Do people in today's culture treat relationships like marriage?

wracky272 · 2018-02-26T04:41:30+00:00

I think that people who have the intention of getting married will tend to demonstrate their fitness for that through their relationship. One doesn't want to seem like a shitty spouse before the knot is even tied.

damaskrose · 2018-02-26T22:09:15+00:00

No, I think it's the opposite, people treat engagement & marriage like 'super-dating'. Like it's just something you do to "show your love for each other", and not what it actually is (commitment).

PBRScagsquad · 2018-02-26T04:40:29+00:00

I think marriage is too easily dissolved and that is where the devaluation comes from. If it can be dissolved so quickly and readily for any reason then it might as well serve no real meaning.

blackedoutfast · 2018-02-26T06:05:16+00:00

yes, society has evolved. in the past, a romantic relationship would develop if there is enough mutual compatability and eventually lead to a sexual relationship. but now it's a total hookup culture and strangers are eating each other's asses during ONSs. now sexual relationships develop into romantic relationships.

it's not very unusual for non-married couples to move in with each other. lots of children are born out of wedlock. marriage has basically become a legal technicality. a couple in a LTR who get married will have a piece of paper and a big elaborate ceremony, but normal day-to-day life doesn't really change.

-AveMaria- · 2018-02-26T04:58:22+00:00

Dating has become kind of like marriage, and marriage has become glorified long term dating. Both now pale compared to traditional Christian marriage.

yasee · 2018-02-26T04:39:46+00:00

I had a similar experience to you in terms of the division (or lack of one) between dating and marriage. I think some people do treat their LTRs like marriages, especially as they get older, and I do think it's related to people placing less and less emphasis on formalizing their relationship status with a wedding. I don't think this is a bad trend, personally; I probably would not have chosen to get married if it weren't important to my partner, and although the way I think about our relationship probably did shift a little after the wedding, we were plenty committed beforehand too.

I can't comment on the divorce thing. It was somewhat of a taboo in my parents' generation (at least more than it is now) and they still ended up splitting. Same for a good chunk of my peer group.

Dubslav_von_Chekem · Mon Feb 26 5:16:04 2018 UTC

This also makes me think of certain posts on RPW and r/relationships, where people are making enormous concessions for people whom they've only been dating for a year or two.

People shouldn't make enormous concessions for anyone. Full stop.

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today?

Yes, but in different ways.

Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as "just a piece of paper"?

By extension, is this why people are so quick to divorce when marriage gets hard? Because they have been conditioned to see relationships as "mini marriages," and when you're tired of a relationship you break up.

I think the lower strata "relationified" marriage and the upper strata "marrified" relationships.

Do you think this trend (if you agree that it exists) is good or bad?

Bad. Roll back the Sexual Revolution.

Except miniskirts, stockings, and slutwear. Those can stay.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2018-02-26T05:33:56+00:00

I think that people treat relationships as an marriage trial run and give their all inside of a relationship to prove they're worthy of long term commitment. First it starts off slow but I'd say around the 3 year mark is when the relationship either dissolves or goes into the next stage of really becoming marriage like. After 3 years you know (or should know) all there is to know about the other, then it becomes how you two work together and where you see the future heading. Most people live with their partners before marrying and have extended engagements..the ones who rush into the whole thing more often than not are the ones who end up divorcing. Unless they're lucky :)

pangeacel · 2018-02-26T05:34:52+00:00

It depends on the relationship. I think that younger people treat 'dating' as something totally different from marriage or even courtship - go ahead and ask people something like, 'what's the point of dating someone if you aren't going to get married' and see what sort of reactions you would get. A good chunk of people just fall into their marriages because it's the 'next thing to do' rather than do what you're describing.

On the flip side, there are (mostly religious or with religious upbringing) couples that basically treat dating as courtship into marriage. Since you treated your relationship this way, I'm pretty sure your friends likely did as well (selection bias).

WhatIsThisAccountFor · 2018-02-26T06:00:39+00:00

People tend to live with their significant other before they're married. I've even heard of unmarried couples buying houses together and purposely having children together.

So yes, and the reason is because marriage is not really a worthwhile investment for men. If she decides to leave at any point, say goodbye to half of everything you have ever earned.

And women don't marry down in a significant manner financially, so At best you're coming out even in the case of divorce. Just being "life partners" is almost always a better choice for men these days.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-02-26T06:05:38+00:00

no. the primary difference is that the old system of friendship/familiarity -> dating/courtship -> sex turned into friends -> sex -> dating or sex -> friends -> dating. marriage hasnt moved its still all the way at the end of the commitment continuum

DaphneDK42 · 2018-02-26T09:40:13+00:00

It's more the other way round: marriage has been downgraded to relationships. There's very little of legal or societal or even religious that makes marriage especially binding.

