Your experiences with men/women are what causes your opinion of them, but your opinions aren’t true for all members of the opposite gender

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-02-01T22:55:00+00:00

Great post, OP. Now come over here and let us help you pat yourself on the back.

Belfura · 2018-02-01T22:30:37+00:00

Well yeah? I mean, it being an opinion aside, it sounds like common sense. But people who buy too much into it tend to give the dumbest kneejerk reactions.

fiat_lux_ · 2018-02-01T23:56:14+00:00

You're talking about moral opinions. E.g. angry men and women attributing moral value to each other due to negative experiences. "Women treated me badly, they must all be whores!" / "Men treated me badly, they're really all just rapists!" You can tell these opinions come from high emotions.

Opinions about gender/sex we discuss here aren't all moral though.

It takes objectivity to have judgments about men and women regardless of experience. I've had almost purely positive experiences with women, but that won't make me think they are physically stronger, callous, socially stubborn, aggressive, risk-taking, etc relative to men. That doesn't mean that I dislike them.

None of these judgments have to be moral judgments coming from a place of anger. They can also just come from having eyes.

[deleted] · 2018-02-01T22:27:39+00:00

cursedbylot · 2018-02-01T23:05:15+00:00

You do understand that no form of inductive reason has a philosophical underpinning right? There is no way to know that the laws of gravity, physics, and science we know to operate today will continue to operate tomorrow. And yet here we all are acting as if we do.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-02-01T22:34:24+00:00

Not all women ditch their man whenever they find a higher value man.

What ruins you more in this respect isn't getting ditched for higher value, it's being the higher value man and watching women trample all over whatever guy they're currently with

cxj · 2018-02-02T02:55:57+00:00

In other words: NAWALT

What a new novel post. How tf did this get upvoted? Who is this n00b

KrispyMcSockington · 2018-02-02T05:56:56+00:00

You are right, OP. But that doesn't mean we should throw our hands up, resign ourselves to our fate and be stuck with poor dating culture when we can change things. There are great people out there but they are outnumbered by the assholes. Most relationships don't work and, while your argument makes sense on individual levels where the average person will not date 51% of the opposite sex, there are trends we can observe to give ourselves more informed opinions. These trends or patterns emerge almost across the board for a reason and knowing these reasons will help.

Maybe you are Chad and it's easy to use the 'not all people x' argument, but then what? And what do we do about unfair reactions due to those opinions, such as sexist laws or peoples' reputations and careers being ruined? You can afford to be positive about your relationship experiences because you admit you are lucky.

And based on your premise, someone could argue that your positive opinions are not true for the opposite gender, and we'd get nowhere. It's a nice opinion and you are right based on your experiences, but it's little comfort to people who were abused or who experienced the same shit from different people.

ConsumingImpulse · 2018-02-01T22:50:11+00:00

What about what you don't know about those previous relationships? The capacity for being a shit human being exists in everyone. We're all selfish. People tend to show what they want to be seen in relationships.

Scatre · 2018-02-01T23:51:29+00:00

Uhh, what's your point exactly?

stats135 · 2018-02-02T02:12:20+00:00

your opinions aren’t true for all members of the opposite gender

The very nature of opinions is that they are subjective. I don't let emotions dictate my decisions. This is why I need to make judgement off of raw data, statistics, and sound judgement. I prioritize certain questions. What do the statistics on frequency of sex look like? What are the marriage and divorce rates? How do the alimony/ divorce laws work where I live? I try to avoid allowing opinions that can cloud my judgement. But somehow this very act is deemed women hating because it "dehumanizes" them for some reason or other. Of course you can form some opinions. But if any of those are negative, then you are also a women hating misogynist.

So while it sounds nice, what really happen is that unless we all have nothing other than positive opinions of women just like you, we are women-haters.

pinkgoldrose · 2018-02-01T23:40:33+00:00

Can we elect this guy as our leader?

reluctantly_red · 2018-02-02T00:00:28+00:00

I've said it before -- AWALT is hyperbole. However, that doesn't mean its not a useful rule of thumb.

Also, I don't base my opinion on only the women in my life. Observations of how women have treated friends, relatives, and coworkers also contribute. Based on these observations it does seem that there are indeed gender specific negative behaviors. Behaviors that are unfortunately far too common.

