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Low Testosterone, experiences?

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March 25, 2017
11 upvotes

Mrp,

Over the last few months I've suspected I may have low T. I'm having terrible trouble losing weight, tired, grumpy, I don't have any trouble getting it up but at times I don't have any desire even though my wife is ready to go.

Anyway, anyone here on TRT? What symptoms did you experience and how did you approach your doctor?

Edit: I've been lifting. StrongLifts 5x5 for a few months. Buckled down these past 4 weeks. Exercise 6 days a week. 3 days HIIT, 3 days lifting.

I'm very overweight. Have been my whole life, my lightest was 195, right before I met my wife (imagine that). Ballooned all the way up to 270, currently at 230. BF is probably 30-35%. So yes. I'm a fat tub of fuck.

Calories a day are around 2000.


Post Information
Title Low Testosterone, experiences?
Author prematureredpill
Upvotes 11
Comments 63
Date 25 March 2017 12:56 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/206355
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/61fe8n/low_testosterone_experiences/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
testosteronelift
Comments

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

I had mine measured about 90 days ago. Same symptoms as you. I also had almost zero morning wood, libido that was getting lower and lower, and was not confident / in control of my emotions.

I went to get it tested and it was very low, as in lower than the average for 60-70 yo men... I'm 32. Yikes. Doc said this was because I had put on a ton of belly weight, my diet was trashy, I was sedentary, I slept poorly, and I didn't manage my stress levels proactively.

So I started a regimen based on the Art of Manliness blog on the same subject. I've noticed significant improvements in all areas but I have a long way to go.

For me, raising my test seems to be based on the tripod of sleep, heavy lifting, and eating clean with a focus on healthy fats and protein. Your mileage may vary.

I'm going back in a couple weeks to get measured again. The other option was to do TRT which was not appealing to me because it is usually a permanent substitute that you are reliant on forever, as far as I could tell.

Edit: I recognize you asked about TRT. That's a valid and viable option and if you choose to go down it, be very direct with your doctor and just tell them that's what you want. If he doesn't comply, find another doctor that is willing to treat you. If you have low test, that is a HUGE drain on nearly every aspect of your life.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Could you link the blog?

[–]sixdownsevenup2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nice.

[–]Griever1140 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What were your number?

[–]Kellerdude5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

I had your typical symptoms: low energy, mild depression, packed on body fat that was hard to lose, low muscle mass, no sex drive. Wasn't interested in my wife at all. I had just turned 40 but have the testosterone level of a 70-80 year old man.

I started TRT nearly 3 years ago, and it was like being reborn. Sex drive came back with a vengeance, but I had created the low-sex marriage. My wife didn't have that switch to bring back so she was lagging behind. Which is what led me to MMSLP and then to MRP.

I hit the gym after reading MMSLP, and I go at it hard. I'm working out minimum 5 times per week, some days I'll do double work-outs and have hit the gym up to 10 times in a week. My diet is strict and disciplined.

I went from 250 lbs at around 35% body fat to 225 lbs at 9% body fat in around 2 years. That's not solely because of the TRT, but it definitely contributed to it.

TRT was a life-changer for me.

[–]WesternhagenWinner4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My experience was similar. Low energy, depressed and anxious, no sex drive, low "life mission" drive. I was not fat (have never been fat) but it was always hard for me to build muscle. My "regular" doctors (general practitioners) were completely dismissive; they said "eh low normal" not bothering to mention that I should not have the T levels of a man in his 70s. Finally I saw a doc who specialized in "men's health" and he did a series of tests that - in conjunction with my symptoms - confirmed that I had low T, and he put me on TRT. In retrospect, I think I've had low T since I was a teenager, and I have no idea why. The symptoms have certainly been around since age 17.

