Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t. Women complains that man keeping it professional at work makes her and other female coworkers feel uncomfortable

Cfwydirk · 2023-02-16T08:35:11+00:00

Crazy shit. You almost need to keep a journal of interactions and reasons why you are not social. One of my male colleagues made a mild inappropriate comment to me. A sensitive lady overheard it from 30 feet away and reported him to HR. To me that is exactly what a hostile work environment is.

Most men I know just ignore inappropriate comments. Some people are conditioned to be overly sensitive.

Edit: someone ask what was the comment. My colleague Calle a woman a witch with a capitol “B”

WeEatBabies · 2023-02-16T09:12:46+00:00

So this is how feminists react when you don't give them power over you.

This guy 100% reads this sub and know what's up.

So ... Hi Dan, keep up the good work, keep your head down, steer clear of trouble.

NootNootMFer · 2023-02-16T09:59:04+00:00

All the reasons off the top of my head that he might keep to himself:

He has had work related drama with female coworkers in the past

He has a significant other and this is one of their boundaries

Past trauma involving women

He can see that your group is trouble and you are proving him right

He is on the spectrum and cannot understand female social language

He finds you dull

This is a great range of possibilities. For me at least, I simply don't go beyond cordial and professional with female colleagues because private relationships with men and women are completely different.

You see if it's a dude and I try talking to him, but we don't have anything in common, yeah, whatever. A bit awkward but nobody's going to care, least of all the two of us. We'll probably just go back to short courtesies.

If it's a woman, it's a completely different ball game. This is a post-#MeToo world where men have to be a lot more cautious now. Women will be the first people to say that not intending to harass a woman does not necessarily mean you did not harass a woman.

I don't like guessing games.

PuertoRock007 · 2023-02-16T08:39:44+00:00

I actually see this a lot. Many women want to manipulate men at work and just can't live without attention.

Dry_Amphibian_4441 · 2023-02-16T08:58:50+00:00

Oh God, that's the thing with these types of women. You pay them any attention, then you're some creepy perv, and if you don't, oh well, how dare you ignore me. The post was removed, but I give credit, though most of the comments were roasting her big time.

ruck_my_life · 2023-02-16T11:47:08+00:00

Maybe the best use case for remote work. None of this office bullshit. We see each other only when a meeting warrants it. There's no passing in the hallway, sharing an elevator, standing next to each other getting coffee, dropping off paperwork, etc. There should be no ambiguity about why we're talking. There can be no mistaking that there is no agenda besides work - implied or otherwise - on either side of this equation.

LordBogus · 2023-02-16T09:47:43+00:00

Its all a powerplay. Nothing more. The whole 'movement' has been a powerplay. They are moving the goalpost constantly. They want everything. They want to be the boss yet don't want to make the hard decisions.

Guys, you should just do whatever tf you wan't cause there is no winning anyway, might well enjoy yourself

2023-02-16T11:46:25+00:00

This isn’t even necessarily a gender issue (although it disproportionately affects men) this is an issue of entitlement.

You are not entitled to someone’s friendship or compassion. Much as the feminists chant this within the online dating sphere (and I agree with them on that point, you’re owed being cordial by rights of being human, but nobody has to humour anything above that if they don’t want to).

So what if the guy wants to focus on work and work alone? You are not entitled to demand a certain level of interaction from him that has nothing to do with the productivity of the job!

This reminds me of a situation many years ago but weirdly it was a bloke flinging this at me. I choose to keep my work interactions to work, always have. I have enough friends that I care to have outside work and when I’m at work, I want to focus on getting shit done rather than making superficial pals.

This guy somehow got it into his head that because I wasn’t down for sharing my life’s story with him and kept things curt, I must have hated him, and he tried the whole “hostile work environment” angle as well. The guy in question was gay, and tried to push that as the reasoning on my part. Absolutely no evidence of homophobia on my part and not helped by the fact that I had a very good working relationship with several openly gay individuals in that workplace.

Ended up making a complete prat of himself in the HR summons we had to sit when I fenced the question of why he had decided that me sharing my personal life details with him was so important to him getting his job done properly. I never said a negative word about the guy to his face or otherwise. I was just focused on my job. In truth my hesitation was this guy was known gossip and I had continually heard him talking this or that about people behind their backs and I wanted no part of being fuel to his fire.

Ironically after the whole thing was waved away and he was put back in reality, it is THEN I decided “you my friend, are a twat” but still, never influenced my behaviour towards him.

