Is the marriage counselor playbook completely sexist?

Facers70 · 2021-04-13T15:43:28+00:00

Yes, but not for the reason you think.

The purpose of marriage counselling isnt to right the wrongs in the marriage, its to "fix" the marriage so it lasts.

Where the woman is the problem, its easier to blame it on the man, and get him to change his response, than it is to explore the womans behaviour and get her to change.

So, if shes acting like a total bitch the approach will be to change your reaction to it, rather than calling her out on her behaviour.

Its a total waste of time and money.

sandman200 · 2021-04-13T15:56:20+00:00

It’s not been my case. My counselor was in the fix couple communication camp. She worked on how we could better communicate without placing blame or being defensive.

Now my ex wasn’t interested in improving her communication skills. She didn’t want to do exercises like reflection (just repeating what I’m feeling, no acknowledgement of blame or responsibility.) so she quit going. I knew then where the problem was.

vector5633 · 2021-04-13T16:52:33+00:00

Fuck marriage counseling. People say that once you're in marriage counseling, your marriage is already over.

dday_throwaway3 · 2021-04-13T15:39:49+00:00

Marriage counseling is a WOMBAT: waste of money, brains and time. Women will only agree to counseling as long as the counselor agrees with them. And the counseling industry was created to cater to women.

internetTroll151 · 2021-04-13T16:40:24+00:00

Yes. My counselor focused nearly entirely on me. My ex rarely spoke. Instead of focusing on her actions, I had to change my reaction. Instead of focusing on her lack of communication, I had to change.

The look on the counselors face was priceless though, when my ex admitted she had been lying at every session and had been having an affair for months.

DeaconYermouth · 2021-04-13T18:27:56+00:00

The only marriage therapy that has been scientifically supported (not proven) to work is the Gottman method. A certified Gottman therapist is actually just as likely to tell you to quit wasting your time and go ahead and divorce now as they are to try and help you “fix” things. Women hate Gottman because it isn’t gender biased and focuses on statistically proven facts...if you do this then you have a 85% higher chance of divorce. They meet with the couple individually first and then only after taking multiple assessments do they meet with the couple together. It is intensive but they focus on facts and are supported by real science. Anything else is a complete WOMBAT and designed to keep women happy in the marriage (since the vast majority of divorces are initiated by women). They really don’t care about fixing the underlying problems and only how you can deal with them to the point that it prolongs the marriage (their measure or success).

gigachadhd · 2021-04-13T23:25:28+00:00

focusing on the kids, working too much and not making her a priority.

You mean, being a devoted father and provider?

sexytimeinseattle · 2021-04-13T18:16:02+00:00

Focusing on work and on on the wife is a common complaint from women.

Until it's alimony time, and then they take your income as a given.

rsmiley77 · 2021-04-13T19:51:21+00:00

I totally disagree. First off how many sessions did you go through? Sometimes you have to allow the therapist to go through their reads and progressions just like a qb.... you may very well be giving up on the plat before it’s fully played out.

So let’s start with a truth. Women can nag better than we can. Nagging is offensive. You’re now playing defense. So if you’re not prepared. If you’re not able to convey an adequate defense to their complaints.... of course the therapy session is going to focus us you. And the other side will continue to score points.

So how do you stop this cycle? Be prepared... listen to the other side’s complaints. Run your thoughts back to friends and even other women to get their thoughts.

THE OP remarks that they’ve now been to three marriage counselors. What may be happening is that you’re stuck in this loop where you change and the nagging complaints (the play) start all over again. However many sessions you’ve made it through try with your next to triple the sessions. Take notes about all the nags. Take notes on what happens during those times that’s the source of the nag. Have your counter arguments ready. Put the other side on defense.

Finally to answer your question, my now ex ran from counseling after the fourth session because all of a sudden the focus changed to her. It took a little bit of time but I was prepared. I had well thought out replies to any of her nags and had important issues and topics that I countered with. We are men and where the other side wants to use emotion... we use logic. Used right, their arguments and nags crumble under the crap foundation their built on.

In the end my marriage still ended up in divorce. The important thing is this. The same skills you need in marriage counseling, you’ll need going through the divorce process. Yes attorneys can help but you may find yourself like me.... on the stand having to testify. In the end hundreds of dollars a month simply comes down to one question. Are you the more believable party? I was married for 19 years... final judgement was no alimony and state formula for child support. I guess I was the more believable party. 😁

jnuttsishere · 2021-04-14T00:21:11+00:00

I’ve only been to one but that was my experience. Validated my wife for gas lighting me. After 7 or 8 sessions I told him I’m not going to pay for him to give my wife a free pass to treat me like shit while I have to be an angel. He was offended. Fucks given: 0

letak2018 · 2021-04-13T16:51:10+00:00

The only counselor that my ex didn’t like was the one who was pretty fair about our respective communication problems and hang ups. The ones who would go along with the “pile on the dude”, she loved.

We’re divorced now. I got the kids after a psych/custody eval. I’m happy.

capn_KC · 2021-04-13T16:11:45+00:00

It's my belief (after doing a lot of self-study) and there aren't enough marriage counselors who are experienced in counseling couples as an entity in and of itself (as one flesh). I read Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting, and those books weren't particularly gracious to counseling for the very reason you state.

So, what I can tell you is this - if she says she doesn't feel like a priority in your life compared to your other priorities, than that's how she feels. It's not wrong, it is what it is. We as men think that if we're good providers and super-Dads that we're doing our jobs well, but we have to be careful not to put our marital relationship on pause while we work and Dad.

So, I want to lead you to a few resources that were really helpful to me. They didn't save my marriage, but they made the divorce easier on me, and I'll be ready for the next relationship in ways I wasn't ready for in my marriage.