I started TRT almost a year ago. Inject myself once a week. My estradiol level crept up so I also take anastrozole to keep that in check. It made a world of difference in my overall energy level. Also made a world of difference to my workouts; able to go much heavier, much more often, and recuperate much more quickly. I went from "gotta force myself to go lift a couple of times a week" (and then did a shitty desultory lift) to "absolute necessity to lift four times a week" (and then lifted HARD each time). Dropped from around 230 to 185, though low carb and intermittent fasting were part of the process too. For whatever reason I have stayed at 185 for about four months now; feel like I "should" be gaining muscle but since I know I'm getting stronger based on what I'm lifting, I'm not too worried about it.

A couple of issues that low T guys may confront. Firstly, you may still have a "low T mindset" even when you raise your T levels. Higher T is not, by itself, going to cure you of "Nice Guy" tendencies - after all, even guys with high T suffer from NMMNG issues. I spent my whole life fearing to confront women (anxiety, nice guy, lack of abundance mindset) and that hasn't gone away yet. Secondly, and more importantly, changing your T levels is not going to instantly change how she reacts to you. Going "high T Rambo" is as much of a bad idea as going "red pill Rambo". It is entirely possible that she will never be able to forget the years or decades of low T, bluepill you.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the insight. I'm going to at least go talk to a dr and see what they think.

[–]resolutions3160 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

A bit off topic, but doesn't that much lifting become counter productive? Not enough time to recover and all that?

I ask because I struggle with understanding how much Rest is optional for me.

[–]Kellerdude1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes, it can. Because of my work and family schedule, it was two shorter workouts a day - about 35-40 minutes each. But it did wear me down. I was only able to do it about 3 months and then I had to back it down to one per day.

I've definitely had to do a lot of adjusting of my workout plan and diet over the past 2-3 years because of mistakes I made or things that didn't work for me. But then again, I did make a lot of progress in those 3 months of the double workouts.

[–]resolutions3160 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ahh, got it. I've been curious about trying a workout every day for the metabolic benefits, but I also know o can get pretty beat up with my current schedule (3x a week for roughly 1.5 hours apiece). Trying to figure out how much of that is legit and how much of that is mental.

[–]GongShanks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit. Nice work.

[–]JackGetsIt5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

Listen. I will get downvoted for this but that's just fine.

Stop lifting.

yup. I said it. Or severely cut back that routine. You can't cut to 2000 calories a day and go on a strong lifts 5x5 with lots of HIT and not have issues. I see this approach problem with dieters (myself included) all the time. People try to go balls to the wall on a new diet and exercise and they eventually fail.

My advice to you is to walk a lot. I mean a lot. 2 times a day 60 plus minutes; lots of water as well. Hit the gym lightly 2 or three times a week no more then 45 minutes, with almost no goals and focus 100% on diet.

Personally ketosis dieting is the only thing that got me to cut stubborn fat. Pick a goal weight and body fat percentage and read up on ketosis dieting. Be ready for extreme headaches and pain for 2-6 days as you adjust to the diet. As well as energy loss. But after that your body becomes a fat burning machine, and energy comes back like gangbusters. With all the carb and caloric heavy foods we eat today your body has probably never had to burn much fat (yes I know we are always burning a certain ratio of fat to carbs). At 230 you are lifting a ton of extra body weight as well in the gym, this stresses your joints, back, connective tissues, etc.

Since you were 270 at one point you might have had full blown metabolic syndrome as well.

So you need to not over stress your body as you slowly cut weight. If you were 19 it might not be as big of a deal to cut and lift but at middle age you need to go slower on this whole process.

After you've hit goal weight (be prepared for 3-5 months until you are there). Then slowly start picking up a more intense workout routine and when you do you need to 'increase' caloric intake (responsibly, read IIFYM) not reduce it!

The bonus with all this is regardless of testosterone levels you will simply be a lot healthier after cutting the weight and since you've been walking a ton and still light lifting your heart will be healthier. If you do want to go on testosterone at this point you will be in a lot healthier position to do it.

