How to respond to "Men only pretend to care about men so they can derail conversations about women's issues"?

PricklyGoober · 2023-11-26T13:08:23+00:00

Well if you’re responding to something insidiously incorrect like “homelessness is a female issue”, then you can say that you’re just correcting their misconceptions. Although more likely than not you’d be blocked or insulted.

If they’re just venting, then I’d just ignore them. Although I’d like to see them not barge in with their “women most affected” energy or calling someone an incel when they discuss men’s issues separately (might be hard for these types tbh).

drtapp39 · 2023-11-26T13:36:45+00:00

Not everything is about you sweetheart. If you really can't fathom that men care about other men, and their issues, outside of it being done to affect women then you have one hell of a delusion build up in your little hateful brain"

Shuddemell666 · 2023-11-26T13:50:12+00:00

I don't honestly think there is a point in responding to people like that. They are so deep in their delusion and entitlement, that nothing will get through that fog. Sometimes it's more sane just to ignore or leave it be.

Otherwise_Amount9854 · 2023-11-26T14:04:47+00:00

Derail a convo about someone's issues? That's what women are doing all the time. The moment we men complain about a gender related issue, the women will say:

We BOTH have it hard

But it's men's fault

I don't care

We have it harder

Maybe it's because you-

It happens more to women

Don't expect us women to care when you-

And stuff like that. So if you're feeling petty, just answer them that you assumed that it's not a bad thing because of how often THEY are doing it to us. And use all the examples that i mentioned above, if necessary. Or tell them the honest truth; you don't think that they care or know about the men's issue, that you just mentioned in a conversation about women's issues, so that's why you mentioned it.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2023-11-26T16:21:27+00:00

I mean, if society were equally indifferent (or even hostile) to both men and women, we'd think, "Ok, that sucks, but at least it's fair." However, when we see one-sided concern for women (even on issues where they suffer less), we realize that the indifference (which often goes further, into the realm of hostility) only goes one way, which is not fair, so we naturally attempt to get some of the compassion that we realize has been unfairly denied to us.

EDIT: Also, there are regular news pieces and conversations about women's issues in mainstream discourse, but that's not true for men, so it's easy for people concerned about women's issues not to derail when there are tons of discursive train tracks leading towards their destination. In other words, if men's issues got regular mainstream attention, we wouldn't have to bring them up in reaction to one-sided pieces about women's issues (that, again, men probably face too, perhaps more intensely).

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-11-26T13:56:50+00:00

Sometimes you need to recognize you are dealing with an entrenched bigot or and idiot and walk away.

2023-11-26T13:23:33+00:00

Any reason for female familial homicides? Any male familial homicides?

Edit: I ask because if there are also male familial homicides, you may have some ground to stand on. Unfortunately, the murder of males is treated as matter-of-fact unless they belong to a group that people can stir up outrage over. When it's only males being killed, a female may form the opinion that "men are just bad," to make sense of the world and carry on the best she can.

However, when females are murdered, then women will believe themselves more "at-risk" since they identify as being female. What was taken as "matter-of-fact" before when it was only men, is now suddenly much more important since murder is also happening to women. It becomes a "women's issue" whereas before it was just a "men's issue;" even though both are always "people issues."

"The Diary of Anne Frank" exemplifies this process; it's not just a story in a book. I suggest everyone read it if they haven't; it's not a long book, nor is it particularly difficult. I've heard some places actually want to ban it.

ASexual-Buff-Baboon · 2023-11-26T18:07:18+00:00

These people never care to pay attention to when we are supporting each other.

Blauwpetje · 2023-11-26T15:45:57+00:00

Not. It’s not in any way a sensible, falsifiable statement. ‘Water boils at 30 degrees Celsius’ is not really more nonsensical, but it aims at facts you can give a clear counterexample of. This is just a rant and at best a (terribly unfair) value judgment.

iainmf · 2023-11-26T17:49:21+00:00

Say:

"I'm glad you think that you think male homicides are an issue, when is a good time to talk about that and other men's issues?"

Stunning_Memory8347 · 2023-11-26T21:51:44+00:00

Feminists somehow think it's okay to paint a completely one sided view of reality, then get upset when people bring much needed balance.

eldred2 · 2023-11-26T22:18:36+00:00

where there have been several posts lately about the number of women killed by family members so far this year.

