Q4RedPillers: In your time on PPD and/or other more "blue" sites have you learned anything of substance or value from BluePillers, "mainstreamers" or other critics of TRP? Have any of their arguments changed your view or gave you a new perspective on TRP?

ProtoPill · 2016-02-20T20:56:44+00:00

I came to PPD as a moderate RPer, and since then my experience with Bluepillers has 1) reinforced my moderate RP positions, while 2) at the same identified for me the more radical components of TRP that I immediately disregard.

Interversity · 2016-02-20T21:02:49+00:00

The problem is that some BPers attack individual statements or attitudes, which is the right way to go about it, and others paint anyone who reads anything on TRP and doesn't vomit as a misogynist rapist in training.

I have learned a few things from the sane BPers. Mostly relating to the toxicity of TRP and how it can lead to prevention of real, deep emotional connection. Why AWALT can be used in a toxic way, or a nontoxic way. 'Women are the Most Responsible Teenager in the House' was actually debunked by a BP (or exredpill, I don't recall) member and redpillschool agreed, quietly, that the premise of the article was not factually correct.

As I think about it, I'm seeing TRP as teaching clueless men about the reality of the social world, and the sane BPers are teaching clueless TRPers about the same tactics being used on them by TRP (groupthink, encouragement of anger, lack of reading things fully and just taking the OPs word for it/circlejerking, etc.), and the denialist BPers are denying that TRP can help clueless men.

The vast majority of high quality pill-analysis content is from purple pillers, neithers, and 'mostly reds', IMO.

alreadyredschool · 2016-02-20T21:50:07+00:00

I don't think I have. Most times I don't see people actually debating on here about things. They don't really read what the other person is trying to say or they cherry pick words from your reply to create their own narrative of what they just read. I don't think I've seen a bluepiller actually have any real reason as to why I shouldn't be red pill or as to why the way I think and behave is actually bad. I've found that I just post a reply about something with an honest answer about how I see things and get snarky remarks that are tangential at best or completely taken out of context at worst. No one here is trying to actually understand the other side or the line, it is just "YOURE SO FUCKING WRONG DUMBASS!" and really I find it harder and harder to participate here.

statsfodder · 2016-02-20T23:28:40+00:00

TBP is a "satire" sub of no substance that will nitpick at others beliefs and engage in sanctioned cyber bullying under the flag of feminism much like SRS and other femmepire branded subs.

There is nothing of value to be gained from TBP except how to paint yourself a victim in every discussion and learning how to spell misogyny, toxic masculinity etc.

give_me_evidence · 2016-02-20T21:43:34+00:00

This post made me doubt the factual accuracy of the worldview I was starting to get from TRP. Other than that, not really. A lot of the people who come here from TBP just build strawmen to tear down.

[deleted] · 2016-02-21T02:02:48+00:00

I moved from blue to red so... no. Any useful blue views I held, I still keep. I've just also found some value in RP's description of the SMP.

[deleted] · 2016-02-20T21:28:31+00:00

No. Blue pillers don't do the reading. They just try and beat your face in with insults and shit. They also tend to think we've never heard of feminism or equality and that the mere mention of equality will ring so unquestionably true to us that we'll drop everything and flock to it.

despisedlove2 · 2016-02-20T21:34:04+00:00

I am not RP, but you don't seem to get that a vast majority of RP are former BPs.

I am close to purple pill, but I spent my entire youth as a BP. Pedestalizing women, buying into the whole romantic love crap, putting myself last, etc. Makes me want to puke when I remember the lost years.

So, your likely answer is no. I already know the modern feminist driven BS the BPs like to feed people. I was one.

OlBastard · 2016-02-20T21:31:23+00:00

On one hand, it's quite cool how the opposition's inability to argue and their need to constantly resort to unsubstantiated feelings-based arguments affirms my own position.

Additionally, it has made me magnitudes more vocal about my beliefs in everyday life. I see bloops as a sickness that I prefer wiped out.(not in the genocide sense, chill)

On the other, the quality comments that make me think are few and far between.

[deleted] · 2016-02-20T23:15:58+00:00

Yes, I went from people to far far red just because blue pill pisses me off..