Good luck. Also please do a follow up post if you have some success and let us know what worked for you!

sites that may help

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/

[–]prematureredpill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

So you think my increased exercise and diet are leaving me drained?

[–]JackGetsIt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm talking a bit more about the mental side of things...What I'm getting at is there's a difference between drained and unsustainable. With both diet and exercise the benefits come after months and even years of slow progress. It took years to get to 270 and it's not going to sustainably come off after a few weeks or even months. If you think what your doing right now is sustainable and not going to cause injury then by all means keep it up.

Most friends and family I've talked about dieting with go through a similar pattern. They get a gym membership they go 5 or 6 days a week 1-2 hours a session and they cut calories severely. In a week or three they find they are miserable. That's because when you increase your energy output your body gets very hungry (regardless of how heavy you are). It wants to increase calorie consumption to offset the new energy expenditure. Most people then either give up the workout or they just go back to overeating. Then they might keep it up in the gym for months or even years but never see actual weight loss. Weight loss is done in the kitchen for the most part not the gym (unless your doing high school football practice for 4 hours a day or running marathons). Most people can't do enough crunches bench presses or treadmill sessions to truly cut much weight.

So how do we beat this 'hunger?' Again, I'm going to try to push this hard. Ketosis dieting. Ketosis diets force your body to relearn how to use fat efficiently. Almost all modern Americans have an enormous amount of carbs in their diets and almost all of these carbs are high on the glycemic index. This means that insulin is always high and shuttling glucose to the muscles and then to fat storage. Your body needs retrained on how to live on fibrous fatty foods devoid of added sugars and fast carb foods. Only after you do that will you be able to cut stubborn belly fat.

If you're interested in this stuff the Keto FAQ has a lot of material and I'd also recommend "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes. If you want a lighter read the "4 Hour Body" by Tim Ferris talks a bit about ketosis diets and has some other fun and useful fat cutting advice. The chapter on cold exposure is really interesting.

Even if you don't go full ketosis you simply need to eat better to lose weight. You need fish, fibrous vegetables and lots of water. Cut back severely or eliminate Soda, beer, white bread, corn, and anything with added sugar like candy and fake health foods (granola bar bullshit stuck together with high fructose corn sugar). You need REAL food and lots of it.

[–]sixdownsevenup1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I disagree with the recommendation for him to stop lifting, although I agree with your larger point about being concerned that there is enough nutrition for lifting. I have experience with both zone diet and intermittent fasting type diets (specifically, recently, the Warrior Diet but I got a lot of tips and info from http://www.leangains.com/) while continuing SL5x5 and made OK progress (considering my hormone issues) while losing wieght (squats from bar weight to 205lbs which was just under 1x body weight).

I think that lifting is still critical, but you have to consider dietary intake when planning lifts. For me, I take a high-quality Branch Chain Amino Acid Supplement (BCAAs) (Xtend BCAAs Pineapple is my favorite) 7g 30-45 min before lifting, 7g directly after, then 7g about an hour after lifting. This, along with some high-quality low-glycemic index carbs in the hour or two after lifting should allow for strength increases (if not lean mass gains) while cutting body-fat. Of course, in any case, keeping a reasonable protein intake.

I don't have experience with keto, so don't misunderstand my comments as being against it - I just can't comment from a position of experience with it (it does hold some appeal to me).

EDIT: Totally agree with your point about him losing weight and being healthier before making a decision about HRT assuming that is an actual issue for him.

[–]JackGetsIt0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I second the leangains website. There's some good information there and I've had luck with his fasted training advice. That being said I don't think OP who was at 270, is going to benefit from BCAA's or timing his carbs after workouts until he's at a healthier weight in general. In addition any hard work he puts in at the gym isn't going to be seen if he's 30 or even 20 percent body fat.