Well, how many men have been killed by family members so far this year? I read a post recently that discussed an article on "femicide", and the numbers were really similar, like 80 women and 45 men. So, it's not nearly so gendered as they try to claim.

pbj_sammichez · 2023-11-26T15:09:32+00:00

"Women hate Women enough to do that. Men aren't like that. You are projecting the worst parts of yourself onto others." Then id walk away.

Drougent · 2023-11-26T20:36:37+00:00

It's funny because I feel like I'm watching these conversations evolve online more often and the fact that men are working together to counter these ridiculous points they bring up is awesome.

Men deserve to be treated as equals and pointing how ridiculous it is for women to downplay our grievances and try to derail conversation about how they suffer worse is amazing.

All in all it usually just ends with women going to their only come back of "incel!" but at least we're making it known that we deserve to be treated equally and our suffering is just as legitimate as women's.

TrilIias · 2023-11-26T17:42:33+00:00

I'm not sure of the full context, but usually it's something like this:

"This many women are killed by their male partner, domestic violence is a big issue."

By highlighting female victims, their real argument isn't just that it's a big issue, but that it's a gendered issue, it's an accusation against men, an argument that men are uniquely or disproportionately likely to be perpetrators and women are disproportionately victims.

In this context, how else is anyone familiar with the full story supposed to respond other than by pointing out that men are also victims of domestic violence at the same level? Yes, we are trying to discredit your narrative that women are "the only" or "the primary" or "the real" victims of DV, because they simply aren't. It's not derailing the feminist's real argument, it's a direct response to it. Feminists can only claim it's derailing if they try to continue to claim that their real argument wasn't that it was a gender issue, and that they just wanted to talk about female victims for a second. Of course, we would all see through that, why talk specifically about female victims if you aren't trying to paint a one-sided gendered narrative?

Now here's where I have to knock the anti-feminists a few points. If they responded t a conversation about DV with stats about homicide, then that is derailing, as the two are not the same thing. The correct response is to acknowledge that yes, more women are killed by their partners than men, but the statistics show that this is a recent phenomenon. In the 60s it was equal. Why the change? Because most violence is two-way, both partners are violent and keep escalating until it reaches the point of actual homicide, if it gets that far. In the 70s we started making shelters for women only, women could escape mutually violent relationships without escalating, resulting in a dramatic decrease in men being killed by partners. On the other hand, no shelters or services were provided to men. They're still trapped, and thus still resort to escalation. It's worse for fathers, what are thy to do, abandon their kids in the hands of a violent mother? Take the kids, and be charged with kidnaping as there are no services to back up his decision? Put of with the abuse? The number of men killing their partners has still gone down, just not as rapidly as the reverse, and it's because of the feminist narrative that DV is a tool used by men to control their female partners. This narrative has caused men to be blocked from services, remain trapped in violent relationships, and to continue to escalate.

2023-11-26T14:13:47+00:00

The idea that we only bring it up when it comes up, not that we obsess night and day like a demented feminist? You don’t say…

g1455ofwater · 2023-11-27T11:42:41+00:00

If you bring up men's issues on their own they are ignored so it's better to bring it up when women's issues are talked about because it shows the double standards. I don't care whether people that hate men don't like it, I'm not here to coddle them. In fact I believe catering to misandrists is how we got to this point in the first place.

marinesniper1996 · 2023-11-26T16:03:55+00:00

everyone has only so much capacity for what they care about, we are just yet to see mom's complaining how a random starving kid in Africa doesn't care about paying for her children's summer holiday education camp, so is it selfish to just care for what matters to us most? perhaps, but it's even more selfish to make acclamations for others who don't care about what we care, and this is for both men and women on each of the corresponding side in this conflict

trashtony69 · 2023-11-27T22:53:27+00:00

I agree that some men have the tendency to do this as I’ve seen it multiple times online. However, I see plenty more “feminists” doing the same when men are trying to bring their own issues forth separately, often stating that we can’t even have any due to being male. I think many men, including myself, have a knee jerk reaction these days because we’re used to being grouped into the same box as rapists, pedophiles and murderers. You have women saying “it’s all men” then telling us “all men” doesn’t mean “all men” and if you’re offended you’re the problem… yet when women do the same things (and believe me, female rapists are not uncommon at all when you pick apart the way the very sexist rape statistics are totalled) they fly under the radar and god forbid you generalise because only then is the sentiment understood. We have this notion ingrained deep into us that men are inherently bad and women are inherently good so I don’t blame men for becoming frustrated and reactive. It’s annoying being told to talk about your issues, then being told you can’t talk about that or too loudly, then being told you don’t have any issues at all so why are you speaking? I think this is why lots of the men that do this do this.

