CMV: Women aren't attracted to "alpha" men.

sublimemongrel · 2017-09-14T21:10:37+00:00

OP I prefer the "alpha/beta" traits dichotomy, rather than characterizing a person that way. The reason being, there are very few men that have just alpha traits or just beta traits, most have both.

Under this conception of "alpha/beta" you have your more masculine traits as "alpha" and your more comforting traits as "beta." It is true that women, in general are attracted to traits of masculinity. It is also entirely true that these traits, if taken too far, can turn women off. It is true that women, in general want a man to LTR/date who has beta qualities, a man without beta traits would make a terrible partner to most women. The mistake you are making (at least under my conception of "alpha/beta") is that you are associating "alpha" with only the bad alpha traits, which is sort of ironic since terpers tend to do the exact opposite and associate alpha with only "good" traits they aspire to be. Confidence, for example, is an alpha trait. Which isn't to say beta = wimpy doormat, but if you had to describe confidence on the alpha/beta spectrum, it's alpha.

What I believe is that the men women are attracted to, and the men women want to date, are men with the good alpha traits and the men with the good beta traits. Best of both worlds. If, under your conception, "alpha" = "all the bad selfish DGAF traits", than you're right women wouldn't necessarily want to date them. However, some women still might be attracted to them.

Littleknownfacts · 2017-09-14T21:01:09+00:00

You seem to have zeroed in on negative alpha traits and skimmed over the positive ones. You know what else women like? Men that are assertive. Men that get what they want by any means necessary. Men who aren't afraid to go against the tide for his convictions.

dakru · 2017-09-14T21:14:25+00:00

Women don't want men who are selfish or cocky. I mean what benefit is that to a her? How is a guy spending most of the time in the gym pumping his muscles up going to help a woman?

When it comes to sexual attraction, you can't prove that someone doesn't find something attractive by saying that it doesn't "help" them. We have deep-seated sexual desires (from millions of years of evolution and various environmental influences) that don't necessarily have anything to do with practical benefit. A woman having large breasts doesn't "help" a man on any practical level, but a hell of a lot of men will find themselves strongly drawn to her sexually.

Women want men that care about them and respect them. They want men that appreciate their ideas and listen to them. They want men that will help them in a time of need or if they are in emotional turmoil. They want men who comfort them.

Is that all? Do they also like men who are exciting, assertive, confident, good leaders, spontaneous, charismatic, etc.? All of those are "alpha" traits.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-09-14T22:45:12+00:00

Who do women FUCK?

there's your answer

[deleted] · 2017-09-14T22:54:40+00:00

Women want ATTRACTIVE men....who also care about them, respect them, appreciate their ideas, listen to them, comforts them, etc, etc, etc. All those qualities listed mean fuck all if the guy isn't attractive. So many guys with NONE of those positive attributes still do reasonably well, simply because they are ATTRACTIVE. "NiceGuy/Beta Male" qualities are APPRECIATED if coming from an ATTRACTIVE man, and "asshole" behavior is far too often TOLERATED if coming from an attractive man. If a man is UN-attractive (short, ugly, fat, physically awkward, or worse, has a visible disability), he gains no advantage over his competition for possessing "inner beauty", and to make matters worse, he's pretty much disqualified from the dating game unless he's willing to settle for a relationship that is far more transactional in nature than either partner is willing to admit. What's the lesson to be learned in all this? Above all else, BE ATTRACTIVE!

prodigy2throw · 2017-09-14T21:14:05+00:00

Your assessment of women's wants is way too broad. It doesn't account for why some women date abusive men, men who are selfish, egotistical, etc.

Also, what women say they want and what they actually want are two different things. Also, women can want different things from different men. Or different things from the same man depending on what stage in life she is in.

bonersNlaughs · 2017-09-14T20:59:36+00:00

50 shades of gray was just banter

DarkLord0chinChin · 2017-09-14T21:12:20+00:00

Reinforcing sexist TRP stereotypes one post at a time

MagicGainbow · 2017-09-14T21:14:20+00:00

Women want men that care about them and respect them. They want men that appreciate their ideas and listen to them. They want men that will help them in a time of need or if they are in emotional turmoil. They want men who comfort them.

Not only have I seen the opposite but even the media teaches you that the type of men you describe are seen as soft and wimpy, you are describing an emotional tampon, not a partner.

Women don't want men who are selfish or cocky. I mean what benefit is that to a her?

On a conscious level it does not, but attraction is subconscious and thinks in genetic terms.

How is a guy spending most of the time in the gym pumping his muscles up going to help a woman? Most women don't want men who have ridiculous standards for sex either.

How is a guy spending most of the time in the gym pumping his muscles up going to help a woman?

Muscles are an indicator of fitness/ability to protect.

Most women don't want men who have ridiculous standards for sex either.

True, but like all people they will play the game if he's hot.

