Q4Men: do any of you have the Madonna/whore complex?

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-05-27T17:41:46+00:00

Sure.

How does it affect my life? Found a gf who is both a madonna and my exclusive whore.

I think most western men and men in general suffer from this complex. Despite being married, they still masturbate to things they wouldn’t do with their wife.

Taipanshimshon · 2018-05-27T19:59:49+00:00

Complete idiocy but understandable in the context of society that shames sex.

In fact the concept comes more from experience. I haven’t often seen women who can enjoy rough abusive sex ( I said enjoy - not be abused ) who are also great mothers and wives.

In fact several women I have been with actually exhibit this. Good moms often feel shame with such acts. ( I don’t think they should ) while bad moms/ wife types actively seek this or when they find it become addicted.

They often have a difficult time reconciling their desire for “bad” things with their own self image of “good” women.

Men TEND not to have this self image issue.

At the same time there are guys who say things like “my wife kisses my Children with that mouth” and think of the associated acts as “dirty”

I think in general women have a more difficult time separating public image and self image from “private “ self image.

Then again I want both. A lady in the streets , an advisor in the boardroom and a slut in My sheets

wtknight · 2018-05-27T17:31:56+00:00

I think most men these days, at least western men, have reconciled their SO being a sexual person with her also being a wife and mother. I certainly have never had any issue with this, despite my preference for a women who aren't or haven't ever been into casual sex.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-05-27T18:07:01+00:00

No, I don't suffer from this as a "complex" nor does it affect my life.

But I'm chiming in here because I think this is massively understood, and the "madonna/whore complex" is a bad way to describe it. It comes from the old days of psychology ... back when the field was at the stage of believing in phlogiston or lluminiferous aether ... and old and out-dated theory thats become massively outdated as we've learned more. Like those things, it refers to a real issue. But like those things it's the wrong way to conceptualise it.

Whats causing this is a simple fact about men. Their genetic instinctive "attractors" towards a short term mate, and to a long term mate are in some respects antagonistic. (primarily, promiscuousness/ease of sexual access is attractive in an STR, but very unattractive in an LTR).

This is also coupled in males with drives for polygyny. A willingness to have one "primary" partner as a wife, (with which he has heirs. Kids he is sure are his, and so is willing to provision to produce high-quality offspring) and as many "secondary" partners as he can get his hands on (with which he has bastards. Kids he is not sure are his, and so is unwlling to provision, producing lots of low quality offspring). Males need, and demand, fidelity from the wife and get uncomfortable when she appears too sexual as this could lead to her cuckolding him in the traditional sense (causing him to raise children that are not biologically/genetically his).

So. Your basic guy has these basic drives. He wants an LTR with a non-promiscuous/non-highly sexually adventuress "wife" that he can be sure only has sex with him. Thats the "madonna".

He also has other drives, which make him seek promiscuous/sexually adventurous "mistresses", and he doesn't care if they sleep around as their kids won't be provisioned so he can't lose if he gets "cuckolded". Thats the "whore".

Then that guy.... with those two seperate and equally satisfiable drives providing he can be polygynous... finds himself in a society that demands, enforces, wants to have him in a strictly monogamous relationship.

Now he has to get both evolutionary drives (designed to make him seek out different women) satisfied with the same woman and because thats NOT what they are designed to do, he gets all fucked up and conflicted about that. He wants a "madonna" and he wants a "whore" but historically they were two different chicks, and now he's forced to satisfy both drives with one and she can't "be both" in teh same way two chicks can.

So, when she acts like the whore, the "wife" drive is dissatisfied, and regards her as a lower value wife.... and when she acts like a "wife" the other drive is dissatisfied, and he feels sexually stymied.

Our societies basic solution to this is, more or less, sexual fantasy play and lingerie and other things... that allows a guy to satisfy both with one girl. Wife 6 days a week. Whore on "Naughty Thursdays while the kids are at piano class". The other way out is having a wife, and jacking off to porn to satisfy the whore part of the issue.

But some guys get all kinds of hung up on this, because they don't understand what the fuck is going on (Evolutionary drives that need to be satisfied by two or more different women are being directed into one). He (and some psychologists) assume he has some kind of complex about the one wife, rather than realising he's trying to satisfy natural drives in a way thats evolutionarily unnatural.

So, thats what I think is happening... and I wouldn't trust any psychology who said this was due to "issues with his mommy" or not being "loved enough as a child" or some deep-seated "complex" caused by upbringing. Thats the phlogiston I still see psychology repeating on this one. It's really got not a lot to do with "her reminding him of his mother" or other things. It's got a lot to do with polygyny, and male drives for LTR and STR being different.

Whats happening is a guy is having to direct his "heirs instinctive drive" and "bastards instinctive drive" into a single woman.

