My wife doesn’t believe that women aren’t held to the same level of accountability as men.

SaracensFlanker · 2021-12-20T17:55:44+00:00

This isn't something that really needs to be debated. Look at the sentences given to women compared to men for committing the EXACT same criminal offences, both in aggregate data and in comparable court cases.

SamaelET · 2021-12-20T18:12:07+00:00

The Gender Gap in Sex Offender Punishment

Racial, Ethnic, and Gender Disparities in Sentencing: Evidence from the U.S. Federal Courts

The Determinants of Punishment: Deterrence, Incapacitation and Vengeance (drivers who kill women get 56 percent longer sentences)

Help seeking experience of male Intimate Partner Violence victims: Police more likely to jail him than to jail the woman (29.7% vs 20.9%) when he calls them.

Women in UK cannot be send to prison for non violent offense. Men can.

Women rape men and boys in refugees camp. But people talk not about the victims, but the fact that migrants could think that women are sex objects and will start to rape women.

Almost two thirds of countries where judicial corporal punishement is legal, have it to men and/or boys only.

lightning_palm · 2021-12-20T19:52:58+00:00

Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases (Starr, 2012) found that women were twice as likely to avoid incarceration entirely and that men got 63% longer sentences for the exact same crimes.

The Determinants of Punishment: Deterrence, Incapacitation and Vengeance (Glaeser & Sacerdote, 2000) found that "[a]mong vehicular homicides, drivers who kill women get 56 percent longer sentences [than drivers who kill men]."

Demographic Differences in Sentencing: An Update to the 2012 Booker Report (2017) found:

Female offenders of all races received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, as they had for the prior four periods. […] White female offenders received sentences that were 28.9 percent shorter than those of White male offenders in the Post-Report period, compared to 31.1 percent shorter during the Gall period. Black female offenders and Other Race female offenders also received shorter sentences than White male offenders during the Post-Report period, at 29.7 percent and 35.4 percent shorter respectively. In the Gall period these differences were 33.1 percent and 34.6 percent, respectively. Hispanic female offenders received sentences that were 16.8 percent shorter than those of White male offenders during the Post-Report period, compared to 18.2 percent shorter in the Gall period.

Spouse Murder Defendants in Large Urban Counties, U.S. Department of Justice, 1995 found:

Wives [who murdered their husbands] received shorter prison sentences than husbands [who murdered their wives] (a 10-year difference, on average) even when the comparison is restricted to defendants who were alike in terms of whether or not they were provoked-- The average prison sentence for unprovoked wife defendants was 7 years, or 10 years shorter than the average 17 years for unprovoked husband defendants.

Sentencing Disparity and Discrimination: A Focus on Gender", chapter 4 of "How Do Judges Decide? The Search for Fairness and Justice in Punishment notes that "offenders convicted of crimes against women were more than two-and-a-half times more likely to be sentenced to death".

Does Victim Gender Increase Sentence Severity? Further Explorations of Gender Dynamics and Sentencing Outcomes (Curry et al., 2004) showed:

Using data for offenders convicted of three violent crimes in the seven largest metro counties in Texas in 1991, the authors find evidence that offenders who victimized females received substantially longer sentences than offenders who victimized males. Results also show that victim gender effects on sentence length are conditioned by offender gender, such that male offenders who victimize females received the longest sentence of any other victim gender/offender gender combination.

Chivalry is Not Dead: Murder, Gender, and the Death Penalty (Shatz & Shatz, 2011) found:

Women guilty of capital murder are far less likely than men to be sentenced to death, and defendants who kill women are far more likely to be sentenced to death than defendants who kill men. We argue that all of these findings are consistent with chivalric norms, and we conclude that, in the prosecutors' decisions to seek death and juries' decisions to impose it, chivalry appears to be alive and well.

Man up and take it: Gender bias in moral typecasting (Reynolds et al. 2020) shows that people more readily assume female victims and male perpetrators, that people assume that women suffer more pain from their harm, even when women fall in the perpetrator role, see male suffering as more deserved, fair and moral, feel more inclined to punish men and would like to dole out harsher punishments to men, assume more suffering and have more pity for women even in those cases where the real-world discrepancies signal that men have it worse.