[deleted] · 2018-02-02T00:50:57+00:00

Your experiences with men/women are what causes your opinion of them, but your opinions aren’t true for all members of the opposite gender

The irony of the OP is amazing. The OP says that our experiences with men and women are what shapes "your opinion of them" but not all opinions are true for all people.

Ok. Then the OP follows up by saying this:

Generally, what I see from women-hating men is that either women have treated them terribly in relationships, or that they haven’t had much luck finding women at all.

but the OP self-identifies as a man and says,

Clearly, not all women are as good as the ones that I’ve dated because I’ve heard plenty of stories. I would also consider myself a guy who treats women well, and I’m 100% positive that my exes, my current girlfriend, and all of their friends would say the same thing.

The OP is validating his own views by using anecdotal testimony from people who we will never know and who will never speak for themselves about the issue.

[deleted] · 2018-02-01T22:28:23+00:00

its an opinion. it doesn't have to be true.

GriimFandango · 2018-02-02T08:59:40+00:00

oh yeah, well.. that might make sense and all.. but what about my narcissism..what about my postmodern subjectivist outlook on the world? What about my unwillingness to solve my problems? What if I prefer to project?

[deleted] · 2018-02-02T09:30:49+00:00

Great post. A balanced perspective. I've meet man-haters IRL, and one thing they all had in common once they let their guard down - PAIN! Same shit applies with the genders reversed. We would come a long way to solving the gender divide if people stopped being such assholes to each other, and that shit goes both ways. This also means honesty even when it's inconvenient, and that ALSO goes both ways. Neither gender can honestly claim a monopoly on morality.

gasparddelanuit · 2018-02-03T08:24:09+00:00

People's opinions are not entirely driven by their personal experiences and I think most reasonable people can and do factor in information from multiple sources, within and outside of their experience.

Clearly, we have the capacity to observe the world around us, learn from the experiences of others, learn from various sources of knowledge and use our own reason to connect the dots and make sense of it all.

Discerning people don't just base their knowledge on their personal experiences. That would be stupid.

mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-02-01T23:28:55+00:00

[deleted]

newName543456 · 2018-02-01T23:27:15+00:00

Not all do, but all would if they could get away with it.

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Salty-Bastard · 2018-02-02T02:26:52+00:00

I would agree. Especially damage done in the 0-14 age range. Uncle Milty got handsy when you were 11, you're going to be very cautious of men, or if the damage was great enough you would find other Uncle Miltys to re-live your trauma. Mom beat you with a coat hanger and told you she wished you were never born? You'll probably seek out a female dominate relationship looking to make your "mom" happy and earn her validation and love. The world is a fucked up place, live long enough and chances are you'll see it all.

deeman010 · 2018-02-02T04:19:44+00:00

Isn’t this just what everyone goes through with everything?

Ex. I got burned investing in tech companies so I’m avoiding them despite not all being bad investments.

Negative and positive emotions tied to our previous experiences is just the way we experience the world. I don’t blame anyone for resenting anyone. Yes, I am saying that there is justification behind discrimination and all the isms (they just probably aren’t true anymore).

[deleted] · 2018-02-02T05:34:03+00:00

What's your longest relationship OP?

oneprettycoolcat · 2018-02-02T05:45:22+00:00

No, but people do generally behave similarly to one another. There are exceptions, yes, but that doesn't make generalities useless.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-02-02T17:46:41+00:00

tldr; NAWAMALT

/thread

now can this thread please not be the top thread anymore? this peace and getting along is BOOORRRRRINGGGG back to the merciless bloodshed please.

Nephilim8 · 2018-02-02T17:57:29+00:00

I have a different theory. I think a lot of the SMP/RMP has to do with the environment you're in. I grew up in a small midwestern town. There was a limited set of boys/girls in this environment. Women had more options than men did, but it was a limited set of people, so women's ability to "date up" was pretty limited. I felt like things were okay there for the most part.