As mentioned in my post I'd think he'd see more sustainable results if he only lifted lightly for 2 or 3 days and focused completely on diet. If he has the discipline and safe lifting procedures to go 5 or 6 days and cut calories... more power too him; but I don't see a lot of people that are successful with this plan. Especially with an intense routine like 5x5.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I totally agree with the recommendation to cut back to 2-3/days per week. If he is Low-T/Free-T then recovery is going to take a lot longer.

EDIT: Fair point about the BCAAs and carb timing relative to OP's present condition.

[–]duhhhh2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I felt awful. Asked primary to test Testosterone, Thryoxine, Thyroid Stimulating Hormone. All three were messed up. My primary said I was fine and to come back for a retest in six months.

I took the teat results to an endocrinologist that did something about it - Hashimotos test, lifetime of Thryoxine, and 9 months of starting and slowly tapering off clomiphene citrate to get T levels normal. I'd suggest you see an endocrinologist first. You may not need lifetime TRT.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

Calories a day are around 2000.

If you can't be honest with a room full of internet strangers, how can you be honest with yourself? You are absolutley NOT consuming 2000 calories while doing this:

I've been lifting. StrongLifts 5x5 for a few months. Buckled down these past 4 weeks. Exercise 6 days a week. 3 days HIIT, 3 days lifting.

And not losing weight. No fucking way. Based on the info you provided your maintenance calories is probably nearing 3000 calories.

Learn some self discipline and stop being a fat tub of goo.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

This has been my assumption. I have been tracking diligently for three weeks. There must be something sneaking in that either I'm not aware of or vastly underestimation.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I am a big fan of Soylent. There are also keto variants. The idea is that you have 100% control of your diet and intake, no "mistakes" possible. Also, you can inherently save a lot of food prep time and money. I value my time, and wasting it preparing food is not the best use of it.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Have you tried the new flavors? Are you using the premixed or powder?

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I use the powder. It isn't exactly where I want to be nutritionally, so I created my own formula which uses about half soylent, then mixes in other stuff like protein powder, coconut oil, olive oil, etc to get the protein and fat % up and reduce the carbs.

It is a bit of a pain, but still less time than making traditional food. I make my dry mix in a big container, so I only have to do it once in a while.

I'm thinking of getting some bottled though, just to have in a pinch if I'm running out the door and don't have any made.

Some people try to argue it isn't "healthy", it's fake food, etc. But when you really hold a candle to it very few people are truly eating a more balanced and rich diet than I. Maybe occasionally, but not every single day. People like to tell you about some complex salad they make with this and that ingredient, and how it is healthier. I'm not saying they're wrong, but what about the paper bag full of shit they ate the other 3 days from a drive-through...

[–]sixdownsevenup-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have been fascinated by Soylent and have been considering it. Wondering about the new flavors for the pre-mix.

[–]zeteomegaleio0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Another fan of replacement shakes, though I use Ketochow rather than Soylent. The owner seems really cool, very active in their subreddit, and big on customer service and quality of product (keeps delaying new Ketochow 2.0 for months now because they haven't been up to snuff in his QC testing). Also, buying 4 at a time gets you 10% off (~2.5 weeks for LTR and I), makes the most sense for shipping costs (4 bags of powder fit in 1 large priority mailer), and we usually try to cash in on whatever the flavor of the week - especially vanilla which is already cheap.

Their flavors are all solid if not even tasty (chocolate peanut butter especially). I like that you use heavy cream as the liquid which makes it seem like I'm always drinking milkshakes - I'm not sure how Soylent is in comparison with adding water to their powder. We use Mio's and sugar-free syrups with the vanilla to make all sorts of flavors and keep the cost lower than buying the more expensive flavors (aside from choc pb). Orange/tangerine Mio shake tastes like a creamsicle, cherry, coffee, etc.

I started this right after New Year's. While I can't talk directly about Soylent, a few things I've learned the past few months that MAY apply when doing these kinds of shakes (though some might just be strictly because I was doing keto as well):

-We started out doing 3 shakes the first day, 2 shakes and a dinner the next, then repeat the cycle. I think a better system is to do 2 shakes a day and 1 meal. 3 shakes a day continually is kind of miserable and while the shakes are nutritionally complete, I feel better when real food is added to the mix.

