CMV: When it comes to relationships, men need women, more than women need men

auto-xkcd37 · 2019-09-16T18:38:38+00:00

It hurts my heart the people feel this way. So much angst and bitterness on this website around relationships :(

Men do not suck at communication and YES companionship is exactly why I am with my husband. We are best friends. We need and support each other. We love being together.

Everything about this post makes me sad. Humans are meant to have close loving relationships. Getting married is wonderful. I feel genuinely awful for anyone with such a jaded view.

"Emotional labor" a made up feminist phrase. Both men and women support each other emotionally, when the relationship is healthy. It isn't labor to uplift and encourage the person you love.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-09-16T15:33:02+00:00

If you are bored, you are boring. If you are bored, it's your fault.

Money? Modern women do not even need men for that as they can work full-time.

My wife makes 90k a year and I make 80k. Combined, that's a fuck ton of security and it's affords 3 children, a bomb ass house, camping trailers, brand new mini van for the wife and my F150. And anything we really want. If you can't see what combining two paychecks can do, you lack imagination.

Married men make more money than single men. (but married women do not earn more money than single women)

Yeeaaahhh. And let me go buy my $2500 Travor and see how Mrs Augustine takes it...Most of our money goes into savings to do other shit, like pay for kids.

Married men and generally healthier than single men.

What the hell are you talking about? They're all fat.

TLDR until I see women bending their knee to ask for marriage, women giving a dude a wedding ring set that cost 3 months pay, women collectively being romantic, buying men large items like ATVs or 100 inch TVs just for the hell of it, I'll start believing this "men have it better".

The only thing I think men do is not worry about what women worry about so women look at that with envy and frustration.

the-lone-squid · 2019-09-16T16:16:56+00:00

Men don't need women, they were brainwashed into believing they need women. Mgtow is helping to break that condition. Most of the unmarried men at my work are happier and healthier then the married or divorced men.

Divorced man really fuck up the stats for single men.

married men make more money then single men

That's try. My married coworkers work more overtime and strive for promotions. Many usually making more then me. Yet I'm the one with a paid off house and more money then i know what to with.

married men are healthier

Funny, your source that you used also published an article a couple years ago stating that never married men had the best heart health out of any group.

lestratege · 2019-09-16T15:53:41+00:00

I would argue that women mainly have sex that is not pleasurable in order to please men

Why would they do that if not because they understand that without sex there would be no relationship? This shows that women value the relationship more because if it weren't the case, they would not get into "duty sex", they would just leave the relation, which is what most men do in case of dead bedroom if there is no other threats to him (ie divorce rape, kids taken away, etc.).

Money? Modern women do not even need men for that as they can work full-time.

Yet it is women who are hypergamic: this means that for women, it doesn't matter if they are indeed independent, they want a man that makes more money. This shows that indeed, for women, money is not an issue per se, because they always have social safety nets. But for them, it shows the value of men, even if those men are objectively useless to them, they still mate and enter relations with them. So they do not NEED men, yet they still want relations with them. Why? Because they need relations more than the men themselves. The men on the other hand, need the women (for sex mainly) but don't need the relation. As Charlie Sheen said, "I don't pay for sex, I pay for the women to leave."

Companionship? Please, it is widely known that men suck at communication.

Non sequitur. Companionship has nothing to do with communication. Carthusian monks leave in quasi silence, and yet they are the best companions to each other. You are confusing signal and noise. Women are great at making noise, a lot of them, and thus the cognitive and emotional labor to dig out of this noise made by women the informative signal is really high. It doesn't make women better at communicating, because communication is a RATIO (signal/noise). Women are verbose and bury information in a lot of noise. That's not better communication.

Married men make more money than single men.

No they don't. They make more money but unlike single men they have to support the SAH wives for a big chunk of them. So who makes more money? Joe with a wife at home making 80K a year for two people to live on, or Dave who makes 50K for himself and with way more free time?

Single men are more likely to commit suicide than married men.

And married men are more likely to have children than single men. This discrepancy can be attributed to the fact of having children. Only this difference in rate cannot rule out a confounding variable (ie 3rd variable is the source of 2 independent ones, for example the sales of ice-cream and murder rate: they both rise with summers, but if you were to only look at the first two, you could say that selling more ice-cream make the murder rate rises, or vice-versa.)

Single men make the largest group of homeless people.

Because society treat them as disposable: single women have shelters, and married men would not be able to slave for their wives and children if they were homeless, so they are also protected. Single men on the other hand, they can go die in foreign wars too.

Men don't even go to the doctor by themselves, they have to be pressured by their wives to do it.

They try to shorten their misery but their wives take care of their ATM because if he becomes sick, she won't be able to drain him any longer, hence the health discrepancy: when the health of men starts being important, their women have lost almost all chances to secure another ATM, sorry, husband, hence the absolute necessity for them to maintain their husband in a sufficient health for them to keep the money flow going. It's like maintaining your car.