News Stories of Intimate Partner Violence: An Experimental Examination of Participant Sex, Perpetrator Sex, and Violence Severity on Seriousness, Sympathy, and Punishment Preferences (Savage et al. 2016) showed that people's "[r]atings of seriousness of IPV for stories with male perpetrators were significantly higher than ratings of seriousness for stories with female perpetrators" and that overall, participants had significantly higher sympathy for female victims of domestic violence and "reported stronger punishment preferences for male perpetrators".

A study with the title Aggression as a function of the interaction of the sex of the aggressor and the sex of the victim (Taylor and Epstein 1967) showed that both men and women were less likely to administer electric shocks to women than men. A replication of the experiment with the title Would You Deliver an Electric Shock in 2015? Obedience in the Experimental Paradigm Developed by Stanley Milgram in the 50 Years Following the Original Studies (Doliński et al. 2017) also shows this, although their sample size was too small to have statistical significance.

In one study that examined the trolley dilemma titled Moral Chivalry: Gender and Harm Sensitivity Predict Costly Altruism (FeldmanHall et al. 2016), "88% of participants reported that they would push [a] man off the footbridge instead [of a woman]". The same study also found that "[p]articipants kept significantly less money when interacting with a female target than a male target" to save them from harm.

According to a report titled Do You Receive a Lighter Prison Sentence Because You Are a Woman? An Economic Analysis of Federal Criminal Sentencing Guidelines (Sarnikar et al., 2007) which examined US criminal sentencing data, if women were treated like men in the end stage of the criminal justice system they would on average serve 9.5 months longer, i.e. they would receive a 56% sentencing length increase. Since this report only took into account the end stage of the criminal justice system as that is all the data permitted, in practice this gap will be even larger.

See also this post from LWMA: Research Article: "while people demand equal sentencing decisions between male and female child sex offenders, this is limited by public perception when the abuser is an attractive female and, as a result, perceived as less harmful to the child, who is no longer as a victim but as a ‘Lucky Boy’."

LondonDude123 · 2021-12-20T18:16:03+00:00

The UK Government has literally instructed Judges in the Justice System to give lesser sentences to Women... That right there should be enough!

skcuf2 · 2021-12-20T20:06:01+00:00

Just ask her to watch you as you sit on a park bench alone near children as she sits on the other side of the park. If either of you get approached agree to say, "I just like children."

That'll solve the debate.

DamianDaws · 2021-12-20T17:59:07+00:00

Rollo tamassi actually explored this and examined why in several of his literature pieces. I'd recommend going over this. A lot of West culture and "modern" societies tend to allow women to get away with far more and are held less accountable for their actions. As an example we can look at how relationships are perceived during times of break ups, it's typically a man's fault as to why relationships fail even if she cheated. This isn't the same for all cases of course, but it's occuring more often than not. Women's accountability is often joked about across social media due to how common it is. There's a lot of research and literature out there that I can remmend reading. Feel free to send a PM!

slipkid223 · 2021-12-20T19:37:52+00:00

Look at the two big trials, Maxwell and Elizabeth Holmes. Both of their defenses are "Men made me do it, I was helpless"

Look at Jodie Arias, she was spared the death penalty because a (female) juror said she "uncomfortable" sending a Female to death row.

Or you can just have her watch As Good as it Gets with Jack Nicolson.

Receptionist: “How do you write women so well?”

Nicholson: “I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.”

312Michelle · 2021-12-20T22:32:36+00:00

"My wife doesn’t believe that women aren’t held to the same level of accountability as men."