AwesomeBro_exe · 2023-11-26T16:05:11+00:00

Why not fling their own shit back at them? Say women don't care about women's issues and only want to derail conversations about men. The mental gymnastics will be golden

mrmensplights · 2023-11-26T20:56:29+00:00

I get where they are coming from - if you say things like that inside a conversation about something else.

However, the reality is there are no forums for men's issues. If you didn't post there then there is literally no where else to have that conversation. No one is reporting or writing about men's issues generally and when they do they recast it as a women's issue (e.g Men are struggling so much women can't find a husband they consider good enough).

I also think it's fair game to bring up when the conversation is absurd. Like if the post is about how "1 in 4 homeless people are women, this is a huge problem!" or "A little more women commit suicide this year than last year" then I think it's fair to say 3/4 of homeless are men and men commit suicide at 5x the rate of women.

The common theme is that men are ignored entirely. If we're talking about how the light bulb flickers when he house is on fire, then it's fair to call that out.

MaxWebxperience · 2023-11-26T13:36:33+00:00

I won't discuss any issues with anyone.. issues serve to divide people

Scarce12 · 2023-11-26T20:45:43+00:00

You've already won the argument at that point.

eldred2 · 2023-11-26T22:08:41+00:00

"You're projecting, sweetie."

JJnanajuana · 2023-11-26T23:56:00+00:00

They have a point, we should make our own posts specifically about men's issues (outside of this sub, where we obviously do) more often.

I will remember that and try to do so.

Inside the 'womans issues' discussions, I generally try really hard not to "derail" unless someone says something horribly wrong.

Then I bring sources.

For example I replied to someone [not sure if I am aloud to link here] who said "it's not every man, but it's always a man" (about the murder of the school teacher)

I responded that it's not always a man, with a list of examples, when it was a woman from the news from the last 6 months.

And told them to focus on this case (which was objectively horrible) instead of making wrong generalisations.

And was actually upvoted. 6 to their 80, but still.

I saw a refrence lately that 40% of Aussies think domestic violence equally effects men and women, a large increase in recent times. (study authors claimed we are wrong but) a good chunk of people are on our side, so we really should make posts dedicated to men's issues more. And only "derail" when nessasery.

Edit: nevermind, just tried to post on sub op mentioned, (same thing I posted here, (good news for one men's issue.)) It didnt get approved. "self promoted political post." I guess we have to wait for the abc to copy paste the goverment media release, slap a feminist spin on it and repost that in the sub!!! I swear all that sub is is abc reposts these days...

So the real answer is we try to make our own posts but mods don't let us.

Alarming_Draw · 2023-11-27T01:36:19+00:00

Tell them to fuck off.

If I was in a room with ANYONE who came out with such shit when I was trying to have a serious and important conversation?

Tell them to fuck off cos they dont belong in the adults discussion.

DarkRiverDrought · 2023-11-26T15:12:43+00:00

I’d start by not bringing up male homicide victims on a thread or in a conversation centered on female homicide victims.

Men need our own spotlight. We need to create and lead the conversations about male problems. Hijacking a conversation doesn’t change the focus of the conversation, it just leaves others with a negative feeling about the person who did the hijacking.

And yes, I know feminists do this. Don’t be like them. Does anyone here feel more concern about female problems when our conversations are hijacked? Nope. It’s not a successful tactic.

If you absolutely have to say something, I try to pose a question that leads people in the direction I want them to go. People like to feel like they’re figuring something out.

TenuousOgre · 2023-11-26T18:03:13+00:00

I care about truth and true gender equality of opportunity. Which means rather than only focusing on issues in a way to report gender disagreement, I think it’s better for both genders to know what the other struggles with and in what proportion. I want men to listen to women’s issues, and in today’s public sphere we hear about them continuously. And the blame is always that it’s mens fault. We are collectively held accountable for the actions of some. By pointing out that men suffer too, often as much as women, if not more, we put the focus on the individual perpetrators, male or female, rather than falsely blaming one gender for all social ills.

There are some things men suffer more than women. And some terrible things that women do much more than men do. Why don’t we talk about those? Because the focus is on gender, rather than behavior and the causes for it.

Ahielia · 2023-11-26T20:01:43+00:00

Had would YOU respond to allegations like that?