On an individual level, it is MEN who need a woman to feel validated and motivated.

Not really: every domain where men are competitive (hence motivated and seeking validation by wanting to win) are actually domains where men work as much as possible to exclude women (feminists say so too): top level positions (CEO), making money, sports, etc. All these were domains that were male spaces that lately have been forcibly invaded by females. Men do no need women to compete and win, they would do that on a deserted island at the age of 12 (see Lord of the Flies). Women have labelled this "power" because it escapes them inexorably since as they enter these male spaces (and at the same time demanding that their female only spaces stay), men just change them. Men are not interested in competing with females since men beat women in about every domain worth noting, even at sucking dicks!

Women on the other hand, cannot stand men being by themselves. They cannot and do not want to leave them alone, because if so, they feel how useless they are: they only bring biological services to men that do not depend on women for anything save warm pussy and reproductions, and at the rate of which technology is progressing, even this is only for the next 50 years. Once artificial wombs and sexbots are perfected, men, the sole possessors of the complete genetic code of the human race, will not need women for anything anymore. But don't worry, men will still keep women around, like cats: not because they destroy pests (and despite their awful impact on wildlife), but just because they are fun to be around from time to time.

jax006 · 2019-09-16T16:28:19+00:00

This is true for the 80% of droning beta men who die from fatness related heart disease with N-counts of 2

It isnt true for any man of real value. I have never had sex with a girl who didnt want me to commit to her. That alone right there makes this whole OP bullshit to me.

NockerJoe · 2019-09-16T16:59:31+00:00

This is the third time this month you've made this thread.

MasonMan1234 · 2019-09-16T17:41:21+00:00

It's almost like men enter into codependent relationships which drain the woman and depend on her far too much and that's a really shitty deal for women to sign up for!

aypi98 · 2019-09-16T16:25:19+00:00

Mgtow is cope. Men need women a lot. While women dont really need men and they actually hate men in general and they hate us because they dont need us.

Blonsomio · 2019-09-16T17:33:25+00:00

As long as men collectively "behave" women don't need men. When shit goes down women can't defend themselves.

wtknight · 2019-09-16T18:21:03+00:00

Women need Chad as an individual more than Chad needs an individual woman. If your argument is applied only to average men, then I agree with you.

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abaxeron · 2019-09-16T18:58:14+00:00

I don't understand; you've made basically the same thread 10 days ago, and got a lot of fine answers. Are you milking for karma? I have a feeling that you picked those articles and sources from 1-2-year-old PPD threads; I feel like I remember them all.

BUT, to keep things simple, you're free to try and move a full-sized fridge from one corner of the kitchen to another by yourself.

And we guys stopped chasing the dream of surviving to the age when we can't recognize our own children; if you think it's worth it, feel free to enjoy this blissful stage of life.

RT-AC66U · 2019-09-16T19:07:25+00:00

Neither needs anyone.

darksoldierk · 2019-09-17T01:35:39+00:00

Yeah, the problem is, you are not taking into account what happens to single men. Single men experience things that most single women do not. Most single men made an effort to find a relationship. And most single men failed. Now, imagine if you spent 5 or even 10 years of your life regularly asking women out and being turned down. Getting turned down is one thing, but for it to happen so often and for so long, it just makes you hate yourself. When you are reminded so often of your faults directly and personally, well, it has a way of demotivating you in your life overall whether its at work or for personal health.

You'll also find that suicide rates are higher among people who are active in the job search market but are consistently unemployed for prolonged periods of time. The difference is, unemployment EVENTUALLY changes, but men don't always eventually get into relationships.

Women, on the other hand, are often showered with attention. Even ugly women are showered with attention.

It's one thing to go through life thinking "i can be loved, but not by the people who I want to love me", and it's something completely different to go through life thinking "I'm unlovable".

I find it funny how one of those "advantageous" that men enjoy from marriage isn't overall wealth. They make more money, but do they end up having more money? If I'm a single guy making 80k a year, and my married buddy makes 100k a year, well, I'd be making more than him for as long his wife makes 60k or less. If she divorces, she owns half of his bank account, and he owns half of hers. So if he saved 100k and she saved 60k in that year, he'd end up with 80k. Problem is, when women have children, they don't often end up making enough to support the fact that the man would continue to make more even after a divorce. Numbers are funny, they can be so easily misrepresented.

Combine that with the loss of assets, child support and sometimes alimony, as well as the difficulty of not having daily access to your children, I mean, marriage really is about as beneficial for men as it is for women. Suicide rates are (last time I read) about 3 times higher for divorced men than divorced women. Divorce is a consequence (and very often one at that) of marriage.

