CMV: The red pill is right about lookism in society, but this is a reality we should not encourage.

lbspredh · 2016-07-05T19:42:38+00:00

I can't endorse women saying the things you claim in the comments section. I think saying people should kill themselves for being unattractive is sociopathic and cruel. The following is not an attempt to excuse those comments, only an opportunity to consider other perspectives.

Men and women face different challenges when it comes to finding somebody they deem attractive. The vast majority of men who hit on me are substantially less attractive than the men I dated and eventually married. This gets frustrating. It's a similar to having your mailbox spammed with advertisements for things you'd never buy, except that deflecting can take more time than clicking "delete" and in some cases there is an implicit physical threat. I am careful not to overstate this threat, however. I think the hollaback campaign conflates all attention from men as sexual harassment, and this irresponsible.

Men overestimate their own attractiveness. This has played out in a number of studies. Women also feel obligated to obfuscate how important physical attractiveness is to them. When they envision their ideal partner they think of the chemistry and dynamics with this person before his appearance. They can't however, superimpose these desirable qualities onto a physically undesirable man. Men are also bombarded with a hyper reality in which beautiful women are standard and attainable, if not immediately sexual available. This contributes to the situation these women are complaining about, all them men on here who claim they have to date down looks-wise, and the incels who claim they cannot attract any women at all.

I have to admit that sometimes I feel jealous of men because most appear to have a default, possibly biologically determined, overestimation of their attractiveness, competence, and intelligence, whereas I have struggled with body image and self-esteem my entire life.

Men don't have difficulty becoming aroused because they feel bloated, for example. When I have had to interview or manage men I have found they drastically oversell themselves, and have a hard time recognizing when they have made mistakes.

I do mention balding and hair thinning on here more than I mean. I would never leave my husband because of hair loss. However, objectively men are less attractive to most women by virtue of losing their hair, and it is a natural feature of aging. The hair thing is more to combat the misguided concept that men become increasingly attractive with age, and men don't hit a wall. This is obviously not true.

despisedlove2 · 2016-07-06T01:21:03+00:00

Utter nonsense.

People have a right to their preferences.
Your "logic" appears to be that it is alright for women to practice bigotry as long as they don't say that they are bigoted.

Do you know what you are supporting? Hamstering and friend zoning.

I think it is a good thing that women in that article felt open enough to be honest.

No matter how ugly the truth, honesty is always the best policy. The world doesn't need even more female lies.

TRP would likely not need to exist if men were more aware of the true nature of women.

cxj · 2016-07-05T19:33:10+00:00

What you are referring to has nothing to do with physical attractiveness, it has to do with female entitlement. A girl can still go for hot sexy studs and be pleasant and nice to guys she isn't turned on by.

To be honest, the problem you are highlighting has to do with society merging the idea of rape and unwanted attention closer and closer.

sublimemongrel · 2016-07-05T20:05:01+00:00

No one is going to CYV because what you're describing is god awful behavior none of us (or at least most of us) would agree with. Also do you have a link for the article?

GridReXX · 2016-07-05T19:44:49+00:00

Lookism is a reality which will continue to exist whether it is encouraged or not.

Women want hot men. They spend their youth fucking hot men. When they settle for men who are decidedly less attractive than the men they used to date/fuck, they make everyone miserable: Themselves, their husbands and their children. The woman has two choices: continue in her misery, or divorce. This is because way down deep, she feels the way the woman in the article does: Don't approach me, you're beneath me, you're unattractive, you're disgusting. Know your place and don't ask for sex and if you do, you'll be accused of criminal conduct.

This is the prime reason our society is where it is now - women who spend their youths dating and fucking hot men who will never commit to them, then settling for lesser men who infuriate and frustrate them.

[deleted] · 2016-07-05T20:00:16+00:00

You shouldn't base your self esteem on twitter/tumblr collages and bullshit clickbait media.

mrcs84usn · 2016-07-05T20:17:52+00:00

Who is encouraging it in the first place? As far as TRP is concerned, it's been accepted that life isn't fair and many people don't get to win the genetic lottery. Therefore, you do what you can to improve your looks, and then work on other factors that you have more control over (game/hobbies/social skills).

Same goes for men not judging women in a similar manner

Except that probably the most common criticism women receive from men is being fat, which they DO have control over.

gopher_glitz · 2016-07-06T02:50:04+00:00

If all the unattractive men left to anothet planet or dimension people here would be screwed. Who is going to support their lifestyle. Imagin these types of women farming, ranching or construction etc.

[deleted] · 2016-07-05T19:20:23+00:00

I think it's wrong to discriminate and hate people based on these factors.

Sure, of course. You don't even need to bring morality into this - it's just wrong on a practical level, too. Someone's height, lack of hair etc. - it doesn't say much, if anything, about them. Now, we're attracted to what we're attracted to but this doesn't really have anything to do with that.

Come at it from a different perspective and the women posting comments like that deserve pity (and something tells me you didn't find this article in the LRB). Is it possible that some of them feel a deep and abiding hatred of all short, bald men? Sure. But it's much more likely that they're suffering extreme self-esteem issues themselves, probably rooted in past pain, childhood trauma etc. Who would want to be them? Who would want to be with one of them? And don't read this as excuse-making, it isn't. They're assholes. Assholes exist. We're never going to be able to get rid of them. But we're not obliged to hang out with them. We can decide whether or not we let them into our heads.

