The specific timestamp of the feminist is here (really good rebuttals to the feminist are here and here). Not the first time for a feminist to twist efforts to raise awareness about male victims into it being bad for women. Her acting like men getting excited that we're finally getting attention on a large scale is a bad sign because "men never get excited about domestic violence unless is for misogynistic reasons" is an extremely uncharitable perspective to have on men and just highlights her misandry
There are a few people in the comments of the video saying similar things, usually to the tune of "yeah this is good for male victims, but what about women??"
"These statistics and situations invalidate women:"
...I think what she meant was men getting excited for the wrong reasons. People should be getting excited because this is a great step forward to punching back against the patriarchy and how it specifically affects men, however, a lot of times men (often men who have not actually lived through these experiences) will use statistics and situations like this in order to turn around and invalidate women's experiences. You see it all the time with the statistics that men are more likely to commit suicide and how that is often used to invalidate how women are suffering.
"I support male victims...yet people should always trust women:"
As someone who's worried about how this situation will be turned to further hurt women AND as someone who 100% has supported Johnny Depp from the beginning, I cannot stress this enough: We are not saying this case is a bad thing, it's a great thing even since it's giving voice to men victims of domestic abuse and showing society that a man - even as great as JD - can be considered a victim. We simply have a different perspective because as we scroll through social media we see that great number of male commentators are once again turning this into a gender war and saying this is proof you can't always trust women who say they have been abused. There's many men (and women) with hatred in their hearts connected to misogyny and no doubt not even a ounce of empathy towards victims in general, whether it be men or women, and jump at any opportunity to spread their hatred.
"People might use this to acknowledge other falsely accused men (which is bad):"
Problem is a lot of men although excited for the right reasons knowing this will benefit all abuse victims for the next hundreds of years, a lot of other men will use this against women and use it how some men say “think about the falsely accused men” when it comes to sexual assault. Men on the internet are typically known to say shit like this and that’s why she brought it up in the tiktok because the likelihood you’ll get a lot of them now bringing it up in every abuse case is high whether for a joke or not. So yea there are a lot of men who are going to be excited for the wrong reasons knowing they can hold this against women.
"You don't care about male victims, you just hate women and feminism:"
...men being interested in this case has absolutely nothing to do with actual male DV survivors. Men are excited about this case because they want to see Johnny win so they can have a token male DV case to throw in the face feminism and disregard violence against women. Final point, to say that Amber Heard damaged feminism--which is a generational response to continuous systemic oppression in society by men--is a ridiculous and sub-par argument to validate people's anti-feminist views. One woman being a POS doesn't disintegrate the generations of trauma each woman carries in her shoulders.
Funny how people didn't give a shit when men and especially male victims suffered for years under the narrative that domestic violence and rape are "gendered," that men are trash and women should always be believed. Whether it's a man abusing a woman or a woman abusing a man, some people will always prioritize women in any given situation
I am a man who was abused by women, and throughout my entire lifetime I dealt with people (individuals and society in general) marginalizing it. Saying "abuse by women isn't dangerous or traumatizing" and "guys aren't bothered or threatened by it." One predator was my mother so there was the additional element of "mothers always love their children and do what's best so you were probably perverting maternal affection and how dare you disrespect your own mother??"
I know a lot of other men following and sharing this case are men who are also survivors. Men abused by wives or gf's who never got support or justice. And yes, we're all excited that this case is getting so much attention because maybe it will lead to opening people's eyes to the fact that abuse is not "gendered violence." And lead to more awareness and justice for male victims
Yet of course some are trying to spin this as a misogynistic thing because "what if this makes people doubt women?" I hope it does, because I know so many men including myself who not only went through abuse by women but then had the additional insult of having people around us automatically take their side because they're women
Women should not automatically be believed over the man; a lot of us have had abusive women play the victim
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[+]Zaronax1 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link
Mutual abuse is a myth and simply doesn't exist.
Abuse is about a power dynamic where someone takes control of the other and ascertains that control constantly over them. Gaslighting, insulting, demeaning, degrading, victim blaming, etc.
Yelling at someone because they've insulted you for years, have been violent for years and have even cut a part of your finger off, isn't abuse. It's defense. Self-defense. Auto-preservation.
Anyone who says the words "mutual abuse" is doing nothing more than perpetrating a myth that denies victims the right to defend themselves - a right that is completely human. A right that most people NEED to have, because instinctually, we can feel when we're reaching a breaking point and our only instinct left is defending ourselves.
[+]KentuckyWallnuts1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
I get what you're saying and agree to a certain extent, but you can't say that mutual abuse doesn't exist. Are there people out there who snap after being abused who should be treated as a victim? Absolutely. Are there going to be couples out there who are spitefully abusive towards each other? Sure.
If someone attacks you, you can defend yourself, but if you then find out where they live and attack them a few weeks later, that's not self-defense. Same principle.
[+]Zaronax1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
No, I can absolutely say it doesn't exist.
No serious literature supports the notion of mutual abuse. None, whatsoever.
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=mutual+abuse+is+a+myth
[+]KentuckyWallnuts1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Are you some leading authority on the topic? Why would you "absolutely" deny the existence of something? How can you be certain?
Do you want the question of identifying the one and only abuser in a relationship to some sort of finger-pointing "he/she started it" game? Gravy.
[+]Zaronax1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
No, but are you?
I've literally linked to you a little thing called "let me google that for you". The results are leading experts on this topic.
Also, an appeal to authority is a solid fallacy that you should prevent yourself from ever doing. Particularly when it concerns a topic as researched as this.
And with your logic of:
you are straight up implying that all abuse is mutual because you don't know who started it so might as well condemn them both to hanging.
We've tried that in history. Several times. Where we just point a finger and go "you're guilty because fuck you" and it led to utter disasters, one of which is called "Witch Trials", another one of which were called "Inquisitions", others of which led to severe wars including the "Crusades".
You're leaping so far into your logic to defend an indefensible position that you're plainly preparing to crucify yourself on a hill rather than admit you're wrong and challenge your point of view.
But thank you! You're making the Feminists' point by arguing that Men are always abusers, since there can't be a victim according to your point of
You're brilliant! A true genius! /S
[+]KentuckyWallnuts1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm certainly no expert on it, but I'm not the one claiming the possibility of two people mutually abusing each other can't exist. Seems quite conceivable to me that it could happen, so how does someone go about proving that it is absolutely impossible? Smells a lot like bullshit. Do you sniff test anything you read, or just take it as gospel if you like the concept?
[+]Zaronax1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Because, get this, I quite literally explained to you what the power dynamic was.
Abuse is about having power over another person. There are VISIBLE differences in the power dynamic when a person is the abuser versus the abuse. So visible, in fact, that we can observe them. Case in point : The JD trial where everyone can tell who was the abuser and who was the abused, simply based on the tapes being played. Then, you even have a therapist come out and declare that "She prevented him from speaking", "She was proud of having punched him because he'd hurt her pride", etc.
It's not because YOU cannot conceive the notion of something not existing that it means it exists. Otherwise, Flat Earthers would be right that the planet is flat, irregardless of observable reality.
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