Let me choose who I want to be friends with and not. I don’t think that is some outrageous demand.

Merebankguy · 2023-02-16T09:47:39+00:00

This is why western women are confused. So many times they have said men must leave them alone and not cross any lines. Here we have a guy doing exactly that and it's still a problem.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-02-16T15:33:09+00:00

Reactions to that post were quite good though.

My only worry is that the dude might be accused of SA in retaliation. And since it would be a whole group doing that, he'd be toast.

2023-02-16T10:59:32+00:00

In all fairness, everyone is reading her the riot act in that thread.

az226 · 2023-02-16T14:43:27+00:00

I guarantee you he is attractive.

DueCartographer9215 · 2023-02-16T14:58:07+00:00

I don't know how any man can remain hopeful when bullshit like this keeps happening.

Just concentrate on bettering yourself. The main reason feminists push all this bs is because of their inferiority complex...which they have for a good reason.

TheGrandScheme3 · 2023-02-16T11:06:00+00:00

So the man is keeping things professional in the work environment. I fail to see how this makes women uncomfortable when they can report a guy to HR for no reason

hawkeyepitts · 2023-02-16T16:29:09+00:00

It’s all about having power over you, and manipulating every possible scenario in order to achieve that.

Angryasfk · 2023-02-16T21:19:04+00:00

Most of the comments were quite good. But there were two claiming he must be a “misogynist”. Clearly feminists. The same ones claiming men had “no reason to fear #Metoo” and that all you needed to be was “polite and professional” at work and not overstep boundaries. Well here’s someone apparently doing just that, and these girls are whinging about it and talking about moaning to HR (it would be an embellished compliment I’m sure), and two feminist hags back them.

No-Froyo7425 · 2023-02-16T08:47:07+00:00

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays.

Decitriction · 2023-02-16T14:19:13+00:00

Nothing creates a hostile workplace more quickly than complaining to HR.

This one is 100% projection.

Trev6ft5 · 2023-02-16T20:32:43+00:00

Feminists just hate men and will find any lame justification. That's why appeasing never works, just focus on worthy individuals and deprogram them and don't put up with the BS if they want to remain in your inner circle. The rest... just shake you head and point and laugh with others on your wavelength.

The guy they're describing seems to have his shit together and would cause a big stink if HR tried finishing him without a good reason. In the workplace it's who you know not what you know. I wonder how these women would react if all the male staff starting blanking them over putting this on the net as retaliation.

Good to see the relationship advice sub is giving the OP shit for it, even the hateful feminists that inhabit that place don't have any wiggle room to back her up on that one.

Derpalator · 2023-02-16T11:43:00+00:00

Don't let them get in your head. Use your brain.

Njaulv · 2023-02-16T15:30:50+00:00

Reminds me of a story from suppporthefalselyaccused where a bunch of women were in the breakroom just trashing men for the existence of sex workers like strippers, prostututes, porn actresses, women with onlyfans, etc. Then actually came up to him, asked his opinion, and he disagreed with them that it is just because men are trash, and said in the cases where women choose to do that work it is up to them as they are autonomous beings and they are exploiting men for cash as much as men are exploiting them for sex. If anything to do with exploitation it is mutual exploitation. They then started shitting on him and calling him a creep then left and gave him the cold shoulder after that. He actually got fired within the week because every woman there went to HR and made shit up about what he actually said.

These were people that up until that very conversation were always pretty friendly and talked about various things with him and the other guys. He happened to be the only guy in the breakroom at the time though.

lastlaugh100 · 2023-02-16T16:59:00+00:00

"Hi all I'm posting this on an alt because I know a few of my friends are following me on here and I don't want this spilling out until I have some clear thoughts on what I want to do.
TL,DR; A colleague (27M) joined our firm last year and since then he has had zero issues socialising with the guys we work with but always finds an excuse or says no to hanging out with the girls after work, even if we go out together as a whole he rarely talks to us and its making some of my friends uncomfortable.
So early last year our firm hired Dan (27M). In the first few weeks he was really quiet and didn't talk much and that's just how we thought he was. Every conversation with him was short and to the point and never deviated from work, asides from pleasantries (Have a nice weekend etc). About 2 months in he started becoming a bit more friendly with the guys in our office and they would hang out every so often and have normal conversations. However, whenever any of the girls in the office tried to do so he would quickly change the conversation back to work or just not reply. Even now after a year of Dan working with us he straight up refuses to socialise with the girls in the office and it is making them feel uncomfortable. He avoids any discussion of himself outside of work related events and future plans and doesn't ask any of the girls either. Where as he is, what I can only assume, pretty good friends with the guys in the office.
Even on work meals out to celebrate events he is only doing the bare minimum when it comes to conversation with the girls where again with the guys he talks to them like there is no problem whatsoever. I don't know if I'm overreacting but one of the girls is considering go to HR about this because she is saying its creating a hostile work environment. Dan treats us like he treats clients we work with; cordial and strictly about business and its wearing thin now.
Any advice is appreciated."

lmfao

BeepBeepYeah7789 · 2023-02-16T08:28:54+00:00

I heard about this when SSM did it as a video.