Women don't want to be someone's submissive toy, they want someone who will do things for them and show them kindness and respect.

I have tried both and the former approach works, the later approach is great if you want to attract a woman that will settle for you.

washington_breadstix · 2017-09-15T00:29:22+00:00

Women want men that care about them and respect them. They want men that appreciate their ideas and listen to them.

Women don't want to be someone's submissive toy, they want someone who will do things for them and show them kindness and respect.

They want men that will help them in a time of need or if they are in emotional turmoil.

These are things that a woman (or anyone, for that matter) would desire in a long-term relationship, but no one cares about those qualities for a one-night stand.

Red-pill guys are trying to become "sexually successful," a.k.a. attractive enough to get whatever type of romantic/sexual interaction they want from women essentially on-demand. This includes everything from one-night hookups to long-term relationships where both parties remain 100% faithful.

And the unfortunate truth is that you can't achieve one-night stands just by showing a woman kindness and respect. That's textbook nice guy syndrome and it will get you a one-way ticket to the abhorred "friend zone."

When you say a woman isn't attracted to men who are vain, selfish or cocky, I agree with you insofar as she isn't attracted to those men because they're vain, selfish and cocky. As in, if you asked her why she's attracted to a man, she's not going to give "selfish and cocky" as an answer.

However, it's those same "selfish and cocky" men who tend to also display traits that the majority of heterosexual women do like. They're domineering and will take the lead in social interactions. They will make the approaches and put themselves out there. They will not display emotional attachment too quickly. They will give the woman an opportunity to feel as though she's along for the ride in this man's genuinely exciting life. That's alpha, and women are sure as hell attracted to it.

PaperStreetVilla · 2017-09-14T21:05:41+00:00

Men aren't alpha.

alpha are groupings of behaviours. And by definition, if they aren't attractive to women, they aren't alpha behaviours.

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-09-14T22:01:22+00:00

It's not a black and white thing. A guy is not either an alpha guy or a beta doormat. Most women like someone in between. Someone who's kind, honest, true to themselves, but will stand up themselves if someone else mistreats them, and knows how to express themselves rather than bottling it all in.

[deleted] · 2017-09-14T22:34:11+00:00

Alpha is about generics not behaviour so no, women are attracted to alpha men.

BPremium · 2017-09-14T22:58:01+00:00

They are attracted to Hawt masculine men. Those types of assholes tend to be the Alphas youre describing. When women stop choosing hot douchebags, those negative traits youre complaining about will disappear. Cause those negative traits are only exhibited by hot douchebags that can get away with it.

Entropy-7 · 2017-09-15T06:36:45+00:00

The OP is at least subconsciously aware that their argument is going nowhere since they put "alpha" and "beta" in quotes. Alpha males are by definition (sexually) attractive to women. Just go to the sidebar glossary at TRP. Beta traits are a bit more tricky in that I would say they are not directly sexually attractive, but will attract women seeking resources, comfort, validation and such, but taken too an extreme can be repulsive. What woman here wants a self-sacrificing doormat?

I'm not sure if I have to re-invent the wheel here, but if we change the OP's dysphemisms is there really any question that women want a man who is independent, confident and good looking/muscular.

And on the last point, the mantra of "lift" is to get guys off of their skinny/fat/skinny-fat ass and into the gym to improve their looks, their health, their confidence and bien-etre (endorphins are your friend). It's not "most of the time" it is 4 hours a week. Is there any question which version of this guy is more attractive to women?

Women don't want to be someone's submissive toy

It's in between some and most - at least in the bedroom - IME.

they want someone who will do things for them

BINGO! And when men finally say "NO!" there are cries of "MISOGYNY!"

The crux is that you can't argue with a tautology; the second point is that opinions will vary. I mean, you can't "challenge my view" if it is completely subjective quirk rather than a general statement about reality.

[deleted] · 2017-09-15T14:01:29+00:00

You're confusing the men who women want relationships with, with the men who women want to fuck.

[deleted] · 2017-09-14T20:54:43+00:00

Women want attractive men that care about them and respect them. They want attractive men that appreciate their ideas and listen to them. They want attractive men that will help them in a time of need or if they are in emotional turmoil. They want attractive men who comfort them.

Fixed that for you

Women don't want men who are selfish or cocky. I mean what benefit is that to a her?

Evowutionarily speaking a selfish man would have taken things a less selfish one would not. The trick is getting him to share it

BiggerDthanYou · 2017-09-14T21:04:57+00:00

TRP is less about facts (in fact they seem to have the same relationship/aversion to facts as any other conspiracy board), but more about what helps completely clueless guys with very low emotional intelligence.

Let's say you have been brought up in a basement completely secluded from society and all you know about dating is based on Disney movies. One day you leave your hole and try your luck.

You act like the perfect gentlesir and treat women like fragile little princesses that deserve absolute devotion because that's what you assume they must all like, but it's fruitless because they either treat you like their gay friends because they assume that you are asexual or they abuse your niceness and manipulate you into being a nice little slave for them.

