~ archived since 2018 ~

What and How?

Spodee5

June 5, 2022

12 upvotes

What was the thing you regretted the most in your divorce? How did you move on from it?

I ended up losing my home. Home ownership to me was hugely prideful for me. I have grieved this now for 5 years. I didn't chose to leave it was ordered to be sold by a judge in our final orders. My ex came out as a lesbian and this is why we divorced. The judge ordered the sale of the home so that my ex could live in her community. Also in the order it dictates where I can live to maintain my parenting time. I can not afford to purchase a home where the order has me living to stay a father.

To own a home I would have to move somewhere I could afford leave and lose my sons 11 & 8. If I changed jobs or went back to school to make more money I wouldn't meet the requirements of my parenting plan and my ex would make a motion for a major modification to take them away.

The rest of my life for the most part I have regained and I am pretty happy. This one point though I am having a tough time shaking.

What would you do? Leave your kids; pay shit tons in child support?

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Post Information

Title	What and How?
Author	Spodee5
Upvotes	12
Comments	88
Date	June 5, 2022 3:58 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/v55bti/what_and_how/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/what-and-how.1117182 https://theredarchive.com/post/1117182

Comments

[–]recce22 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]saygrace2 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JD-Anderson 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]playerknowmore 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]playerknowmore 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think your close to correct. I don't think she ever wanted out of the closet. No one and I mean no one knew. Her family, my family, all of our friends....And once I knew I knew I didn't want to be married run the risk of STDs, live someone elses lie on and on. Once your in that position people ask why you are getting divorced and you tell them. The funny thing was my ex played straight until 6 months after we were divorced. I had coworkers who were like "but no is she really a lesbian" for two years after we were divorced and she was living with a female partner.

I think in divorcing her I incidentally outed her and that she will forever be angry and forever try and ruin my life because of that. Many a murder or suicide has occurred over such situations so this is not really that hard to believe.

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You know what’s interesting about your comment and our situation. I actually repeatedly offered to move out if she would sign in agreement amicably 50/50 parenting time, the lesser of the two vehicles and 30% of our savings. To this she would tirade screaming for hours that I would never see the kids again that she wanted me gone…..in front of the kids for four months.

My attorney initially offered something very favorable and she refused and they made veiled threats in their return letter.

In the divorce process in WA state it is mandatory that you make an attempt at mediation. For 9 1/2 hours we offered concession after concession and she cried to her attorney and the mediator that she needed a child free weekend every month. I work nights on weekends because I need the pay differentials. We eventually offered her 60% parenting time, $100,000 in cash to cover her portion of the equity (this is double what she eventually got in equity), 50% of my pension and 50% of our savings, boys stay in the house with me in their schools. She cried that she needed a kid free weekend every month. That day between her and my attorney fees and the mediation fees for 9.5 hrs cost us $17,500 dollars and we came to agreement on nothing. We would have all made out like bandits in this offer financially but she pushed on legally. Can you imagine being so selfish that you don’t want more parenting time? That you don’t want cash? That you don’t want monthly payments when I are retire or die?

In the end the judge reduced my parenting time ten percent and we are 50/50. The judge ordered the sale of the house and named where we live; her choice.

She got none of my pension, none of my 403b. Savings were already way gone to attorneys.

Then two months after final orders she takes me back to court and motions to change the location we live again and won that.

I believe that the motion to control where they I we all live was to hurt me emotionally she knew that home ownership here was of huge pride to me that taking away all my tools, hunting and fishing gear, camping gear etc etc etc and forcing me into an apartment would really kill my soul.

They also wanted this neighborhood because in the elementary schools there are probably 3-4 kids in each classroom that have same sex parents and the judge liked this a lot even stating it would be good for her to live “in her community”

They (when I say they I mean her partner and her) also wanted this second choice of neighborhood because her partners a woman, is divorced from a woman. Her partner and her ex have a son. My ex’s partner lost the house in her own divorce.

So by choosing this new second neighborhood they force the ex’s partner’s ex to drive from on burb over a bridge through downtown traffic across a bridge another 15 minutes north to the boys school. Than south and east across another floating bridge to work at Microsoft. That drive is 90 mins to 2 hrs one way in good traffic. So 3-5 hrs a day in a car. They are on week on week off schedule with that child….so they forced my ex’s partner’s ex to spend an extra 50 hrs a month in a car for ten fucking years.