Well, I'm a woman and I think your wife is dumb, hypocritical or both. Women aren't held to the same level of accountability as men by the justice system. It is a fact. And it's just wrong. Because women should be held to the same level of accountability and personal responsibility as men. Of course they should be. And If your wife doesn't get that, then she doesn't believe in real equality and she doesn't believe that women should be treated as grown-ass adults with agency and personal responsibility instead of being treated like fucking children who need to be coddled, spoon-fed and don't have to take personal responsibility for themselves. Not holding women to the same level of accountability and personal responsibility as men is infantilizing women and that's why Egalitarian Anti-Feminists like me keep saying that Feminism is the most sexist ideology on earth. Not only does it vilify men and blame men for all the evils of the world (misandry), but it infantilizes women by not holding them to the same level of accountability and personal responsibility as men (misogyny), so yes Feminism is the most sexist (misandrist and misogynistic) ideology on earth.

Millions of women reject Feminism for Egalitarianism and/or the MRA. Only 10% of the population or less identify as Feminist, and most people don't want to be associate with the vile and nasty Feminist ideology (they don't want to be associated with an ideology that's about demonizing males, being a victim, and being angry all the time). The justice system need to be changed from the inside and then women will be held to the same level of accountability and personal responsibility as men. I hope this happens in my lifetime. Because female criminals and female child predators should definitely be held to the same level of accountability and personal responsibility as the male ones and they should be in jail for their crimes. Too many times in my life I've seen the justice system fail men and boys who suffered abuse at the hands of women and girls. The justice system must be changed and reformed.

An angry and disgusted Center-Left Egalitarian Anti-Feminist and progressive Christian woman who is the aunt of two young boys age 8 and 6.

ZS_1171 · 2021-12-20T19:29:25+00:00

Thats most women, i don't know how some could be so oblivious to the inequalities us as men often face today.

ThePigmanAgain · 2021-12-20T20:32:02+00:00

She sounds too dumb to go for data or such. Try emotion instead by playing her the recording in which Amber Heard verbally abuses Johnny Depp while admitting to physically abusing him, then ask her if Heard has been cancelled like Depp has.

Emotional-Ostrich-83 · 2021-12-21T00:48:24+00:00

My ex wife tried to beat our son to death when he was 18 months old. She held him down and repeatedly punched him in the head. She then scratched and hit me when I pulled him away from her. She admitted what she did to the police. She was charged with disorderly conduct so she wouldn't lose custody because according to the judge a boy needs his mother.

Had the gender roles been reversed does anyone believe the outcome would have been the same?

RefrigeratorCute5952 · 2021-12-21T00:35:22+00:00

give her this subreddit /r/pussypass and let her read it for a week or two.

it’s not made up, sometimes i feel like i am being gaslighted when it seems super obvious but i know awareness and sympathy can be hard for some

edit: forgot to mention how title ix is unconstitutional because it assumes the man is at fault and automatically protects the woman. oftentimes it is the male who gets kicked out of university when in reality they both should get suspended until the justice system hears the case

Altctrldelna · 2021-12-21T00:50:29+00:00

If she has ever had intercourse with you while you were inebriated and she wasn't, does she consider that rape? If no ask her why she feels that way considering the reversed roles would be considered rape by law in most areas.

EgalitarianFacts2 · 2021-12-21T02:27:20+00:00

Here...use this:

The Paper Abortion for Men. Is it okay to force a woman to be a parent because a pregnancy occurs? No. Therefore the same for men.

Equal Parenting Laws. 50% automatically assumed custody is self evidently equal.

Eliminating, or forcing women to sign up for, the draft.

Gender Equal Sentencing Laws

Gender Equal Funding Laws

Gender Equal Physical Requirements Laws

Elimination of VAWA for it's violation of men's 14th Amendment Rights. Most victims of intimate partner violence ARE MEN!! http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

Elimination of the pay gap myth. Take into account all factors rather than just all full time men's and women's wages, which is laughably simplistic, and the gap disappears.

Gender Equal Divorce Laws and Enforcement

Anonymity for the Accused Laws If the rape accuser is anonymous, so is the accused.

Men's Studies courses in all Universities, or the Elimination of Women's Studies

Men's Domestic Violence and Abuse Shelters

Right to Genital Integrity for Male Babies. If they were chopping off 20% of the nerve endings in every vulva, there would be an uproar. Babies can't consent to permanent sexual alteration, regardless if it helps prevent infections or not.