You can't look at it from only one perspective. Those studies that you listed look at the benefits WHILE the marriage exists, look at the positive effects of marriage without looking at the negative effects, the primary one, by far, being divorce.

finch2200 · 2019-09-17T14:09:41+00:00

So are you suggesting that heterosexual marriage is a burden women should avoid?

xdppthrowaway9001x · 2019-09-17T17:10:39+00:00

Women are absolutely useless without men. If men left the planet civilization would end in about 30 days.

Women need men, because they can't defend themselves from harm and in the most natural state of things, aren't even self-sufficient enough to prevent themselves from starving to death. This is because the typical woman is weak, slow, lacks fast-twitch muscles, has slower reflexes, etc. Women in general can only pick berries. They can't kill large animals. Basically without men, women starve to the death along with the children.

Speaking of strength, women also aren't strong enough to build anything important like homes, and IQ distribution shows that women are less likely to be creative/intelligent enough to design things such as the machines that could help them build large structures, provide electricity, etc.

Outside of reproduction women need men, because they are functionally like teenagers. You only get the false impression that it is the other way around, because nowadays we have civilization (designed by men) with a lot of safety nets for women, that allows them to be less reliant on having a partner. If you were solely framing this question in a modern context, irrespective of how things naturally are, then the sentence before this one should satisfy your question as well.

Bntt89 · 2019-09-17T20:18:30+00:00

So about men committing suicide nothing shows that women are the ones helping men, it shows that gender roles are what contributed to the high suicides. But it doesn't say that women are pushing men into clinics.

Honestly if you just hate men just dont date them dont make up this bullshit and spread your misandry. You're really no different from any misogynist.

CMOAN_MAYNE · 2019-09-19T16:07:49+00:00

It’s quite telling that you’d frame it this way instead of “marriage is actually very good for men!”

Also are we really going to pretend that single, middle aged women are overwhelmingly happy people?

wekacuck · 2019-09-16T15:36:54+00:00

I don't see anything mechanistic going on in anything you're showing here. And there could be a few confounds. Women tend to select men with higher earnings and fathers can certainly be more driven to perform economically. Childfree bachelor guys who aren't looking to impress a women have a different cost-benefit analysis. Maybe they like to go fishing rather than smash a keyboard to create another spreadsheet?

Ultimately your point is that men suck at taking care of themselves. That doesn't mean men need women, it just means we need to get better at taking care of ourselves.

WarrenGFarting · 2019-09-16T15:37:36+00:00

That's a negative ghost rider

aypi98 · 2019-09-16T16:23:49+00:00

I agree but im still #mgtow for life

jmitch88 · 2019-09-16T17:26:52+00:00

These women/men are better because they don’t need women/men arguments are dumb and flawed to the core.

Some statement: Hammers don’t need nails the same way nails need hammers. Or Nails don’t need hammers the way hammers need nails. They both have flaw. What’s the goal? If your goal is to build then yes you need a hammer and a nail. One could argue the hammer is most important and any nail will do. Another could argue the right type of nail is most important but any hammer will do. You see it’s cyclical. If the decided goal is to destroy then the hammer is all that’s needed as it removes nails. Now the power dynamic has shifted based on goal of use.

Men and women are symbiotic if working toward mutual goal. Evolutionary goal of preservation of genes unites male and female in a struggle against extinction. Women need men the same as men need women. Remove woman and man cannot procreate. Remove man and woman faces uncertainty in times of natural vulnerability. Both serve purpose. Put into today terms if a woman needs no man then she is supplementing his use with something else. I can swear of eating vegetables and using supplements for nourishment But I still need the end product of nourishment regardless of how it entered me.

Few women are capable of having all of the offerings of a M/F household(double income, splitting benefits and child coverage like nights out or work trips or vacations without needing to pay babysitters) on her own. The same goes for a man too but the questions is around females.

Who needs who more is an ignorant and stupid topic. The answer changes as the objective changes. If all you care about is career success then neither sex needs the other. If your focus is on having the whole cake then there are tradeoffs and a more complicated answer.

NalkaNalka · 2019-09-16T17:35:14+00:00

Again with the same claims that have been debunked so many times it's like a broken record around here.

Correlation does not equal causation. Men who are richer, healthier and happier are more likely to get married. Marriage does not make them those things. In fact after you account for premarraige factors like the man's premarriage health happiness social position prospects, and personality you will find that marriage has a negative effect on men.

MasonMan1234 · 2019-09-16T16:44:11+00:00

Lol this is coping at its finest, this post is just you deluding yourself into thinking that being a lonely woman for the rest of your life is ok, when in reality you'll likely end up being miserable.

Title	CMV: When it comes to relationships, men need women, more than women need men
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	7
Comments	78
Date	September 16, 2019 3:17 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/d522vm/cmv_when_it_comes_to_relationships_men_need_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-when-it-comes-to-relationships-men-need-women.253864 https://theredarchive.com/post/253864

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