First, the aforementioned Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting. DR is actually the second book, but I read it first, hence the reason I name it first. I really liked The 5 Love Languages, and if you want a fun activity with your wife, the two of you should go online together to https://www.5lovelanguages.com/ and take the love languages quiz, watching each other as you take it and fill it out, so it leads to discussion. You'll find out what languages you can speak that help your spouse feel your love for her, and vice versa. The last one is a doozy, and it doubles as a marital ministry, Emerson Eggerichs' Love & Respect. I'll tell you that women sometimes have trouble with elements of the book because it's based on the Biblical and scriptural definitions of marriage, and modern day society doesn't like the supposed imbalance between man and woman, but if you delve into it deeper you'll find that the imbalance is smaller than everyone believes and mainly is called upon during times of conflict. Readers may not understand that we, in a relationship, constantly submit to each other and that it's a back and forth. I've augmented the book with their online academy where it's explained much better in a ten hour seminar.

Lastly, there are two podcasts I really like, the Love And Respect podcast (yep, Eggerichs) and Save The Marriage with Lee Baucom. If you invest 6 months in the resources I've prescribed, you'll have a completely different marriage on the other side of it.

b757pilot · 2021-04-13T19:46:51+00:00

My same experience. The women controls the purse strings. Meaning, If I turn her off the money stops.

Snowbirdy · 2021-04-14T02:27:50+00:00

I had a completely different experience. Both times the marriage counselors were women.

First marriage, it took one session for the counselor to side with me and spend the next several sessions telling my ex-wife that she needed to actually make time for date night and put energy into the adult part of the relationship. She refused to go anymore after about half a dozen sessions.

Triumph of hope over experience, second marriage, counselor was Gottman trained as one of the other posters mentioned. Within two sessions the counselor had identified that ex-wife number two was borderline and within a half a dozen sessions had helped me realize that ex was lying about changing her behavior.

There is not going to be a third divorce.

Both times, I felt vindicated. Who is selecting these counselors? If it’s your wife, there may be some bias being introduced into the process.

2021-04-14T03:39:18+00:00

We went to a couples' therapist who said very clearly that she's not there to save the marriage. She was there to guide us to the healthiest relationship possible. She said she was equally prepared to help us reconcile or divorce.

I (40M) was validated and eventually vindicated by the CT. My wife hated being called out while I apologized and tried to make up for things I had done wrong. Eventually, when she moved in with her adultery partner, she stopped attending. I kept going, trying to "keep the light on for her", but now the CT is basically helping me cope with the betrayal trauma of my wife's affair.

I chose a better couples' therapist than I did a wife.

WartimeDad · 2021-04-13T15:42:08+00:00

I believe there are two “schools.” One in which they validate the woman, to the detriment of the man. One in which they focus on making the couple better at communicating. You need to find the second school. Typically they will be younger.

I’ll tell you this: neither work. You and your spouse both need to be willing to do the hard work to be better communicators. This will strain an already strained marriage.

I’m cynical as fuck about marriage counselors because they don’t seem to have a clue. They so commonly validate the wrong party and make recommendations that can’t be fulfilled. They act wise and all knowing but they are only there for $ and once the time is up they leave you stranded trying to pick up the pieces.

So yeah man I feel ya.

Ski3po · 2021-04-14T05:41:43+00:00

I (we) went through a number of them. Male (1), female (5); all ages. They rarely seem to have much of a playbook. The two good ones (older woman, middle-aged man) didn't really take sides. Had very different approaches. I felt I got some good communication skills for work/life out of some. I actually think marriage counselors engage FAR BETTER than the personal (one-on-one) I've seen (where there's a lot of silence and no direction). You definitely need someone sharp. My ex is a legit sociopath. That can be difficult to sort through for a counselor. Kinda impossible, actually. And it's why I felt like I did what I could and finally gave up two years ago.

kapriece · 2021-04-13T16:04:20+00:00

In my experience with it, you leave the sessions having been blamed for everything. Our society down to social sciences don't look at a man's point of view. A lot of the books women counselors study were written by men but during the sessions but the problem is you. Make that make sense. There are also books written by woman but not world reknown women from any scientific community that I'm aware of. I think it's a personal vendetta against men. I remember a counselor of some type called in to KS and tried the same BS and he dismissed her claims bc they weren't rooted in facts. She really had no answer to his questions. I wish he put her face on screen so I could send her name and video to a bar association. Only through a church counselor was I ever in the right and my ex was pissed. She took the advice for all of about a week and was right back to the verbal abuse.

tosit2019 · 2021-04-13T22:36:38+00:00

I've been thinking about a divorce for a while now. One thing that would help is just SOMEBODY to talk to about this. We moved recently and don't have much of a network in our new city. I'm thinking of solo counseling just as a way to talk through this with a disinterested party. Anyone have experience with that?

stop_saying_karen · 2021-04-14T01:29:00+00:00

My advice (as someone going in the middle of a divorce) is to first spend your time & money on your own LMFT who will help you protect yourself in a healthy & ethical way. Ideally they can also help you sort through the advice of the marriage counselor so you can decide if the sessions are in your best interest. Turned out mine weren’t.

HeHeHaHaHaHyena · 2021-04-14T05:34:41+00:00

Not here... we went to mine twice and when she did not side with my wife we never went back lol. Maybe you need to change? Maybe your wife has friends of friends posing as counselors so she can get what she wants.

Title	Is the marriage counselor playbook completely sexist?
Author	NOAFTRLF
Upvotes	37
Comments	38
Date	April 13, 2021 3:35 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/mq4q46/is_the_marriage_counselor_playbook_completely/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/is-the-marriage-counselor-playbook-completely.1188568 https://theredarchive.com/post/1188568

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