CMV: The idea of "enthusiastic consent" is unrealistic and is intended to make it very hard to actually get consent

GoldPisseR · 2017-04-18T07:44:23+00:00

Is it worth enough risking a rape accusation?

DocNMarty · 2017-04-18T06:01:28+00:00

You also can't tell if someone is truly excited or enthusiastic, as this is highly subjective and varies individually.

Uh yeah, you can.

If you have to convince yourself that she wants it, I guarantee you that she doesn't.

wtknight · 2017-04-18T11:18:02+00:00

It's designed to make it difficult to get consent for drunken hook-up sex. It's fairly easy to get enthusiastic consent for sober sex.

MarriedLifter · 2017-04-18T10:07:20+00:00

This is another one of those moments where PPD makes me feel like:

I must be this mythical Chad you speak of, and
I must have bloody amazing social skills,

...because the enthusiasm was always pretty damn noticeable, to the point that it was often me putting on the brakes. (I was never interested in casual flings, and I wanted a little time for vetting and getting to know someone.)

Except I'm not actually Chad, and I was mostly oblivious to female interest unless somebody was thumping me over the head with it. So really, enthusiasm seems like a pretty low bar to me.

And if you're so bad at reading people that you can't tell whether or not they're into it, then sheesh, give 'em at least 2 or 3 dates and then use your words.

rathyAro · 2017-04-18T06:12:30+00:00

Why would you even want to risk sleeping with someone who doesn't want to sleep with you? What good can come from anything but an absolutely certain yes? If you're really willing to sleep with mild interest in you are way too thirsty.

EliteSpartanRanger · 2017-04-18T14:43:16+00:00

You also can't tell if someone is truly excited or enthusiastic, as this is highly subjective and varies individually.

Speak for yourself.

Edit: This thread and the RP responses are 100% stereotypical. I mean you guys are coming out of the woodwork to demonstrate that probably none of you even has an idea of what someone enthusiastically wanting to fuck you looks like. Add to that the very rapey feel, and you guys are "enthusiastically confirming" every bad stereotype about red pill. This thread is cancer for you guys, why do you keep punching yourself in the face with shit like this?

bunker_man · 2017-04-18T10:19:46+00:00

No its not? It's not a word game or a mystery. It just means don't treat someone technically saying yes who looks like they don't really want to as a yes.

throwaway0k7 · 2017-04-18T07:16:05+00:00

I had trouble reading emotional and physical cues too. Then I was diagnosed with fatal autism

throwaway0k7 · 2017-04-18T07:45:16+00:00

Honey I just read that last line. if you ain't fucking like a porn star then you ain't even know!

caesarfecit · 2017-04-19T07:57:06+00:00

Enthusiastic consent has one purpose and one purpose only: to deprive men of sexual initiative.

The obvious end result of enthusiastic consent is to make it more trouble than it's worth for men to sexually escalate. It doesn't matter what signs she's giving (even if she's stroking your dick, you can't assume she's DTF), it doesn't matter what common sense might say, it doesn't matter if she's going along with it, it doesn't even matter what she says. The only way to be safe is for her to take the initiative.

Ironically, everyone knows what this means if they're being honest, this means a lot less people of both genders will be getting laid, even if they both want it. Because most women, most of the time do not make the first move. That sounds awesome right!

It's such an obvious power play/con job that I'm amazed so many people fall for it.

As far as I'm concerned, a sexual encounter is not rape so long as a girl can get up and walk out the door at any time. If that's asking too much of women then perhaps the age of consent needs to be raised to 24 or something. Someone rebut that argument.

Eastuss · 2017-04-18T06:52:22+00:00

Not all people are excited 100% of the time for sex

Get hotter.

We are nervous. We are not the most confident with our bodies.

Get hotter.

You also can't tell if someone is truly excited or enthusiastic

You know the drill. Stop eating refined sugar and go to the gym once a week. You'll see what enthusiasm looks like.

Lyanina · 2017-04-18T07:26:14+00:00

Okay, so this consent issue is blown way out of proportion on American campuses apparently, but here goes...

You have to do that and somehow judge their own emotional cues and physical cues (which are near impossible to know in a representable way).

This just means make sure they're enthusiastically participating. What's the problem ? Sex is way better when that's the case. And it's not hard to see. I've never had sex with someone who wasn't an active and enthusiastic participant. They smile/look pleased, initiate a few things, touch you and make access easier for you... Instead of just laying there, or clamming up or whatever.

Not all people are excited 100% of the time for sex.

Sure, and yet my boyfriend always has my active and enthusiastic consent when we have sex, and I have his.

If your trying to define something in such a manner that it cannot be just asked, your trying to make it much harder to attain.

What would be the point of making it harder to attain? They're just trying to make people think a bit before acting.

Now it's a continuous state of enthusiastic consent.

Well of course. If someone changes their mind mid-way or says it hurts (in a bad, undesired way), you stop or take a break. How is this hard? My boyfriend immediately stops and listens to me if I feel even a slight pain. Having body issues or being shy doesn't mean you can't actively participate in sex.

Sex has ups and downs, sometimes you get less into it and want to change positions or spice it up again.

That doesn't mean you can't have continuous consent. What do you mean?

It's rarely if ever pornstar sex.

Thank fuck for that.