-Get a solid blender if you don't have one; we bought a Blendtec years ago and it is awesome. Get a bunch of bottles. Then make your shakes in batches ahead of time; we usually have about 5-6 meals (10-12 bottles for LTR and I) for ~30 minutes of shake making. The time would probably be cut down if we were just doing 1 or 2 flavors, but we keep the variety high and do something different each batch so we don't get sick of it (especially as most shakes use vanilla as base with flavorings).

-You might want to buy a blender bottle as a backup in case you fucked up and forgot to make the shakes ahead of time. We usually have easy fall-back meals in these cases (ex: eggs, bacon, veggies if we wake up in the morning with no morning shake made). This way you can quickly made a single serving.

-Buy lots of chopped frozen spinach bags and throw that in every shake (another reason the blender method is superior). We occasionally use frozen berries in addition to the spinach for flavor (instead of the Mio's) as well.

-You might possibly need Metamucil to be added to the shakes too. For me, I had to do both and even take some Metamucil by itself occasionally. If you aren't doing keto, or are like my LTR who can handle it, this might not be necessary.

-An added benefit to frozen spinach is the nutrients coming from real food. Working vegetables in while doing the shakes has been a good thing for me; salad, cucumber sticks, etc. as snacks really helped add fiber and also made me feel better than when I just took the shakes.

-I take a shit ton of supplements as well. Not the woo-woo shit, just stuff like D3, Magnesium, etc. With Ketochow in particular, you need a fish oil supplement at least.

-Above all, make sure your electrolytes are on point. Salt your food more when you do eat food. I also keep some Trioral as a great way to get over hangovers, and that stuff saved my ass a few times from feeling like total shit. Pedialyte is fine too.

-MCT oil fucked me up horribly - my ass was bleeding from the diarrhea. Be very careful if you use that stuff too. We now have 2 big bottles of the shit that I can't use.

-Probiotics seem to help me a lot and I've read the same from others when their stomach starts to have issues with the shakes. I think pills would work fine, but I prefer a spoonful or two of greek yogurt or labne cheese.

-If you do choose keto, I have found for me personally I need at least a little bit of carbs. I was definitely under 20-30g or less of carbs each day and started experiencing headaches and fatigue despite making sure everything else was solid. I fought through it for 2 months and it got worse as time went on. Now I work in either some fruit (bananas, grapes), beans into the meals we eat, a little milk or yogurt, or possibly even some cheap carbs (a few pretzels, crackers, etc. as a snack with some salami/cheese) I do way better.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So - just to hijack OP a little more - what do you use for bottles?

[–]zeteomegaleio0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just plastic Rubbermaid water bottles with a flip cap. Any water bottle type thing will do as long as it holds like 20oz of liquid and the mouth is large enough (it is a thick shake after all, not just pure liquid). You might also consider something like a Hydroflask or similar insulated bottle if you need to take the shake with you to work or somewhere for a few hours before you'll be able to drink it.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks. I have a number of shaker cups etc. You are the second person to mention the Hydoflask - will check it out.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I can totally believe the OP. r/InChargeMan - have you had hormone issues? I do now, but there was a time before when I did not. When I didn't I could definitely loose weight @2000kCal/day and 6 workouts/wk.

Now, I have to be below 1800 to lose anything and below 1600 to consistently lose reasonable lbs/wk. with SL5x5 every other day.

And yes, I track everything in a spreadsheet sperg-style - so these are real numbers.

Metabolism is a funny thing.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So, I believe that there are a whole host of factors which might affect the amount of calories necessary to maintain, lose or gain weight. It really isn't a question of a particular value as much as a person manipulating their control system to get the output they want.