Total insanity.

Gazmeister_Wongatron · 2023-02-16T13:58:25+00:00

Well, if nothing else, the fact that 100% of the comments are in support of the poor guy, who has done nothing wrong and is just trying to get on with his job, has restored my faith in humanity a little.

ANUS_CONE · 2023-02-16T17:14:18+00:00

You know when this woman goes to HR, the story that they're going to get is not that he is "cordial and pleasant but just doesn't want to socialize with us". 100% they are going to say that he is making them feel unsafe at work. Somebody will probably even cry and recount a trauma story that has nothing to do with this situation or the man himself.

stupid_pretty · 2023-02-16T15:55:26+00:00

The man they're blasting is exactly the way a male co-worker should be, especially if he doesn't want accused of sexual harassment and/or he's married/in a relationship.

Adeptus_Gedeon · 2023-02-16T10:35:20+00:00

I remember such an example from "ethics" training at work. There was a soccer team at the company. A new employee came to the company. Conclusion - male employees should resign from the team, because of it female employee feels alienated.

Melohdy · 2023-02-16T12:11:47+00:00

Thing is, he can't get in trouble for being professional. Keep it up.

macrian · 2023-02-16T16:54:59+00:00

At least the comments in the post had a proper reaction to her rant

dibberdott · 2023-02-17T19:49:59+00:00

I think the dude is so cool. It is very difficult to do what he did, (being strictly professional) , way to go. I feel he is completely safe from issues. Got to have proof and witnesses. But not always.

True story, I was working in a pharmacy with a pharmacist, we was in the same section filling scripts and it was only the two of us. He was like 65 at the time and said a quiet joke to me , He said Hey Jim, guess what my girlfriend said to me this morning? I said what? He says, Not again. I said I hope my wife is saying that to me when I am 65. Haha, right. It was just the two of us. We got turned in for sexual harassment by a female co-work that I swear was standing a good 25ft away at the coffee pot. She must have had bat ears. It wasn't even towards her or about her or nothing.

That is when I changed, never again. I stopped chatting, sharing, acted just like the guy in the post. I never commented or responded about makeup, clothing, children, dating, nothing from then on. That was over 30 years ago. Damn I had a wife and newborn at home, I needed the job, I did move on, but never forgot .

To answer the question a ridiculous work environment like that he knew something was coming. His buddies would have said something. Lots of quality secret camera and recording devices out there. If the job was a career ender with this environment then what is it worth to you to cover your ass. This is the same advise I gave to a female friend who was getting creeped on by a boss. Video is a gift from god.

Adeptus_Gedeon · 2023-02-16T10:36:46+00:00

"Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t" This is fundamental principle of leftism. If You are not member of some "minority", You are always guilty. Irredeemable Original Sin.

Magical-Hummus · 2023-02-16T13:04:08+00:00

Sounds like classic office work.

Luckily work-from-home is becoming more common.

9pmt1ll1come · 2023-02-16T15:31:03+00:00

I know the post isn’t about simping but literally it all comes down to men simping unhinged for years now. This behavior needs to stop.

MattR9590 · 2023-02-16T16:32:29+00:00

It’s always been damned if you do damned if you don’t with women

Stovepipe-Guy · 2023-02-16T17:37:45+00:00

Talk about maturity in the face of petty feminism squabbles

Way to go Dan!

Acceptable_Visit604 · 2023-02-16T19:42:43+00:00

Simple matter of self reflection

Feminists caused this

alclarkey · 2023-02-16T20:32:36+00:00

My guess is, that the guy is somewhat attractive, and the women are getting mad because he's not paying them any attention.

Morden013 · 2023-02-16T20:42:39+00:00

The men should do what they need to do. The women will either make a full-circle or they won't.

If they didn't constantly shit on everything men did, men wouldn't even give it one single thought.