Stop medicating boys in schools. Boys aren't defective, the system is.

Stop painting all men as potential rapists/child molesters. "Teach men not to rape." Like all men are rapists and must be taught otherwise. How about "Teach women not to be golddiggers." See how both contain sexist premises? And, to top it all off, almost 50% of all rape allegations are false! https://www.aals.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Bowen-Kanin-False-Rape-Empirical.pdf

pentalana · 2021-12-20T21:11:02+00:00

How about jail sentences? There is a huge discrepancy between imprisonment of males and females for the same crimes.

Createdtopostthisnow · 2021-12-20T21:51:56+00:00

There is no point in continuing that conversation. She understands fully that they aren't, but there is such a grudge Western women hold against men, in the back of her mind she is thinking "good".

Just enjoy your life, why argue things you know to be true, don't mess up your marriage.

NohoTwoPointOh · 2021-12-20T22:08:39+00:00

You're better off looking at asymmetric sentencing, how women have rights (voting) without responsibility (selective service) and the like.

AaM_S · 2021-12-20T18:56:05+00:00

Please tell us if the data provided here helped your case and what your wife responded.

sre01 · 2021-12-20T22:25:26+00:00

Just an anecdote I have noticed through the years. It seems to be socially acceptable for women to be late, but men are expected to be punctual. I have found this to be the norm in my personal life and at most jobs I've worked. It has even sparked a few minor arguments with my wife. She feels no pressure to be on time and does not act with any sense of urgency when we are running late.

fuzijo · 2021-12-20T22:59:49+00:00

boko haram, speaks for itself.

Teddy_Swolesevelt · 2021-12-20T23:36:57+00:00

We must end the gender cage gap!

hottake_toothache · 2021-12-21T01:03:18+00:00

That's normal for women in my experience.

hear2think · 2021-12-21T01:43:01+00:00

The media will never call Ghislaine Maxwell a pedophile

g1455ofwater · 2021-12-20T19:54:36+00:00

You can't make people be reasonable or have a desire for truth. If someone is an adult and has grown up in this world and doesn't believe that I think that's when you question their perception. Do they honestly not perceive something so obvious, How can that be. Evidence is only useful to those that can perceive it.

Bravo_Juliet01 · 2021-12-20T23:02:01+00:00

If I were a defendant in court, my odds of getting a lighter sentence would significantly increase if I were a woman. This applies to almost every single crime in the book.

TheSnesLord · 2021-12-21T02:05:02+00:00

Your wife won't ever be convinced, even if you have all the facts and evidence.

Just like how women will never change their minds about the Wage Gap, which has been debunked a million times.

rahsoft · 2021-12-20T22:34:11+00:00

i think your title should be amended,

it gives the impression she believes that women aren't held, but I suspect you meant shouldn't

Rock_Granite · 2021-12-21T01:48:18+00:00

It's not just the criminal justice system. It's every day life. When is the last time you heard a woman say, "yeah I'm sorry, it was my fault", and stop right there without blaming something else.

Or how about how society just expects a woman to "change her mind". While men are held to firm standards.

blaizken_420 · 2021-12-21T07:15:45+00:00

Lack of accountability is a signature of female privilege.

Roary93 · 2021-12-21T07:24:14+00:00

100% bang on with all 3 points, which are statistically backed with government data and a multitude of studies. Sadly, she seems so brainwashed by feminism that no amount of backed up argument will change her mind.

Algoresball · 2021-12-20T19:39:36+00:00

My wife and I don’t see eye to eye on all of these issues. As long as she respects you end your experiences

Yarchening · 2021-12-20T23:49:40+00:00

Tell her to look up how often young boys are "sexually assaulted" by woman as opposed to how young girls are "raped" by men. Not to mention sex offending teachers are overwhelmingly likely to be women.

Sticy_Jacky02 · 2021-12-21T09:00:55+00:00

I never discuss politics and shit like that with female

loreleiblues · 2021-12-20T22:09:17+00:00

You could show her statistics about court cases that clearly favor the woman, like for example, women are more likely to win in a child custody case, as well as "winning" more during a divorce. Same with sentencing for crimes, women tend to be let off easier.

