n · 2020-08-17T21:43:13+00:00

I appreciate you acknowledging that most men are trash. I find that men who get overly defensive when women joke around and say "All men are trash" and feel the need to argue or mansplain why we are wrong because it's NoT aLl MeN are the issue. IMO if you are a potentially HVM, you are aware of the fuckery other men will try with women so you would not get offended when we say men are trash, because you know this general statement is not applicable to you! That's the difference.

I would say most men are trash. At least 90-95% of them. Because of some of these things...

When we share an experience of a mutual friend that sexually harasses us, makes us uncomfortable, or did something inappropriate and/or abusive towards a woman in a big group of friends or social circles, it's usually "what she did wrong or how she could have handled the situation better" vs "holding the man in question accountable for his values/beliefs/entitlement towards a woman and holding him accountable for their actions or manipulative behaviors to suggest the other party is wrong."
If a man is accused of mistreating a woman, most circles will either stay neutral and/or not take a stance even if they know he is creepy or wrong or LVM/NVM, but will not shame or have consequences for this man. Or they will imply "there's two sides to every story so I want to stay neutral." Complicity is compliance with the LVM and if you are not supporting the survivor or woman speaking out, you are part of the issue. For them to share or take action, it's significant enough and real enough to be taken seriously. Also you are not a cop or investigator so you don't need to collect evidence or debate among LV people that may question the woman because of covert sexism. Realize that rapists and other abusive men lurk among us and we are not immune to LVM/NVM in our day to day lives. It's not an abstract concept. It's a real one and silence does noone favors.

Why_dont_ya_ · 2020-08-17T05:29:05+00:00

2% of men are decent.

desertedstreets · 2020-08-16T19:01:06+00:00

Can't comment on the statistics; I am not aware of any studies done on the subject of % of asshole men existing around the world as it is subjective but 100% concur that there are relatively fewer decent men out there compared to the asshats. Will also state that % of women with low standards and lack of boundaries is also relatively higher, which perpetuates egregious male behavior and lets them get away with it, not withstanding cultural, physical and biological attributes. I compare this with the fraud risk triangle to break it down. Generally speaking, in order to conduct fraud (or indulge in intentional immoral, manipulative acts or poor behavior) of any type, three components need to be present: pressure, opportunity and rationization. In this instance, 1) pressure for males exists in the form of the push to embody characteristics of dominance, aggressiveness and status, show little to no emotion through constant exposure to themes of violence and inequality (peers, media, news, porn) as they adapt to the norms of masculine behavior demonstrated by society. 2) Opportunity: Poor female standards and boundaries when it comes to men, tolerance and enabling of bad behavior, no repercussions for men for treating women like shit, abundance attitude. And lastly, 3) Rationalization: centuries of patriarchal society and ingrained notion of male superiority and dominance woven through belief systems and social institutions, male privelege ("boys will be boys", "this is what men do" narratives). As females, we need to start with ourselves and change as individuals and re-evaluate how we gender and engage with others. We can fully control the opportunity aspect of this triangle by adopting failproof dealbreakers. Not to disregard pressure and rationalization components, they can be equally improved but they are more macro/socio economic in nature and require institutional change, political engagement and a visible shift in media and the social influence it has. Whereas firm boundaries, self respect and zero tolerancen for male bullshit tolerance are characteristics (I call them weapons) a female can 100% develop and adopt at individual level to protect herself from LVMs of the world should she choose to. I agree with you on that, OP. Females need to STOP accepting poor behavior from men, period.

NoNarcs_ · 2020-08-18T14:23:21+00:00

"So yea, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the percentage of men who are basically scumbags."

I can't give you an exact number, but in my own experience it has been the majority. I'm 28 and I've never been married and it's precisely because I've never met a man who is worthy of my love. OLD is pure trash, as others mention. Fuckboys, PUA's, incels, MGTOWS, and TRP fuckers are everywhere online. I work in tech which is a male dominated field and unfortunately it's not much better. I was physically assaulted by an ex coworker when I failed to say hello back to him BECAUSE I WAS WEARING HEADPHONES. Tons of misogynists in STEM fields, especially boomer men. There's a cultural aspect to it as well, I'm middle eastern and I've noticed they treat women like subhuman objects more so than caucasian men, though I will draw no definitive conclusions about race.