IFuckedZoeQuinn · 2017-04-18T12:39:21+00:00

Affirmative consent is an attempt by feminists to make false rape accusations easier to leverage against men. That's really all it is. Enthusiastic consent is literally impossible to prove short of both sex partners signing a consent form in front of a lawyer: even if you get a verbal "yes" for every sex act there is no evidence of it and you can still be charged with rape.

IMO this is part of a larger attempt by misandrist feminists (aka 99% of them) to make false rape accusations impossible to disprove. Heavily pushing "listen and believe," aka "always believe the woman," is also a part of this plan.

Another, even more worrying example is the insistence of most feminists that you should never question a rape victim's actions after the rape. For instance, in the Jian Ghomeshi rape trial, the defendant proved that his so-called "victims" had been writing love letters to him and returning to his house for more sex after the date of the alleged rape. The response from feminist cunts? "Those are normal behaviors of a rape victim and can't be criticized." They even protested and marched against the "injustice" of him being acquitted.

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/news/toronto/2016/03/17/ghomeshi-verdict-rally-to-support-survivors.html

You can see this same sort of thing happening in cases such as Emma Sulkowicz aka "Mattress Girl": despite overwhelming evidence that the accuser is lying, femicunts insist that her behaviors are completely normal and beyond criticism.

The endgame for feminists here is a legal environment in which false rape accusations are nearly impossible to disprove, and in which a false rape accuser will never be punished if their lies are exposed. This is pretty much the misandrist wet dream: a world in which all women have the power to weaponize the state against all men.

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prodigy2throw · 2017-04-18T12:11:19+00:00

It's meant to put the responsibility solely on the man. It's like if you're driving with a kid and get pulled over because the kid isn't wearing his seatbelt. You get the ticket.

Elite-hacks · 2017-04-18T17:22:01+00:00

A friend I know has been raped twice. Once her boyfriend passed out on a couch another dude picked her up, literally kidnapped her, took her to his bedroom and raped her with the boyfriend waiting outside.

A second time, she was out drinking at a bar, they invited some strangers home, they didnt feel like getting laid that night but had fun with the guys. At 3am one guy came into her room while she was sleeping and just mounted her.

Not sure how this applies to the discussion but wanted to add two examples.

[deleted] · 2017-04-18T08:51:49+00:00

Agree

badnews4u · 2017-04-18T11:46:15+00:00

how about who cares and gun for girls that arnt insane and somewhat normal. they dont pull shit like this. so date outside of your college for example if the girls there are insane

dicklord_airplane · 2017-04-18T17:16:49+00:00

these rules are designed for binge drinking culture in college. they are designed so that it's impossible to come up with an excuse for having sex with a blacked out or passed out drunk person. it's crude, heavy-handed legislation for a good purpose.

these rules were not intended to govern interactions between non-white-girl-wasted people, and i really wish that was mentioned prominently when these rules are taught. unfortunately, people are going to take the written word of law literally and universally in order to protect themselves.

these guidelines should be taught with more nuance and real-world advice for successful sexual and romantic relationships, especially for young men. it's a little unrealistic to teach a bunch of 18 year old boys these affirmative consent laws and expect them to understand that those laws really don't apply 100% of the time, especially when you understand that these young men's entire lives are riding on their understanding of the rules. remember, these guys are being threatened with expulsion and a permanent scarlet letter of "rapist", and that's terrifying. a lot of young men are getting the message that it's illegal to kiss a girl without asking her first because that's what the law literally says.

it doesn't help to say that young men should JUST KNOW all of this and that they are losers if they were never taught. lots of 18 year old boys have little or no sexual experience, and hearing these rules strikes fear and insecurity into a lot of inexperienced young men, and saying "lol stop being autistic and git gud at sex, troglodyte" doesn't solve anything.

[deleted] · 2017-04-18T18:26:03+00:00

All the pushback against sexual strategy, and this enthusiastic insistence on the consent point is to protect women from sleeping with non Chads. It goes against their prime directive but it is known to happen under circumstances and they despise themselves for allowing access to those they have inborn disgust for.

They shudder at the thought that someone who wasn't born a Chad managing to convince her into sex, hence the shunning of sexual strategy. It is a cardinal sin they carry with them forever when a beta gets some without paying in one form or another, so they insist on enthusiasm.

thisno · 2017-04-18T23:20:34+00:00

The only thing worse then laws with harsh punishment are laws that cannot be followed. That is to say no matter how unjust a law is if you follow it you will not get in trouble. But a law that you cannot follow because it is too broad is more harsh. That is enthusiastic consent. A rule with a broad meaning that is only applied to men and has a harsh punishment. It lets girls move the goal post. There is no set definition of enthusiastic consent. Every girl has a different definition. This is a smoke screen alphas will not follow this rule and women will reward them. But if a beta breaks the rule he is in trouble. It is all about what each individual women wants. This is feminism letting women be able to move the goal post when ever they want.

Wallstreet3 · 2017-04-18T07:04:39+00:00

The only way a man or woman will get enthusiastic consent is if they are perfect. No known mental health issues, tight and fit body, great hygiene, and more...

Title	CMV: The idea of "enthusiastic consent" is unrealistic and is intended to make it very hard to actually get consent
Author	soccerstar77
Upvotes	34
Comments	135
Date	April 18, 2017 5:47 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6611mo/cmv_the_idea_of_enthusiastic_consent_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-idea-of-enthusiastic-consent-is.268796 https://theredarchive.com/post/268796

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