That’s the mindset of my ex and her partner.

I would have gladly rolled and conceded a lot to just have 40% parenting time and stay in the house. You can not stop someone from fighting you if want they want is control.

[–]upfnothing 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s true. It’s horrible and I have survived it well minus how I feel about losing my house and not being able to buy. And being forced to live in a certain neighborhood and the way she treats the kids.

My ex is a nurse manager for a large managed care health insurance company/healthcare provider here on the west coast. She manages up to 5 different clinics like Cardiology, dermatology etc etc. It was not uncommon for her to have to work late, travel for conferences or trainings.

Monday August 7 2017 she said she was working late. A friend of mine was cruising a beach area in a used convertible mustang he had just bought. People cruise the same street back and fourth when the weathers nice and people are out on the beach.

I have known this guy since I was 13 (30+ years at that time). He was one the groomsmen in our wedding.

He called and I hadn’t spoke to him for months. He told me he had watched my ex holding hands hugging and kissing this woman coming out of restaurant. He had seen her walking holding hands. And watched them walk barefoot on the sand holding hands.

I thanked him for the information.

She came home while I was bathing our sons before bed. She helped me finish. I asked how her late meetings went, who was there, what they ate on and on and on. She lied about all it right in front of the boys they were 6 & 4 at the time.

I asked her how she got a tan in her office? She told me she got it gardening during the day on the weekend while I slept between shifts. I reminded her it rained the entire previous weekend and nothing was different in the garden.

The things that went on for the next four months were horrible and would make a good lifetime movie. Oprah would love it.

Our legal proceedings while not the worst most expensive or longest were very high conflict and there are some things in our case that my lawyer who had practiced family law for 27 years at that point and is a pro tem family law commissioner (part time fill in family law judge) had never seen before or since. Like the judge forcing the sale of the house. Forcing the kids out of the house. Allowing the ex to name what school they would attend in a different district in a different city and limiting where I can live within that district to maintain parenting time. The no child support, equal decision making rights in all things and a few others.

Had a close friend in high school who’s Uncles wife pulled a similar stunt in the mid 90s; ran off with a woman left him with the kids. Then filed For divorce and got custody of the kids. His Uncle committed suicide. Had another friend who had an Uncle who’s wife left for a woman played the whole fake allegations filed enough motions against him to bankrupt him then got full custody. Boys were alienated from their father living with two lesbians who were really really crazy devout Christians. There father went on to get leukemia. He was one of the first bone marrow transplant recipients. His ex wife who left for a woman tried to reconcile their marriage during the last few months of his life. It was one of the sickest saddest things I have ever seen in a relationship. I was dating this friends cousin and she cared for this Uncle for days at a time between chemo and transplant treatments so I was close and knew the details. In fact that guy is my best friend to this very day

If I could get into the minutiae of the shit my ex and her partner pull you would be amazed. In WA if a child has dual health insurance the parent who’s birthday falls first in the calendar year is the primary insurance. The boys from birth were covered under my health insurance and no other. Two months before temporary orders hearing she added them to her health insurance. You guessed her birthday falls 17 days before mine. It’s a managed healthcare system so the insurance forces you to go to docs in their system. She then changed where they saw doctors to one of her clinics. She had her clinic employees write character attestations against me. She had them seeing an adult Internal medicine MD who’s specialty……LGBTQIA health issues. What do 6 & 4 year olds need LGBT healthcare for? Now you may think no big deal but our oldest has several health problems and needs a pediatrician, endocrinologist, dermatologist a couple times a year. He has to see a surgeon, orthopedics and vascular surgeon every two years. I have gone to more than 95% of all of their doctors appointments since birth.

You should hear about the youngest and the dentist that would blow your mind.

To be clear the boys remain on my health insurance she added hers knowing that stipulation about birthdays and primary insurance to take control. And to put me in a place frequently were there were multiple people who wrote attestations against me. Would you feel comfortable in that environment? Would you feel comfortable with your ex’s employees and friends having access to your children’s healthcare records.