Vespasians · 2023-02-16T22:06:51+00:00

How much are we betting this man looks like he's carved from marble by Aphrodity herself?

-FrankenBerry- · 2023-02-17T04:11:49+00:00

Many women have been groomed to embrace victim culture and are unhappy in any other role.

Drekalo · 2023-02-17T06:00:47+00:00

Men have always been the primary victims of Maternal Mortality. They lose their mothers, their wives, their sisters, their daughters.

Squint_Squint · 2023-02-19T16:09:15+00:00

I had an issue similar to this when I worked for apple. I'm not a social dude and due to me living in Portland I know my personal beliefs don't match up with the VAST majority of others and from my experience they tend to be on the side of "if you don't believe in the same shit political we can't be friends" not a fan of this but whatever. So due to this I made very few friends there but I kept it professional and cordial. Which is keeping work work and personal life personal. Well I made friends with a few like minded dudes and we got together just to hang out. Well this lead to a whole thing of problems where now the rest were complaining that I didn't go out with them cause "I'm too cool for them" and shit like that. They drink, I do not drink nor do I in generally like being around people who are drunk do to childhood trauma. But yeah I ended up quitting because HR and management were useless and they just were making it very hard to wanna come into work.

AITA-TA-unwanted · 2023-03-26T02:37:09+00:00

Female privilege... toxic femininity 100%

DMFan79 · 2023-02-16T11:02:03+00:00

I dream a world where males never glance at females, nor interact with them unless it's necessary to.

Imagine the bliss...

PopularEquipment5357 · 2023-02-16T14:59:50+00:00

Not to play the devil's advocate but it's probably a troll post to rustles everyone's jimmies. 99.99% of the commentators thinks they are in the wrong, and I sorted by controversial.

Edit: This doesn't mean that false reports to HQ aren't an issue. On a less serious offense, any comment "can be taken the wrong way."

I.e., I've complimented a Twitch streamer and said they she need makeup because they were naturally beautiful. She got offended because I was somehow assuming that girls only wore makeup for male approval. -Only in 2023.

az226 · 2023-02-16T15:33:09+00:00

My company is woker than woke, and in this situation, HR would side with the cackle of gals. I’m so happy it’s been fully remote since the pandemic.

Ambitious-Tie-8014 · 2023-02-16T23:25:29+00:00

I’m gonna start this by saying I totally agree the OP and her friends need to get over it. That’s not a problem even if they don’t love it.

I did want to say, though, that your phrase, “It’s not that every woman will, but that any woman can” is exactly how women feel about men and sexual assault.

Lolocraft1 · 2023-02-16T12:42:25+00:00

Don’t worry, it’s normal for this subreddit. Even feminist subreddit, even r/TwoXchromosomes think they’re out of their mind

Everyone think it’s a shitpool

TheNewMasterofTime · 2023-02-16T12:35:51+00:00

Hear me out....I understand the woman/women. Women are always pushing eachother toward the center and toward balance and harmony. And most have a very difficult time handling disharmony. If a man (or woman) is being too friendly or not friendly at all, its on an extreme, and becomes disharmonious.....creepy.

But most men are not like that. And since they were boys they were mostly with boys and boys do not work so hard to manipulate a group into a group of harmonious equals. Group dynamics are based more on what one can bring to the group, and social harmony is not much considered unless there is a serious problem, like constant fighting.

And between those two cultures, especially in a large work group, there is no way to have balance. One or the other has to dominate or there is confusion and trouble.

I am used to working in female dominated work environments....but even I am not always perfect at this. I am well aware of my tendency to withdraw and seek out space to be alone, and I know that makes women feel they are being avoided (they are) and that its due to there being something wrong with them (there isn't...I just need privacy, space and quiet). And while this is a source of tension, I know I am doing it and so I have strategies to make up for it.

So I don't really feel that anyone here is "wrong". What I do feel is that those people can't work together because one is kind of too male and the other is kind of too female.

So what does it come down to? It comes down to one feeling the need to complain and the other not feeling a need to complain. So I would tell the complainer to go find a work environment more suited to her and wish her good luck.

ehWoc · 2023-02-16T13:26:47+00:00

I mean, it would be uncomfortable to anyone if someone avoided being simply friendly to their colleagues of certain demographic group, right?

Cranium_Internum · 2023-02-16T10:49:50+00:00

There is simply no winning anymore.

MRA making generalizations about women in the society as a whole from a Reddit thread which has 0 upvotes, removed by moderators and 99% of comments disagreeing with it.