"Why is it so high if it’s so high?"

Because men have designed the system in their own favor, if something works with minimal effort why change it? Also a lot of men don't want to level up, improve themselves, take responsibility for themselves, or put in any effort at all. They just don't want to.

"Is it because girls grow up not valuing themselves?"

Are you asking if there are a lot of shitty men because women don't value themselves?

This is just another example of blaming a woman for a mans problem. If men are shitty it is because women don't value themselves. Fuck that. Men are shitty because they want to be shitty, has nothing to do with women.

"Do they feel rushed for time? To hurry up and lock down some guy before she’s too old?"

Are you asking if men are shitty because women feel rushed for time because they don't want to be single and old ? No, men are shitty because men are shitty. Has nothing to do with women. It's about self responsibility. Women put up with shitty men bc we're taught that spinsterhood is unfavorable.

burpleseaurchin · 2020-08-20T06:31:29+00:00

LVM in terms of relationships with women are rampant and abundant. However, these same men may have the capability to be a decent-okay-ish enough friend, employee, boss, brother, etc to other men. (Note that men also have incredibly low bars for each other.) This is why men have trouble seeing it. You think there's basic requirements to be HVM but the big hurdle is these things have to be directed towards women for it to count, and men can't be arsed to be good to women because most of them are misogynistic.

Suddenly, the guy you've seen volunteer his weekends at the food bank is leveraging that virtue signaling to pump and dump women on dating apps. The dad who religiously attends his son's sports games and seems like a caring parent doesn't help out with household chores and thinks it's 80% his wife's job when they both work. That normal, decent guy you know and hang out with is such a porn addict he couldn't get it up for any woman who gave him a chance. All losers, but as a male friend/colleague/family member/etc you would potentially never know.

ivy176 · 2020-08-19T01:40:54+00:00

No clue but my experience with men is that most were bad people, in terms of ones I was in relationships with, my father and random men who assaulted me etc

degnan1214 · 2020-08-16T16:47:04+00:00

I have no idea what the true percentage is, or if there is a way to definitively pinpoint who is "good" and who is "bad." I mean obviously, some people are crap and that verdict on them will be unanimous, but there are probably some that reside in a grey area.

I love FDS but sometimes the venting about "All men are trash" bothers me (because I definitely don't believe that is true). But I'm not trying to police what women say there. I don't doubt that for these women, ALL men THEY encounter ARE trash. That's the thing—you only really know about the subset of people you meet.

When I was younger (middle and high school & college), a higher percentage of men were flat-out douches. Cat-calling, harassing, douches. Definitely a higher percentage. That percentage has gone down for me now because I work at home and don't have to deal with people I don't want to deal with. I don't hang out in social situations where a lot of LVM (douches) congregate. Life is so much nicer now. :)

If I were to say, "90% of men are decent" that would only reflect my experiences now and not reflect reality. I have no idea what the reality is in total.

I do know that too many men can be douches because they're allowed to get away with it. "Boys will be boys." I think some men "grow out of it" in time, but I don't know what percentage that is. Thanks to the Internet, I realize that some men never "grow out of it" and that is distressing to see.

I see FDS as a response to men "getting away with it" for too long. My personal belief is that a lot more men could be decent, if they weren't allowed to get away with the bare minimum or less. In other words, I believe that many men could "grow out of it" in time. So I feel optimistic. I feel FDS can be a force for positive change when it tells women to uphold their boundaries, not let men "get away with it" (meaning don't reward them for bad behavior). Yes, I feel optimistic.

RiteWriter · 2020-08-29T01:18:13+00:00

❤️

curlygirl507 · 2020-08-31T22:09:37+00:00

About 98% of men are flawed in a fundamental way. I'm not talking about their appearance or finances. I'm talking about their actual character. It's mostly rooted in selfishness.

lvoncreek · 2020-08-16T08:57:13+00:00

Around 40% are good

GlowInTheDarkSpaces · 2020-09-01T05:44:38+00:00

Being optimistic I'd say 20 - 25%. I think the number seems lower because they're not out there dating, some woman grabbed them early.

I wish I would have known this in high school. I think I could have transitioned to lesbianism in college. How hard can it be? It's like minoring in dance.

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