Court didn’t give a shit. But I fought after court in mediation and at least got the location changed to a different clinic. I argued all these points about her making it a high conflict place for me. And her employees and friends having access to the boys records and them not even being aware or having the right to say no. I also argued it was closer to both our homes, and it was less time in the car for them. And less time away from classes

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]recce22 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Crushed_95 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah they absolutely screw with our two sons minds. Men aren't needed, men suck (great for the psyche of two young boys), fathers aren't needed because look at my partner her son has never had a dad, we moved to the city because your dad wanted to (absolute lie), we got divorced because of your dad.....nah we got divorced because you deceived everyone in your life for 40 years.

They screw with the heads of the boys so bad they don't even have a grasp on what the reality of the situation is, and can not see how badly it is effecting them. Counselors won't touch any of these issues because of course they don't want to be accused of being homorphobic by my ex and her partner.....the divorce was traumatic for them but suddenly being forced to live in a same sex household, switch schools etc etc thats all positive.. It's like an 800 lb gorilla in your living room.

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't share the same sentiment and have gay friends that are married who have kids that are doing great. Being open and honest and out prior to marriage is a much different thing than having someone sequester you in their closet for more than a decade without you having any knowledge of this.

But what I am saying about my situation is true and horrific.

There are things that come with it that no one will address. Any therapist or judge or teacher or nurse or counselor will tell you divorce is traumatic for kids a reason for them to get help in therapy.

But now try mentioning that your child has emotional issues because their parent came out, try telling a therapist or a school nurse or their teacher that they are depressed or alienated by the parent coming out.....they won't address it at all. It's a political landmine for them to be accused of being homophobic. It's a huge double standard. Can't speak to the negative actions of an individual within that community because then that individual will rally the entire community to cancel you.

Meanwhile your kid gets no help and is essentially told by the people that are supposed to help them that what they are experiencing is positive and not a problem. Holy mind fuck.

[–]saygrace2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stent00 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]pegleg_legal 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]pegleg_legal -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]pegleg_legal -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]xjeeperx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JonathanApple 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe if women want equal rights they need to have them in the family law courts as well. They should pay equally, they should not be able to lie and use false allegations; like there should be criminal charges and it negatively effect the outcome of your divorce and custody proceedings if they do. Something like 80% of divorce is filed by women. And 60% of those cases constrain false allegations…..

Alimony should be ordered for women at the same rates it is ordered for men. Child support should be ordered equally at the same rates it is for men. Yeah yeah there are state calculators but look up the percentage of women ordered to pay child Support when they are the top Earner and look up the percentage for men when they are the top earner. Women are ordered to pay a lesser percentage of the time. I believe that non payment of child support should be enforced equally. As a percentage of child support payers women are more likely to be deadbeat and less likely to have enforcement action taken against them for non payment.

Equal that playing field. Stop making men pay to be fathers. Women don’t financially pay to be mothers.

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I honestly had an amazing attorney and more than 80% of men who contest divorce in this state don't get that kind of parenting time. He has 27 years experience in family law and he is a pro tem commissioner in the family law court system here in King Co. WA.

My ex used three firms. One who does everything regarding LGBTQIA law that you can imagine even arguing cases to the Supreme Court of the US and of course they cater to LGBT divorces Skellenger and Bender. This was the attorney (Shayna Israel) that successfully argued the forced sale of the home and the maintenance of parenting time based on living within the geographic radius of a named elementary; about a 5 mile radius bordering lake washington. She also had Jennifer Miller as an attorney a retired King Co criminal prosecutor. This is the one that would throw every false allegation in the book at me; motion after motion meant to steamroll me (filing motion after motion so that your opposition bankrupts itself). Literally bullshit motions that they knew they would lose in an effort to try and bankrupt me. And she had another attorney who specialized in the release of public records. She obviously knows I am a state employee and this attorney specialized in the release of public records. My ex knew my manager is a lesbian. So they had the public records attorney file for a release of information of my personnel record and of course in the request they accuse me of being homophobic knowing that it will go to my managers desk. They also requested any and all information on my personal phone relating to my work. I had to take the time to forward every pic, text, photo etc to a public records office they redacted it and sent it to her attorney. This request was solely to add more stress as it was in pre trial phase during request for production and interrogatories phase. Her primary attorney at Skellenger and Bender requested what amounted to 9,000 pages of documentation in RFP and interrogatories and had to be delivered via hand truck. This massive request for records and tying up of my phone was done at the same time in a concerted, concurrent effort to keep me from meeting the RFP and interrogatory deadline. If I failed to meet the RFP and interrogatory deadline they then could have filed for contempt against me. The phone thing was literally just to make my life difficult hoping it would make it difficult enough that I would fail.