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-02-26T11:13:27+00:00

From what I have seen, yes. When people are dating “exclusively,” they treat the relationship as if they are married.

People who have just started going on dates are not really “dating.” People look at it more as getting acquainted. There will be a hint of exclusivity (as in not wanting anyone else to “hit on” your date), especially if there is interest, but it is easier to walk away from someone in the earlier stage.

After people are “exclusive,” then they treat the relationship like a marriage.

Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as “just a piece of paper?”

This is where it comes from, and what I was trying to explain to certain people here just last week. If people already desire to commit to another person, the marriage contract is just for the government to distribute funds amongst everyone. It has nothing to do with their actual, physical relationship and commitment toward each other.

In regard to your “mini marriages” question, I never thought of it this way before but it could be a valid explanation.

Do you think this trend could be good or bad?

Which trend? People viewing relationships as marriages or people divorcing as a result of being conditioned to break up when the relationship gets boring?

If it’s the former, I don’t really think it’s correct to view this in terms of good or bad. If it works for them, then it works. If not, then it doesn’t.

If it’s the latter, I’m not sure. I don’t see the point in staying in a floundering relationship, especially if it’s the wife’s feelings that are waning. She really has to want to reestablish something or else no amount of trying to “fix” it will bring her feelings back.

ContrasexualWoman · 2018-02-26T12:50:01+00:00

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today?

Yes. Many men and women do this, even during the very early stages of the relationship. However, this seems to be based almost entirely in low confidence or feelings of insecurity, which sometimes have double standards to go along with them. When I attempted to do some online dating last year, I put full disclosure in my profile...32F, childfree, never married, financially responsible and independent, polyamourous, looking for a male lover in addition to the other 2 I'm with. Got quite a few messages from guys who were very interested in the fact I didn't have offspring or "emotional baggage" from a divorce, and a decent number said they were poly with other women as well...but that they expected me to drop my current lovers once we started dating and "he began providing for me", something I didn't want. Not a single one of them was cool with the idea of me having multiple guys, they just wanted to have multiple women. From what I've seen of some failed marriages spoken of online, this is not a rare viewpoint of men, the idea of sexual exclusivity for their partners but not for them. Of course, some women do this too, but it isn't as common.

Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as "just a piece of paper"?

Lol. If the female callers to the Tom Leykis show are any indication, the majority of women don't see marriage as just a piece of paper.

By extension, is this why people are so quick to divorce when marriage gets hard? Because they have been conditioned to see relationships as "mini marriages," and when you're tired of a relationship you break up.

Because a lot of people are selfish, care only for their own self-interests, or are apathetic towards others if there's no immediate/soon to come benefit to staying. Many men and women are terrible at setting long term goals and sticking to them, unfortunately.

Do you think this trend (if you agree that it exists) is good or bad?

Bad. Individuals would benefit greatly from more reflection on what they actually want from life and what standards of behavior they expect from themselves and others. Otherwise you're just going through life making shit up as you go.

carefreevermillion · 2018-02-26T17:38:26+00:00

I definitely think there is a growing trend for people to treat their relationships like marriage, as I'm part of it. I'm in an almost 2 year LTR and we've been living together for 1.5 years. We cook and clean together, split bills, and go on vacations together. We know that we are essentially in a common law marriage and that legitimately married life will not be very different.

However unlike most people our age (20-23) marriage has always been taken seriously as the next step by both of us. In our estimation that's when we join our financial lives together and become a business team. That mentality is the driving force behind our solidarity.

My boyfriend and I have agreed that divorce is not an option once we're married because we intend to invest in real estate and I will be starting a small business. Our financial lives will be too entangled and our children will need us to be pillars of stability.

I think the core problems with relationships today are as follows:

Marriage is a business arrangement, not happily ever after. If you can't talk money with them effectively, you shouldn't get married.
The core pillars of a strong relationship are communication and commitment. Overpowering infatuation is nice, but ultimately fades. Developing a friendship is critical to success.
Sex is absolutely important and I would never say to anyone they should tolerate a dead bedroom, but again, friendship comes first. I have the higher sex drive in my relationship, and while it's difficult sometimes, I have never considered leaving because I truly want to support and grow alongside my boyfriend. His friendship (as part of our relationship) is more important to me than a physical itch. Too many relationships are founded on purely sexual desire with little to no mental compatibility.

exit_sandman · 2018-02-26T20:33:40+00:00

This was interesting to me, because as someone who dated my husband for 6 years before marriage, married life doesn't feel as "different" as everyone assured me it would. People come up to me and ask how married life is... and I don't know what to say. Good? Normal? Exactly the same as it has felt for the last 6 years? Because I have been prioritizing him and treating him as a husband for a very, very long time now.