There is simply no winning anymore.

drillluminati · 2023-02-16T22:36:31+00:00

Fucking what?

better-call-mik3 · 2023-02-16T22:54:38+00:00

Comments are locked so I can't roast this entitled feminist which sucks

DoctorStorm · 2023-02-17T00:33:39+00:00

Damn I love being self-employed. I'd rather liquidate and live in Jamaica than ever enter the work-force here in America.

DeeLowZee · 2023-02-17T01:46:52+00:00

And women wonder why dudes would prefer to not work with them. You can't be the perpetual turd in the punchbowl and then complain when you stop getting invited to parties.

2023-02-17T02:49:45+00:00

I envy the comments that thought HR would just laugh at it. They underestimate what it means to live in a world of lies.

ERiC_693 · 2023-02-17T04:01:40+00:00

Sounds like Henry Cavill lol.

He's essentially 'based' and he's correct.

This silly feminist is angry because he sees through her and the fact that she is posting this means he's correct. It's also placed in "relationship advice" which is a dead give away. These feminists are not hard to spot. Men need to be really vigilant in offices like that.

I had a female lecturer in college who was 27 and I was 28. I never emailed her, never asked her anything and never talked to her after class. I know she spotted all this because she would look at the floor when I saw her in the hallways. Always avoid!

Waratah888 · 2023-02-17T04:16:15+00:00

That post had to be a fake one right?

QuartzGargoyle_2022 · 2023-02-17T04:27:02+00:00

I miss the good old days when you went to work and...worked. The hen party social club gives women a bad rep. Sorry guys, not all of us are like that.

aknabi · 2023-02-17T07:00:37+00:00

The “hopeful” part is that there’s a ton of comments and every one of them slam these women hard for their behavior… the key to getting to normal is having rational women come down hard and simps to stop trying to win being doormats to these types of people (and the reverse for d-bag chads)

_BlueShark87 · 2023-02-17T12:04:48+00:00

TBF, literally all of the comments are yelling at OP to leave the guy alone, Karen’s will be Karens

pacsatonifil · 2023-02-17T13:31:35+00:00

Imagine if a man went to HR because a woman is professional with men and friendly with women. Insanity. Maybe he feels comfortable with men. Maybe he is gay. Maybe he has been falsely accused. Maybe it’s his damn business. Drama always and you know I’m not above some gossip but this petty dramatic nonsense is infuriating. He owes no one nothing!

McGauth925 · 2023-02-17T18:57:35+00:00

...all good until you got to the part where you suspect. Then, it becomes pure prejudice.

Waste_Spare_1722 · 2023-02-22T21:08:02+00:00

This chick is super-creepy. Glad I work from home.

Creatural_Shade · 2023-08-03T04:40:47+00:00

I almost think that the OP (the woman complaining about the man not talking to her) might be a trolling post. However, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that this sort of thing would happen. Hell, it probably happens a lot, but posting about it on Reddit (in relationship advice no less) seems a little suspicious.

I guess there's no way to know for sure. The anonymous profile makes it a little bit suspect as well.

I will say that if this is real, then it's toxic femininity in the extreme. I'm a tall handsome dude and I used to be really bad at talking to women so I just wouldn't do it and I think it did make women uncomfortable... not as uncomfortable as it made them when I did try to talk and came across like a bumbling dork who had no game.

I really had to learn to play to my strengths and eventually I did figure out how to be charming and to come across as desirable.
Now as a man in my mid 30's most women are happy if I just leave them alone and I'm happy to oblige them.

I've been in a bunch of trainwreck relationships and my synopsis is that romantic relationships are highly overrated. At least within certain groups in our population. My stepbrother was MGTOW for years and he ended up marrying a girl from the Dominican republic who is ten years younger than him and very traditional. I hope it works out for him in the long run. He seems happy. I haven't met his wife yet but from what he tells me about her, he seems to have made a wise choice for himself. A woman like that is more in line with what he wanted, and he is the kind of man she wanted as well.

Damned if you do damned if you don't... Yes, in my experience, but maybe it's just our postmodern culture here in the west still getting it's footing. We are growing and changing as a culture and unfortunately the strict political divides have put men and women on opposite sides sniping at one another in a culture war that is blown way out of proportion by social media and the like.

Men were creeps towards women for many many years in many many ways. Now women are getting the upper hand in some ways and I think that without any institutional foundations in place to ease the transition to a more balanced social framework, the whole thing is erupting into chaos where no one seems to know how they are supposed to act towards one another.