[–]upfnothing 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]upfnothing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stent00 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]stent00 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]stent00 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]stent00 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I read this just now and remember how awful it was when we moved here. Single dad two young boys in an elementary school. No ring on my finger. Ever single woman followed me around and hounded me with questions and I wasn't comfortable talking about it at the time.

One kindergarten mom hounded me for like two weeks about why I was divorced and I just deferred and played her off. Finally she had me in the kindergarten coat/backpack closet and my back was to a wall one day. I was grabbing my sons coat and pack and she was there diet coke in hand putting her coat and backpack on her daughter. I finally decided to answer her with my ex is a lesbian, she was sleeping around with women.....this is not the normal guy cheats on his wife divorce story.....she was mortified and surprised and she literally blew diet coke all over the back of her daughter's hair/coat/backpack.

Let all those post divorced women judge. I was uncomfortable with talking about my situation in public with new people for years. The thing that changed it was making other people laugh about it.

[–]Crushed_95 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Funny_Wolverine_9 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same. She got the court to force the boys and I out and force the sale of the house. We sold for 437K in 2019. The woman who bought it replaced windows, and added solar and sold for 688K this month. Meanwhile I went in tremendous debt to keep parenting time and was then forced into a neighborhood I will never be able to buy in. We are not amicable my ex does anything she can to cause conflict in my life even nearly 5 years out. We only communicate through Our Family Wizard. She's horrible sends boys in winter without coats go buy one...every week. Sends type 1 diabetic son without needles to administer his insulin; has all needles mail ordered to her house and refuses to send any to my house for the 50% time he spends with me. I could write a book.

I've distanced myself from her a tremendous amount and in almost every aspect I am happy. I have 50% time with our boys, great career, a new woman in my life that I love.....but two things I still struggle to come to terms with the house/not owning one/not being able to buy one and the stuff she does to the kids to be horrible towards me.

[+]Ok-Possibility-5342 -8 points-7 points-6 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Remarkable-Potato21 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree and disagree. I'm the product of divorce and the system fucking fathers. My dad chose to be a part of my life and not pay support. That decision completely traveled with him most of his life, drivers license suspended, debts, lawyers, mental load. But at the end of the day 19 years later from when he got kicked out. I embrace him as a father that was always there for me and he still is to this day and my mother is buried...it's a hard truth but that man taught me so much and still couldn't prevent me going into a marriage to pending divorce now. I owe him alot. I'm still in my home and stbxw moved out. I changed the locks. I took my life back. He guided this way and I hope anyone going through the struggle can muster the strength to see that you are right. You are the number 1 priority and it will come back 2 fold for your relationship with your kids.

Edit. My father gave my mom the house he built. He gave up his ego to see that even if he could save the home for himself it wasn't worth it. We weren't removed and I later inherited the house to sell to buy my property I own now and have not failed, so far, in keeping to raise my daughter...probably a fluke but I call it guided intuition...my mother was sleeping with her lawyer and rained hell on my father for years till he was able to bring proof and got that mofo disbarred and my mom broke up with him the next day..the irony

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]david10277 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Spodee5[S] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]pegleg_legal -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]NothingIsEverEnough1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]ndeniably 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JonathanApple 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]NothingIsEverEnough1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Home ownership here was a lifelong dream for me. My children were born and raised in that house. They miss their bedrooms. They miss their playroom. They still miss it. They still miss their yard. They still miss the park that was a block a way. They miss the friends they had there. The school they went to. We had pets. Now we rent we can not have pets on our lease. There is no yard. The area my ex has mandated we live in per parenting plan sucks like homeless people less than a mile away so they don't really go out an play.

I've lost and have nowhere to put my hunting gear, reloading equipment, most of my old camping gear, tools, workbenches.....a whole lot of who I am as a person was lost.

I looked forward to someday framing a shed with my sons, a deck, we had already done 208 ft of fence and was looking forward to them helping with that. Teaching them to grow vegetables in a garden...nope!

Also I will likely never own another home in this region because of the difference in home prices from when I bought vs now. I was also considering leaving the house as an inheritance to the boys.

[–]NothingIsEverEnough1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spodee5[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NothingIsEverEnough1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

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