Go on keto @ 1600 calories a day and I guarantee the fat will melt off.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So, I get the thermogenic effect of food selection, but I am not sure that staying in ketosis would be sustainable for me. Also, to be clear - all I was really trying to get to is that fucked up hormones can mean a fucked up metabolism and can shift that regardless of diet.

In other words, let's say for the discussion that keto is the best. What I am saying is that with normal hormones keto maintenance intake would be X and with fucked hormones it's Y and X > Y...

[–]rebbit_reddit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think there's a good chance you have sleep apnea. That would account for being tired and grumpy. There is evidence to show that it can contribute to weight gain. Consider getting a sleep study done. Apparently there are home kits so you don't have to go to a sleep lab. If you have sleep apnea, it's generally solved by using a CPAP machine when you sleep to keep your airways open

[–]bourbonhipster2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are 230# eating 2000 calories a day and struggling to lose weight?

I call bullshit.

You don't need T shots. You need a food scale and a calculator and some self accountability.

[–]The_LitzRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not much background, do you lift and eat right? Are you overweight? Basically I am asking if you have gone through the trouble to remedy it by diet and lifting.

Judging by your post you have not put in any effort in these departments but instead you are looking for a magic elixir to make you feel 'right' immediately.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I will edit the post.

But yes. I've been lifting. StrongLifts 5x5 for a few months. Buckled down these past 4 weeks. Exercise 6 days a week. 3 days HIIT, 3 days lifting.

I'm very overweight. Have been my whole life, my lightest was 195, right before I met my wife (imagine that). Ballooned all the way up to 270, currently at 230. BF is probably 30-35%. So yes. I'm a fat tub of fuck.

Calories a day are around 2000.

[–]atlhartRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Judging your own progress can be tough, especially if you have a long way to go. As part of trying to figure out what's going on, I recommend you take and record some body measurements. Your gym can probably measure your BF% and BMi for you so it's not guess work. Also measure your waist at the belly button. You could do the whole navy method if you want. Measure thighs, arms, etc...

See where those go over the next month of working out and recording your calories.

On the calorie note, if you aren't actually logging your calories, it's very likely you are consuming more than you think. A decent kitchen scale isn't ver expensive and it takes a lot of guess work out.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am logging using MFP. I am trying to keep macros at I have calipers but I don't use them right. I think the best is to do the tape measure around belly button. I'll get one today.

Im keeping around 150g, protein at 225g and fat at 56.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I second getting a kitchen scale if you don't have one. It will change the way you see quantities.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Vitamin D, Vitamin K and Calcium supplements Kill the sugar and starch Look @ the Whole 30 diet You will be shocked with reuslts

Look @ your diet and time outside Vit D deficiency and diet are killing 1/2 the population

[–]Rebuildingtom1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

My symptoms were tiredness, no concentration, anxiety, low libido and intermittent problems keeping it up. I wasn't overweight but an endurance runner and had issues in my relationship which were causing anxiety (pre me finding RP). Initially the doc wouldn't test me, I had to demand it and I came back at 12.3 nmol/l ref range 10-31 nmol/l and was told it was normal. I'm 33 and this was not normal. Have a look at the art of manliness blog that's been mentioned as it has some reference tables.

I spent a lot of time researching it and went back a couple of months later to request another test for T as well as other hormones. Doctor would only test for T as I was in the "normal" range but as it was the afternoon he couldn't test then (bloods need to be pre 9am) so gave me a bloods slip on which I then wrote the other hormones on before having my bloods done the next day by the nurse. My T was 10.3 nmol, just in the reference range. LH and FSH were very low (off the scale indicating that the issue was secondary i.e. Not my balls) but cortisol, prolactin, oestrogen, SGBH all normal. Got referred for an MRI to confirm no pituitary tumour, but 3 month wait. In that time I found the Testshock program and forum (Testshock is a purchase but I still think it was worth it now) and incorporated the workouts (I made a hybrid up with 5X5, had already been doing 5X5 for 4 months), fasting, rest, diet, supplements and by the time I had my MRI (all clear) my T had gone up to 19.0. I knew before it was going to be higher as I felt 100 times better.