My hunch is that the people who said that probably have a dating life that's different from yours. If you've dated around, then happen to find "the one" (whatever that means) and marry him or her pretty soon afterwards (permanently or temporarily) of course being married feels different to dating - after all, you probably never really treated dating as if it was on a trajectory for marriage in the first place.

Anecdote time! An acquaintance of my parents (15ish years younger than them tho) had been in a relationship with his GF for 6 years until he finally gave in (she was the one who had been eager to marry all the time) and proposed to her. When he asked my parents what had changed after their marriage they frankly said "nothing", which seemed to disconcert him.

Why didn't it change anything for them? Because they had been in a relationship since their early 20s, had been quite serious from the start from what I know and married 4 years later.

He on the other hand - while also having been with his GF since his early 20s at the time - wasn't really on board with it, had to be peer-pressured into it (his best friend had married his wife before him even though he had met her only 2 years or so before that) and on top of that has had an affair with some hoe for 1 year at the time - however, for some weird-ass reason he thought that marrying would somehow salvage the relationship and was flabbergasted when it didn't really change anything. And I guess that this (minus the cheating) is also the reason why so many year long LTRs crash pretty soon after they've been turned into marriages - because the people involved assume that marriage is some magical fairy dust that automatically turns lackluster relationships you aren't really sure about into happy and committed ones.

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today? Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as "just a piece of paper"?

Well, for those people who treat relationships like marriages this may be a reason; otherwise they would be on a marriage trajectory. That said, I think there are plenty of people who don't see relationships like marriages but instead consider them something that's okay-ish for the moment and better than being single, but which is bound to be dropped at a moment's notice when they meet "the one".

by extension, is this why people are so quick to divorce when marriage gets hard? Because they have been conditioned to see relationships as "mini marriages," and when you're tired of a relationship you break up.

I would argue that quick divorces come because people have been conditioned to see relationships as disposable to some extent (though I have to add this is possible because relationships without marriage are the norm). Pretty much everything you do is hardest when done for the first time: the first time approaching a girl, the first kiss, the first sex, the first actual fight, the first jump from a cliff, killing someone for the first time (before you ask: no first hand experiences here)... and also suffering the first breakup and instigating the first breakup yourself. The anxiety of being about to break someone's heart and the experience of going through with it, also the experience of being on your own again, the anxiety of how long it takes you to replace that relationship... all this is something that prevents people from breaking up in the first place; and going through the motions again and again numbs you against its fallout. And when you're already used to breaking up, doing it again (even for comparably minor reasons, and even when you're married) isn't really a challenge anymore - and it becomes even easier when you've already experienced a relationship where you've been happier on a subjective level. Hence TRP warning men of committing to women with a history like that.

newName543456 · 2018-02-27T09:34:00+00:00

People should have freedom to associate and dissociate with/from whoever they want to. If this freedom is limited, it's marriage as institution that is a problem, not people's mindset that causes marriage to fail. Better to reinvent idea of marriage into more workable solution rather than force people to change just to fit preconceived notions.

[deleted] · 2018-02-26T04:36:39+00:00

Not by sleeping around or riding the CC, but spending the time before marriage prioritizing your own goals, self-actualization, and work-- and not making your SO your #1 priority until after marriage.

^{^{^{^Funny}}} how one leads to the other ~

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today?

Maybe in terms of romantic feelings and living in - but not in terms of financial obligations.

Do you think this trend (if you agree that it exists) is good or bad?

It seems irrelevant in the bigger context of how marriage is much easier to dissolve and to grant financial benefits to one party

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madscientistlove · 2018-02-26T06:34:10+00:00

Non-American here, but I'll take a crack at this.

"In today's culture, if I'm dating you, I'm married to you...And even if we don't think it, this is how we act"

This depends very much on the age of the people in question. The college-going crowd seems to fulfill this quote, while working adults are the direct opposite (the same goes for college students who work part-time, regardless of whether they're living on their own or not)

I have not committed to shut down everything that I do to become one with you. Because that's what happens when you get married.

Hold on a second, is the speaker meaning this literally or metaphorically? If my partner asked me to stop learning about evolution so I can help put an end to the creation-evolution "controversy" (among other things), that would be grounds for an instant dumping. Otherwise, I agree with the "maximizing one's singleness" part as you mentioned - prioritizing goals, work and self-actualization.