In short, who cares if some awful head-cases on the internet hate short dudes or bald dudes? You don't have to. If assholery bothers you you can simply endeavour not to join their ranks. You can't control others, only yourself.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2016-07-05T19:26:31+00:00

Link the article

[deleted] · 2016-07-05T20:56:24+00:00

OP: I think it's shitty that people have aesthetic preferences and it would be swell if we could all love everything equally.

Good luck with that.

To elaborate a tad, I don't really see much overt discrimination against ugly people in our culture. Sure, no one wants to fuck or date them particularly, but I'm not seeing calls for their deaths like you're saying. Obviously, that's fucked.

Will people continue to use aesthetic preferences as a factor for determining their relationships? Of course.

cxj · 2016-07-06T00:13:27+00:00

This is so redpill I'd wager it was written by a man from trp or the manosphere.

SetConsumes · 2016-07-05T19:32:25+00:00

Women say what they feel and that often includes brutal heartless statements. I'd put forth the average woman knows hate far better than the average man.

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Interversity · 2016-07-05T19:31:14+00:00

Can you link this article?

lbspredh · 2016-07-05T21:10:07+00:00

I don't get why people care what some cunt on the internet says about them, she's entitled to that shitty opinion

Personally my shitty opinion on this is that I have every right to act "creepy" and if people are uncomfortable by my interacting with them that's not really my problem, and they are perfectly welcome to leave

czerdec · 2016-07-05T22:02:08+00:00

Are you worried the TRP will use its tremendous influence and goodwill in the mass media to deepen the problem of lookism?

Are you trying to appeal to the moral side of TRP in getting them to stop encouraging lookism?

[deleted] · 2016-07-06T00:25:17+00:00

I agree a lot with this.

I'm shallow myself, and I hate that. But no one should ever be mean to someone else for being unattractive, and that should not be accepted.

Hawanja · 2016-07-06T06:22:58+00:00

Sorry, what article was this? Can you give me the link?

Edit: Nevermind, found it. You realize that article is bullshit, right?

tallwheel · 2016-07-06T07:20:24+00:00

TRP is not about changing society. It is about accepting it as it is and maximizing your chances within it. If people judge people based on their looks, then TRP's response is "be better looking."

Anandya · 2016-07-06T08:26:53+00:00

Incidentally... bald guy here... I think there is a difference between someone who is bald and someone who is balding. Someone whose response to hair loss is "let's shave/trim" probably knows his hair is falling but doesn't let that stop him. Someone who is balding seems to be more insecure with the hair loss and is desperately trying to hold on rather than change their look.

I have never had a woman say no to me because I have no hair. I am not tall (5ft 10). Honestly? When women talk about bald men they are talking about the guy whose hair is thinning out but who won't change the hairstyle they had in their 20s. I suppose my advantage was losing hair at a younger age (I was 18 to 20). Going bald was possibly the best thing I did. Like "I mean, I would like the choice of hairstyles and I did have nice hair until I turned 20... but shaving my head made things so much better".

It shows that you have taken the time to groom. Also? A lot of women think it looks much much much more manly and aggressive which is fun!

Never actually seen any women in real life say "I should give up on dating due to a lack of hair".

TrialsAndTribbles · 2016-07-06T14:11:07+00:00

When society enforces political correctness like that it leads to a boiling undercurrent of people like this. However, I just read women today are as heavy as men in the year 1960, so that goes both ways gals. I am disgusted by fat people and I think it's a normal and healthy revulsion, but I would never denigrate a person for being fat in front of them. The internet lowers this inhibition because it's impersonal.

Reed_4983 · 2016-07-06T16:34:10+00:00

You should know that the internet is full of trolling and other experiments of people who know they can say all kinds of crazy and offensive stuff and gleefully wait for people's reactions without having to fear any repercussions. That is a consequence of beuing able to appear anonymous on the web, I've done it myself from time to time. The case you mentioned, short or bald men being called subhuman or disgusting, is one such example of luring people into getting mad. It doesn't mean that the people writing it actually mean it, nor does it mean the majority of people mean it. I'm sure most women would harshly disagree with that statement, as of course many women have fathers, brothers, friends, partners and sons whom they love.

AmericanHistoryAFBB · 2016-07-07T18:56:20+00:00

Women can be so cruel to non-conventionally attractive people. Thank God I was blessed with decent looks.

DietCokeImOnMyKnees · 2016-07-08T04:32:40+00:00

So you found an extreme opinion on the internet which you haven't even linked to, and now you think its some huge problem.
Yes many women are not interested in short men. But What percentage would seriously advocate discriminatory laws against them? My guess is that if you did a nationally representative poll, the answer would round down to zero.

FindingInspiration · 2016-07-05T23:04:06+00:00

So, I'm posting this because I read an article a woman wrote saying that short or bald men were disgusting, should know their place, and never talk to women because they would deserve sexual assault charges and legal repercussions for having the gall to insult her time.

Until you link the actual article, I'm calling this summation a huge steaming pile of dogshit. Up your game.

Our society encourages acceptance of people of all different races, sexes, religions, and sexual orientations. These are factors that are genetic and cultural, largely out of the control of the individual. However, the line appears to have artificially been drawn when it comes to height, balding...attractiveness factors largely out of the control of the individual.

Your entire post is built upon a steaming pile of dogshit. Do better.

Title	CMV: The red pill is right about lookism in society, but this is a reality we should not encourage.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	108
Date	July 5, 2016 7:06 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4reb49/cmv_the_red_pill_is_right_about_lookism_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-red-pill-is-right-about-lookism-in-society.274150 https://theredarchive.com/post/274150

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