Everything I have said above comes with a big caveat. I am now fairly certain that my issues were physiological caused by anxiety as I have recently had issues that have made me feel more anxious recently and symptoms are returning - but my anxiety could be being driven by low T again. I'm still broadly following the program I was doing before and I'm waiting for my latest test results to come back - I'm expecting my T to have fallen.

Doctors and endocrinologist were not really interested as I was in the "normal" range. Not sure what would have happened if it hadn't have gone up. Just going by what you have written I would start by looking at your diet, make sure you are consuming enough of the right calories and ensure you are getting adequate rest, but I'm no expert so do the research. Make sure you are 100% on top of it when you go to the doctors so they can't fob you off.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Except in those cases where Total T is profoundly low, the Drs. don't give a fuck (generally). You need to be your own advocate and keep pushing until you get someone that will take it seriously.

[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I have them test my T levels at every physical. A couple years ago, it was on the lower end in overall testosterone and low on free test testosterone on. I started doing vitamin D and zinc supplements… And my testosterone went up about 30% and my free testosterone is well into the normal range now.

I've been doing squats, adding 5 pounds a week for a few months now. It will be interesting to see how that affects my testosterone when I get my physical in a couple months

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I don't know what my T levels are, but I do know that once I started taking ZMA every evening and a multivitamin with Zinc added every morning, I started getting raging morning wood every day again.

It had been pretty infrequent the last 5 years or so. I don't know how much of it was weight loss, how much was the Zinc, and how much was lifting heavy, squats and deadlifts, but I do know that my highly unscientific results seem to indicate my T levels have definitely increased.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah I'm cautious of any supplement outside vit D and Zinc.

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

ZMA is basically just Zinc, Magnesium and B6. Works as a pretty good sleep aid as well, take it 30 min before bed and sleep like the dead. Only side effect I've seen mentioned (and experienced) is an increase in vivid dreams. Probably due to an increase in REM sleep. That and the raging morning wood.

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I researched it a little right after. Might be less expensive just to go with the individual ones, and just take them. I also researched vitamin K2, and I just ordered some Amazon.

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yep, you might have low T and it's probably compounded with high estradiol because you are fat.

Go here, pay 32$ go get tested.

http://www.discountedlabs.com/testosterone-test-total-and-free-regular/

Based on the outcome of that, you will find out if you can go to an endo or if you are borderline low and would need a lifestyle doc.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You used this place before?

[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. They are just resellers. You get your blood drawn and processed by a national lab nearby you.

The labs sell to doctors at much lower prices than they list for you and I. So a doc set up a web site, upcharges a few bucks and you get cheap labs.

[–]that_italia_guy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like overtraining. I'd go for a rest week or two. 3 weeks on 1 week off. I train 6 days a week.

[–]CaptainJackSorrow1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think that advice for new guys here should be, "Lift, Read the Sidebar, and get your testosterone checked." It is literally what makes us men, and without it, it's impossible to be manly.

I had mine checked a year ago and I was at 120 (low normal for a man is 300, normal for a woman is 75). I was tired, grumpy, and lazy. I had severe anxiety (I GAF about everything) and depression. I had never been able to make any gains in the gym. I thought I had a normal sexual appetite and didn't have any problems with erections. I had an injury to my nuts when I was in grade school, and looking back, that probably contributed to my issues.

I went to one of those men's health clinics and after all the necessary testing, they started me on weekly testosterone injections. Within four weeks, I felt like a new man. I had confidence. I was ambitious. I slept better. My libido was through the roof. My GF and I had a pretty good sex life before, but on testosterone it was insane! She'd bite and claw me. Fat melted away and I had definition in my shoulders, forearms, and shoulders that I never had before.