Cut those people out of my life. I do not need such blatant negative people in my life. I'd much rather be alone than spend time with such people.

LowPressureUsername · 2023-11-26T21:01:57+00:00

“Saying that is literally derailing the conversation away from men’s issues and only pretending to care about women’s issues. Stop projecting.”

Svalor007 · 2023-11-26T22:44:27+00:00

Call them a narcissist and remind them men don't want anything from women especially their opinions on men and manhood.

The world already revolves around women. Asking not to be treated like a resource to be used would be nice.

grandma_jizzzzzzzard · 2023-11-26T23:03:54+00:00

This is a thing? Men steer clear of women’s issues because men are smart.

Dapper_Beautiful_559 · 2023-11-27T00:07:59+00:00

It’s funny because the issues feminists claim to have are completely made up

hwjk1997 · 2023-11-27T00:30:56+00:00

Why should you dignify them with a response?

ChaosOpen · 2023-11-27T01:51:27+00:00

There are a lot of responses:
You throw their words back at them: "Men have never lived as women and are therefore not welcome in a conversation about women's issues, therefore I am moving the conversation to a topic we can actually have a discussion about."

You bring up trans issues: "Before we begin to talk about women, please define what a woman is."

You challenge their assertion: "Okay, if women's issues are so bad then I want to help, please tell me something men can do that women cannot."

Or you simply call their bullshit "Because women's issues cannot be fixed by giving them more privileges or allowing them to avoid responsibility, as those are the core root of the problem, women are brought up to be so spoiled and catered to that they are unable to function in a normal society."

Red_Dwarf_42 · 2023-11-27T18:20:56+00:00

I tell them that it’s insensitive as fuck to bring up male victims of homicide as a rebuttal to women talking about women who are murdered. They’re not just a talking point you try to use to derail a conversation, and it deserves its own discussion.

Also, it feels like The Oppression Olympics ™️. These discussions shouldn’t be a “who has it worse” race to the top, but a moment to bring awareness to an issue, look at the underlying causes, and think of solutions. You can’t do that in these situations, so one group isn’t given the proper attention and respect it deserves.

lumpynose · 2023-11-26T18:24:10+00:00

For me the problem boils down to the simple fact feminists and the majority of women don't think analytically and logically, they instead "think" with their emotions. Using objective logical reasoning with someone who's thinking with their emotions is a waste of time.

Felarhin · 2023-11-26T18:56:17+00:00

If we're not supposed to care about each other than why should any of us care about you?

Steelsword06 · 2023-11-26T13:05:42+00:00

I mean, is that what you're doing?

kitx38 · 2023-11-26T23:35:31+00:00

"Have you eaten yet?"

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-11-26T15:07:17+00:00

The example you gave was an example of a man doing exactly that and attempting to derail the conversation.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2023-11-26T20:27:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jbr945 · 2023-11-27T07:48:32+00:00

Even if one brings up the subject of men's issues, and especially alongside women's issues, it gets dismissed and the motives are questioned for their sincerity.

Social media is not the forum to have a coherent and nuanced conversation about anything so any hope of having one must begin elsewhere.

JACSliver · 2023-11-27T12:39:45+00:00

So when women talk about their issues do they do so to make it all about themselves? No? Then neither do men.

AntiFeminismAU · 2023-11-27T23:18:13+00:00

Firstly it’s Reddit. Secondly it’s /r/Australia. A feminist country that hates men on a social platform dominated by feminists and the left. Were you expecting any different?

Status-Associate6318 · 2023-11-28T10:47:33+00:00

I'll confidently bet that, the types of people who spew such utter nonsense as, "Men only pretend to care about men so they can derail conversations about women's issues," are the same fucking ignoramuses who believe a woman who genuinely fights for equality and holds women accountable is, "suffering internalized misogyny."

McGauth925 · 2023-12-15T22:16:50+00:00

RESPONDING TO TITLE ONLY: So, you can probably safely ignore this post.

Why bother responding? Do you actually think you're going to change the minds of a person who would say that? They already know lwhat they believe, which is that they can read the minds of all MRAs, and there will be no studies to prove them wrong.

Title	How to respond to "Men only pretend to care about men so they can derail conversations about women's issues"?
Author	terrorist_giraffe
Upvotes	226
Comments	76
Date	November 26, 2023 12:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1849u1m/how_to_respond_to_men_only_pretend_to_care_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-to-respond-to-men-only-pretend-to-care-about.1239385 https://theredarchive.com/post/1239385

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