This complete beta behavior is even less attractive as complete alpha behavior and you don't understand the world anymore. Cool guys with a spine, that approach women and show sexual interest would be the villian in a Disney movie, but here they are dating the women that turned you down even though you gave them flowers and even wrote a poem.

Now add some TRP and this complete beta will hopefully turn into normal person that manages to find a balance between alpha and beta. You've got to consider that they are never as alpha in real life as they try to present themselves online.

A normal person that takes TRP at face value would turn into an obnoxious douchebag that as you said isn't as attractive as someone who's less alpha and more beta, but the guys that come to TRP in the first place have so little alpha and so much beta that it can actually be helpful for them to be more alpha.

RockinSocksII · 2017-09-14T22:13:09+00:00

Can I get an automod up in here?

TheBookOfSeil · 2017-09-14T22:48:18+00:00

So you're saying that women aren't at all attracted to genetically and physically strong, capable, intelligent, and handsome men? That's essentially what the word "Alpha" means. Other attributes are misinterpretations gained from context.

nazis_are_socialists · 2017-09-15T00:23:26+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6ouwnc/science_says_women_most_attracted_to_arrogance/

Alpha men exhibit good genes, this is what women are primarily attracted to when they're ovulating because they subconsciously want to pass these superior genes on to their offspring. Beta men exhibit provider traits, which is what women are primarily attracted to the rest of the month because they want someone who will provide for her and her children.

Respecting women, being unselfish, caring about things other than sex, comforting her, etc....all of these things are irrelevant when it comes to demonstrating superior genetics, and irrelevant when it comes to getting a woman in bed. The fact is that muscular, arrogant, confrontative men who disrespect women, are selfish, and only want sex are more successful at bedding women than guys who aren't like that.

It's the AF/BB dichotomy right there, and science backs it up.

capitaliststooge · 2017-09-15T00:39:33+00:00

Women want men that care about them and respect them. They want men that appreciate their ideas and listen to them. They want men that will help them in a time of need or if they are in emotional turmoil. They want men who comfort them.

This applies to all women? All the time?

As a whole, women aren't into alpha men.

Your conception of an 'alpha male' is overly rigid and cartoonish. I hope you realize that.

[deleted] · 2017-09-15T02:36:42+00:00

The whole concept of alpha as described by terpers makes me think of insecure manchildren prone to tantrums.

What's attractive about that

mistresswhat · 2017-09-15T05:24:48+00:00

I don't think you're entirely wrong -- I do think TRP wildly overrates the extent to which all women everywhere are attracted to "alpha traits," and they tend to latch onto the wrong ones when describing what women are attracted to. It's mostly just that a lot of so-called "alpha traits" indicate that the man in question has his shit together.

But there are some women who are totally into it. This is why TRP overestimates how much it works on women as a whole -- they acquire a manlier persona, and when they have success with it they assume they've become somewhat more attractive across the board rather than exponentially more attractive to a smaller group of women.

I have a theory that women who are into manly man types like them in part because they require less emotional labor. The selfishness and cockiness aren't the turn-on. It's the ease of being with someone who "takes charge" by planning dates and doesn't require a lot of ego-stroking or emotional comfort.

This is also why TRP is so convinced that your wife will cheat on you if you open up to her. The women they attract by being masculine and stoic are turned off by being cried on, but it's easier to scream AWALT than it is to take an honest look at who you're attracting and how you're choosing partners. My type could not be farther from TRP's alpha bullshit persona, and I've spent a fair amount of time comforting partners and talking them through insecurities. I don't find it a turn-off, although like basically every other human on the earth I find it pretty irritating. I'll do it anyway because I understand it's sometimes necessary and I don't like seeing someone I care about in emotional pain.

Debra_Lou · 2017-09-15T09:59:58+00:00

The main mistake trp makes is thinking women are primarily attracted to behavior (and douchy behavior at that). This is simply untrue but they cling to the notion because I guess it's easier to cope then and cling to the notion they can become attractive. The thing is, they can't. Most of what makes a guy sexually attractive (height, build, prenatal male hormone exposure indicators that affects the face etc heck even youth to a certain extend -young attractive females aren't into 40/50+ gross old dudes) is completely out of their control. But again, cope and all that.

Now sexually attractive men do tend to have certain personalities traits, they do tend to be more confident etc which makes sense; if you're more successful at something you'll tend to be more confident but it's not the confidence itself that's attractive. Basically trp can't tell correlation and effects from their asses.

Title	CMV: Women aren't attracted to "alpha" men.
Author	ppdthrowaway43
Upvotes	4
Comments	182
Date	September 14, 2017 6:47 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/704ag7/cmv_women_arent_attracted_to_alpha_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-women-arent-attracted-to-alpha-men.266076 https://theredarchive.com/post/266076

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