However, growing up, I was shy and quiet. This harmed me to some extent, although I did manage to get some girlfriends. After college, I moved to a major city. I did pretty badly at dating once I left college. I was still shy and quiet and got really nervous about approaching/asking-out girls. During this time, I did have a girlfriend for over two years, but after we broke up, I was single for over four years. I mostly blamed myself for my terrible dating life. After I was there a few years, I started to hear that the male/female ratios were pretty skewed in the city. I looked it up, and sure enough, the male/female ratio in my neighborhood was 151 men:100 women according to official census data. I remember one of my female friends talking about how much better it was dating in my city compared to the city in Ohio she had moved from (Cleveland, I believe). Basically, in my city, men were fighting like crazy over a small pool of women. This made it easy for women, and difficult for men. Over a period of many years (and some long term relationships, followed by long periods of not dating), I did get better about approaching and meeting women. The problem is that women still have the upper hand in the dating market. Men were still fighting over a small pool of women, which gave women the idea that they had infinite options, so they were flakey and disinterested and had no problem replacing a guy if he got tired of him. I had to date-down in order to have a dating life. Of course, that doesn't work out in the long-run, either, because I'd frequently loose attraction for girls I was dating. I have noticed that my male friends who have a good dating life are usually dating-down; but they seem to be unaware of it. There are quite a few times when I'm thinking, "He could do a lot better than her, but as long as he's happy, I'm not going to tell him and ruin it for him." I remember one guy friend of mine was living with his girlfriend for years, and during the final few years of their relationship, she wouldn't get a job. He was paying for everything. (Just one example of "dating down".)

My experience of women over the past five years or so (when I was mostly past my shyness and difficultly talking to women who are strangers) has been massive amounts of rejection, flakiness, cheating and lying from women that I feel are "on my level". When I "date down", those women tend to be better behaved, which I assume happens because they have fewer options than more attractive women, and they felt like they were "dating up".

My point in all this is to say that I think most of people's experience is heavily influenced by the environment they're in. I think many women in major cities, and women who live in environments with too many men (causing men to constantly approach women) believe they have infinite options, so they think they can "hold out" for a guy who's several steps higher than them on the SMV/RMV scale. I also think there can be a culture among women for wanting the best guy that they can "show off" to their friends (which I think can happen in sororities, and among younger 20-something women). I also think that social media like instagram also inflates women's ideas about their own attractiveness. I imagine that this has less of an effect in, say, high school. I have female friends in their 20s who can pull-down 300 to 400 likes every time they post a selfie on instagram. It's crazy, and I can't help but think that it distorts women's opinions of themselves. I also think that men who are happy dating down (without knowing it) are going to have an easier time with it.

All of those factors are going to vary from place to place. I generally had positive opinions of women up until, say, five years ago, when I made a shift from blaming myself for my poor dating life, and took a more active role in seeking out women. Along with taking a more active role in approaching women came all kinds of crap (disinterest, constant rejection, flakiness - e.g. I'd get a girl's phone number, but she's ignore me when I texted her later, ghosting out of conversations, getting stood-up on dates, cheating, lying, etc).

dylang92 · 2018-02-03T00:23:09+00:00

OP I gotta ask, besides being skinny and shy, do you had a good face?

Nordicflame · 2018-02-02T00:42:30+00:00

I think that anyone who has a negative or nasty opinion of the other gender is mentally ill. Even if you have had bad experiences it is not OK to generalise and say hurtful things about people, based on gender, sexuality or race.

aqStorm · 2018-02-02T01:06:12+00:00

I probably hate women but i still get laid, it's odd, how can a woman hater get pussy, it's beyond me.

[deleted] · 2018-02-01T22:33:37+00:00

Generally, what I see from women-hating men is that either women have treated them terribly in relationships, or that they haven’t had much luck finding women at all.

Or those women-hating men:

--suck at choosing compatible/suitable women

--are unattractive

--don't understand the sexual and relationship marketplaces

What I see from men-hating women is the same thing. Men either have treated them terribly or they just haven’t been able to find men.

Or those men-hating women:

--suck at choosing compatible/suitable men

--are unattractive

--don't understand the sexual and relationship marketplaces

Um. What do you want to debate? Are you presenting a view for challenge? From what I can tell, that view is:

Not All Women are Like That

Not All Men are Like That

Some people are shitty, some people are good

Um. OK.

Anything else?

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