ItWasAlwaysOver · 2021-12-20T22:13:21+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usq-IHT5ARc just watch this video. she gives a lot of statistics which show women arent held to the same accountability in the criminal courts. for example women are sentenced to 63% less time for the exact same crime as a man

hifi3xx · 2021-12-20T22:48:42+00:00

If you want to talk about accountability just do some research on prison sentences and punishment between men and women.

Joemac_ · 2021-12-20T23:31:24+00:00

just look at court cases for the same crimes

sensuallyprimitive · 2021-12-20T23:44:55+00:00

the irony is that she won't be held accountable for having an objectively bullshit belief, either

kandradeece · 2021-12-21T01:33:26+00:00

Many women dont... society has them brainwashed into believing they are the forever victim....

Legitimate-Ad-6267 · 2021-12-21T02:51:38+00:00

Depending on the victim and location, women can't neccesarily be charged for rape at all. Technically yeah, the sentence would be the same, but forced to penetrate is a form of sexual assault.

In some countries, it's a misdemeanor instead of a felony, even if the victim is a minor. If you don't know, a misdemeanor is literally just a felony but not as serious, with a less serious punishment.

AutoModerator · 2021-12-21T04:48:52+00:00

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drtapp39 · 2021-12-21T12:12:44+00:00

Just the fact that one group thinks they can openly say anything rude to someones face with no repercussions and the other knows if they smart off to much they can and will be beat up is a pretty good indicator of accountability.

Big_Dick_No_Brain · 2021-12-21T14:06:39+00:00

Ok this woman got 15 years for killing three teenage boys. She was driving drunk, it wasn’t the first time she was caught driving drunk, it was her third. She had already lost her license and had racked up somewhere between 30 to 50 traffic offenses in 2015 alone.

https://youtu.be/IJx1jHoES1A

3 counts of manslaughter and 3 counts of vehicle homicide.

Stranger_Memer · 2021-12-22T09:35:23+00:00

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

5,9% are false

But 44,9% of the time someone walk free

there is a worse issue here

Visible_Criticism_97 · 2021-12-22T17:26:52+00:00

Appreciate you alls help but as some suggested earlier there is no getting around this blind spot. We aren’t exactly doing well as a married couple and our year anniversary is coming up. To be honest I don’t know if we are going to make it to a 2 year at this rate.. we are just so far apart on most things and her inability to listen to feedback is crippling our ability to discuss and solve just about anything This discussion was just a smaller part of a whole other dynamic I suppose

Thanks for all of you alls help

JustMe123579 · 2021-12-25T02:29:06+00:00

1) There is no "accountability" involved in the men that women choose to approach. This is whiny entitlement stuff. You may as well say men are less likely to approach obese women with excessive facial hair. Like it or not, it's a marketplace out there and there are roughly as many men as women.

2) When is the last time you heard of a man claiming that he was raped by a woman? I'm sure it happens particularly with more expansive definitions of rape, but it's no surprise that the number of women claiming rape falsely and truthfully is much higher than men. Men are far more likely to be rapists.

3) This is the most valid point of the three IMO. It's true that men are far more likely to be the aggressors, but men do get beaten up and that shouldn't be ignored. In some cases men are beaten and cannot defend themselves for fear of being labeled abusers.

hunkymonk123 · 2021-12-21T00:14:53+00:00

This isn’t the subreddit for the question because you’re just going to be more validated by people with similar views.

If you want a genuine answer maybe post to something like r/feminism

(Although you might get banned like i did for asking questions)

sleepyJoeBidet · 2021-12-20T17:41:10+00:00

Well your wife is probably a reasonable individual. Not complaining about period poverty.

Title	My wife doesn’t believe that women aren’t held to the same level of accountability as men.
Author	Visible_Criticism_97
Upvotes	856
Comments	97
Date	December 20, 2021 5:10 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/rks17s/my_wife_doesnt_believe_that_women_arent_held_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/my-wife-doesnt-believe-that-women-arent-held-to.1091512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1091512

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