Thats a better description of the phenomena, and "Madonna/Whore" is a way of describing it that just stinks of lluminiferous aether and phlogiston and the philosophers stone to me. Ways of viewing the issue that are so corrupted by being wrong you're better off ditching the name and calling it something new.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-05-27T23:22:57+00:00

you explained the madonna whore complex well at first and then muddied th waters afterwards wth your discusison before the question. no one who isnt married with children hasa "madonna wore complex"

madonna who complex is not a preference for a chaste wife, its a psychological INABILITY TO HAVE SEX WITH MOTHER OF YOUR CHILDREN now that she is a Mother

CursedLemon · 2018-05-27T18:00:11+00:00

I honestly can't really empathize with this issue. Who gets into a relationship with someone they're not sexually compatible with? Is this implying that the attraction goes away when the rings are on? If so, that just sounds like people who get bored easily.

paccount112 · 2018-05-27T19:29:49+00:00

Men don't know when they have it, or they wouldn't.

abaxeron · 2018-05-27T20:10:57+00:00

I'd say it's a phase. An amazing property of human being is to get used to everything. Even to the fact that the babies come out the same way penis comes in.

Barely-moral · 2018-05-27T17:42:13+00:00

Maybe. I don't want to be a father and I avoid women that want to be mothers so I wouldn't be able to say since I have no experience with madonna types.

blackedoutfast · 2018-05-27T18:12:05+00:00

what kind of debased sex acts tho? like eating ass or letting random Craigslist dudes run a train on her?

a sweet, caring, wholesome, very traditionally feminine woman who also secretly acts like a dirty little whore for me is ideal. but not if she's an actual whore.

hematomatoed · 2018-05-27T17:41:33+00:00

...no, I don't think that's my deal. I don't have any problem choking and slapping the mother of my children.

To be honest, there's definitely a pull to new partners, and that could be interpreted as Madonna/whore, since my wife isn't the sole sexual center of my universe... but I think it's just the thrill of the new.

jax006 · 2018-05-27T17:34:31+00:00

This almost just sounds like female version of alpha/beta archetypes. I think on PPD it's fairly established that neither the uber chad or the uber beta are great partners, and the ideal is somewhere between those extremes. This is the same in that your goal is the perfect mix of whore/madonna but too extreme towards the ends of the spectrum is no bueno.

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Ascimator · 2018-05-27T17:54:01+00:00

I don't think I want a Madonna in that context at all, no. Don't want kids, don't care about changing my mind on that any time soon.

[deleted] · 2018-05-27T17:59:42+00:00

I can't say much because I have not been married nor stayed with a women for too long, but i can say Freud abstracted way too much... many of his ideas were debunked,

But in a medicinal side of things I can say that testosterone, serotonin and dopamine within a relationship that are related to sexual arousal tend to diminish while oxytocin, the hormone of love/cuddle, tends to increase, this sound less abstract and more scientific.

S1imdragxn · 2018-05-27T18:39:58+00:00

Yeah but Freud is only defining the perimeters of the phenomenon here

Whores can still be respected and loved after all

[deleted] · 2018-05-27T18:57:43+00:00

Never gonna marry let alone have kids so I have no such fears.

hammerhaunts · 2018-05-27T18:58:18+00:00

I don't, I only like madonnas

Naebany · 2018-05-27T19:29:36+00:00

I'm not interested in kids so I don't look at girls I'm with as potential mothers.

RMWristclutch · 2018-05-27T20:34:41+00:00

In theory I might (I believe in that Snoop Dogg line that you can't turn a ho into a housewife, and I wouldn't want a ho being the mom of my children and people seem to believe that's madonna/whore even though it's not) but I don't want children so that aspect would never play into it.

[deleted] · 2018-05-28T01:52:21+00:00

Yes. Back when I still liked girls, whenever I got a "crush", I would never imagine doing anything sexual with her and I lose all interest in a relationship once we have sex. A part of me is still disgusted by sex, I get off on the power rather than the actual sex.

IAm-What-IAm · 2018-05-28T03:56:43+00:00

No. I can understand why it's a widespread problem though. There have even been mothers who have problems separating being sexual in bed and a loving mom once they have kids because they can't picture themselves being both person. It's unfortunate really

[deleted] · 2018-05-28T06:36:38+00:00

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-05-29T23:45:39+00:00

Stop masturbating.

[deleted] · 2018-05-27T17:43:53+00:00

I look at like "the more we fuck the more babies we have."

Win-win.

wekacuck · 2018-05-27T18:22:56+00:00

Sort of but not really the way you describe. I tend to have a residual "good/loving sex" vs "bad/fun sex" thing. For me I think it mostly is based on whether I feel shame or guilt about the activity. That's just to say it's a certain emotional profile and experience. Before we had kids I didn't have much trouble mixing it up between the two, but after kids I somehow got more "respectful" and the "bad/fun sex" evaporated as we fell into our mother/father roles.

Wallstreet3 · 2018-05-27T19:16:49+00:00

Nope. I am not attracted to whores, I have trouble maintaining desire with them. When I find out, attraction takes a major hit to the point of deadbedroom.

I fantasize about doing dirty dirty things to the Madonna.

Title	Q4Men: do any of you have the Madonna/whore complex?
Author	briarrose268
Upvotes	15
Comments	105
Date	May 27, 2018 5:15 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8mj68w/q4men_do_any_of_you_have_the_madonnawhore_complex/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4men-do-any-of-you-have-the-madonnawhore-complex.262206 https://theredarchive.com/post/262206

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