I had to discontinue my injections due to high blood cell count, but got that under control and am back on it. Pretty much all of my previous symptoms returned in the last four months and my relationship has suffered as a result. Excited for the old new me to return in the next month or so.

My balls shrank, but my erections are bigger and harder. I have acne (back, neck, and chest). I'm probably infertile and will need testosterone the rest of my life, but my body wasn't making enough on its own as it was. A high libido isn't always convenient. It can be tricky balancing estrogen and getting the right amount of testosterone dialed in, but it is, without question, the best thing I ever did for myself.

[–]WesternhagenWinner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I had to discontinue my injections due to high blood cell count, but got that under control and am back on it.

I don't have this issue but I am told that periodic phlebotomy (or blood donation) solves it.

I have acne (back, neck, and chest).

Me too.

It can be tricky balancing estrogen and getting the right amount of testosterone dialed in

Yes. This (plus the red blood count issue) is the reason you have to get your blood analyzed regularly. Also, make sure that YOU understand the results yourself, don't just rely on the doc to tell you whether or not the results are "correct". Relying on the doc to "tell me the answer" is how I suffered from low T for too many years to begin with.

[–]sixdownsevenup0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

OK - so first off - just be aware that what could be going on may be hormonal but "Total Testosterone" can be misleading (Free T and some of the other hormones are very important too). Another warning is that it can be very difficult to find a Dr. that gives a flying fuck. I have a detailed post regarding my struggles over at r/steroids.

If I was in your position, would look into getting an independent male hormone panel right now as a baseline (if you are in a place where you are allowed to do that, in the US there are some states that won't allow testing laboratories to provide you with the results - fuckers). I can recommend Spectracell Laboratories - for about $150 you can get a comprehensive male hormone panel.

Given your present weight, the first thing to do is to get down under 20% body fat and get another panel. My pre/post weight-loss labs showed some significant differences. It helped a lot in some areas, but other areas got way worse.

In my case, my Total T is in low-mid normal range (btw, be careful about ranges - they are different from lab to lab, and you cannot directly compare, say, Labcorps to Spectracell values) but my Free T is profoundly low. I believe that this has caused most of my symptoms (ED, low-to-no libido at times, brain fog, low motivation/masculine aggression, long recovery times, hard to gain lean mass, hard to lose fat mass).

I think that having hormonal problems makes MRP more difficult in some areas. For me, particularly in initiating and staying Outcome Independent. When you have a screwed up T/estrogen ratio it definitely impacts feelz and ability to maintain frame IMO.

I have been through 3 drs. and am giving my endo one last chance. If they don't come through by the end of the month with some concrete analysis & recommendation, I am going to a Dr. I know that runs a men's clinic and just start trying some things to see if it works.

Good luck to you.

(edit: typos)

[–]rebbit_reddit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think there's a good chance you have sleep apnea. That would account for being tired and grumpy. There is evidence to show that it can contribute to weight gain. Consider getting a sleep study done. Apparently there are home kits so you don't have to go to a sleep lab. If you have sleep apnea, it's generally solved by using a CPAP machine when you sleep to keep your airways open

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Was at 260, now at 250 and falling. Low carbing it mostly. Off and on the wagon. Good luck to you. It's a hard road.

[–]trp_ocd10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Leg day every day, and lose weight. The body wants to make its own T, but you're in the way.

[–]saltybull0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Well did you get your testosterone level tested? I put it off for about a year and became so T-low I had zero motivation, weight gain and couldn't get a decent erection or have any orgasm control. My T was 170. Started TRT injections 200mg IM once a week and my T levels stay around 850 all the time now. I feel great again and enjoy a rock solid functioning tool like I am 18 again.

[–]prematureredpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No I haven't yet. I had a surgery scheduled that got in the way. I'm going to commit to losing 10% of my body weight and a solid 6 weeks in the gym (after surgery recover) to see how I feel.



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