Do you think this has to do with marriage as "just a piece of paper" ?

Does treating relationships like marriage have anything to do with the view that marriage is "just a piece of paper"? (Sorry if this sounds rude, I'm just trying to make the question easier to process)

Sure. If they think it's as simple as that, they have little reason to put in any effort to make romantic relationships work. I also think that they don't quite understand the magnitude of the commitment that's demanded of them.

Do you think this trend is good or bad?

Not entirely sure.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-02-26T09:58:40+00:00

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today?

I can't compare to the past from personal experience but yes I'd say people these days tend to take LTRs seriously without marriage.

People stay in these relationships for years, and it'd be very weird to turn around five years later and break up for no reason. By that point it's assumed you're committed to your partner and would only break up if there were actual issues between you.

Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as "just a piece of paper"?

Probably yes. Outside of religious communities there is no real reason to get married other than "my family keeps nagging me to", it just gets the state involved in your personal relationship at little or no benefit to yourself.

Couples already discuss and agree on commitment by the time they've been together for years anyway.

By extension, is this why people are so quick to divorce when marriage gets hard? Because they have been conditioned to see relationships as "mini marriages," and when you're tired of a relationship you break up.

It could very well play a part yes. But I think a bigger factor is that marrying for love is a relatively novel idea whereas in the past marriage was more about convenience or wealth transfer. So the nature of marriage is changed because the reasons we enter into it have changed so drastically.

Do you think this trend (if you agree that it exists) is good or bad?

On a societal level I'm pretty much apathetic about it, don't care one way or the other what other people do.

In my own personal view as it pertains to my self-interests, I consider it a good thing because marriage is very risky and I don't have to choose between that and staying alone. I can choose to have an LTR without marriage or even just have a FWB if I want easy access to sex without any kind of real commitment at all.

wtknight · 2018-02-26T14:25:36+00:00

Do you agree with what the speaker said? Do people treat relationships like marriages today?

Like traditional marriages? No, because the reason they are staying in just relationships is because there is no legal hassle with having to extricate oneself from a long-term relationship, except in a common law marriage state, perhaps. People are guarding against break-ups way too much because they are anticipating that there is a good chance that the relationship will not last, and it speaks to people's lack of commitment in general to the idea of a permanent partner for life.

Do you think this has to do with the view of marriage as "just a piece of paper"?

As I said, people these days view marriage as a potential legal hassle, at least in the back of their minds behind all of the traditional, positive connotations of marriage. It's even worse than just a piece of paper in this sense. As women often benefit more from a divorce than men, they are less likely to see it in this sense, although even women have to deal with hassles like visitation agreements if there are children involved. And, more women are marrying men who make less money than them and this will likely happen even more in the future, so they now also have to worry about things like alimony and child support.

By extension, is this why people are so quick to divorce when marriage gets hard? Because they have been conditioned to see relationships as "mini marriages," and when you're tired of a relationship you break up.

I believe that women divorce most often when they see a potentially better life for themselves without their husband, whether it is by finding a better man or because they feel their husband drags her down from her other goals or whether he doesn't pay enough attention to her or whatever. Men who divorce divorce mostly from lack of sex, I believe. Vows aren't really taken seriously anymore. But mostly, divorce has increased because it's possible for a woman to live single now while in the past this kind of life was not as possible.

Do you think this trend (if you agree that it exists) is good or bad?

Overall I think it's bad because it hurts children more. But if one doesn't have children, then I don't think it's good or bad. It's just how people's minds have become. Why spend one's life not being as happy as one can possibly be just because of a vow that one made in the past?

Merger-Arbitrage · 2018-02-26T18:06:43+00:00

A monogamous/closed relationship where two people have emotional attachment to one another is no different than marriage, pretty much exactly as you said in your OP. I felt the same way as well. Marriage is just a legal concept.. a formality. Not sure why people would think something would change...

AstuteBlackMan · 2018-02-26T18:24:32+00:00

I think it's more of them having the intentions of getting married. Which makes sense because why would you wait till marriage to practice being married. If you officially both establish you're in it long term then take it seriously.

Problem lies in people being infatuated with their SO and idolizing them in every way possible.

Point being is people don't know how to love.

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Title	Do people in today's culture treat relationships like marriage?
Author	madscientistlove
Upvotes	9
Comments	98
Date	February 26, 2018 4:28 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/80aahz/do_people_in_todays_culture_treat_relationships/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-people-in-todays-culture-treat-relationships.263461 https://theredarchive.com/post/263461

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