Maybe it's just where I live, but women I meet in real life seem much more grounded in reality then women on reddit

alreadyredschool · 2016-02-20T21:52:31+00:00

Yes, at the beginning I thought every woman was the same person. Now I know that this is not true, I mean just compare Hillary Clinton and Paris Hilton, clearly two different persons, I still don't know how I ever could believe that.

Jokes aside, BP targets the low hanging fruit AWALT way to often, swing and miss all the time. I actually came here to say one thing. I just wanted to voice my criticism about slut shaming on TRP - not in the sense of moral policing but much rather that a non judgmental attitude is great for your game/charm and sexual strategy. While doing that I realized what a toxic community BP is and stayed for the great discussions which rarely pop up.

What I really find weird is how RP can be a manipulation strategy and not differentiate between people, as if that would work.

Or how only broken/insecure women find hot, sexy, manly, men attractive.

Or why it would be wrong for RP to categorize all these broken/insecure/slutty women when those are the only ones they attract.

Or why Bpers still are too solipsistic and always assume RP wants a LTR and use the same short term tactics there...

Or why they still believe that what some philosophers said is considered science or a 100% accurate description of biology/neurology/psychology.

I mean I actually understand it, what I don't understand is how someone could believe that.

IMO the main problem with red vs blue is that the only reds that come on here are the ones that love debating, while blue sends everyone into the race. It's still a great sub to discuss red ideas.

insults, strawmans, and round-about circlejerking? has it actually pushed you further into TRP?

Most of the time. It's funny, they (especially trolls) create twerps.

mrcs84usn · 2016-02-21T00:05:16+00:00

I think the biggest take away I get from PPD is that when you actually get off the internet and go outside, it's really not as gloom and doom as TRP makes it out to be.

user5577 · 2016-02-21T02:49:48+00:00

I learnt that Red Pill is full of a lot of shit. I still agree and follow it but yea most of red pill is horny 20 year old guys who don't know shit about women.

I agree with sidebar, disagree with most of the populace.

you_done_messed_up · 2016-02-21T10:59:20+00:00

Q4RedPillers: In your time on PPD and/or other more "blue" sites have you learned anything of substance or value from BluePillers, "mainstreamers" or other critics of TRP?

Not really, but I'm keeping myself open to the possibility (it's only been a few months).

Caveat: I don't consider myself the core TRP audience, the stuff on /r/marriedredpill is much more mature and level headed to me.

I learn a lot from /r/divorce and /r/deadbedrooms though. Highly recommend them to anyone interested in how long term relationships work in the real world.

Interversity · 2016-02-20T21:18:15+00:00

I stopped being RP in part because of PPD. Though for others, I'm sure it just makes them more extreme in their views. It depends on your personality.

[deleted] · 2016-02-20T23:29:18+00:00

No.

If anything, it helped me further divide people into two categories of "rationals" and "socials".

darkmoon09 · 2016-02-20T22:49:36+00:00

Many women sincerely feel threatened by classical masculinity, and are attracted to it anyway. The cultural dysfunction that has produced the need for TRP negatively affects the same people who would exacerbate and perpetuate that dysfunction. I guess we could call it "sexual dissonance", because it's cognitive dissonance impacting sexuality.

That is honestly surprising, but it shows through and through among women who criticize TRP.

It's not all a bunch of noise. Not in the least. Sexual dissonance notwithstanding, blue pill is needed as a reality check and counterbalance to TRP.

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Equilibriun · 2016-02-21T04:18:00+00:00

No. I will never plug back in. Dying is a better option

[deleted] · 2016-02-21T09:29:08+00:00

Nothing specifically from TBP. The closest philosophy I can think of that reflects our culture is Stoicism. Stoicism teaches that virtue is the sole good which is the complete opposite of TRP.

I actually think it's very beneficial to understand both perspectives. TRP is nothing more than a philosophy of power. It's modern day Machiavelli. It's practical and gets at the base instincts that drive people.

Stoicism, Christianity, and other philosophies go beyond power and teach meaning. The advice they give is what TRP would consider "beta." Still, I don't think people can escape it. Doing good is irreplaceable.

[deleted] · 2016-02-21T09:49:29+00:00

Well, I was always more of an antifeminist than a red piller anyway :) I know men and women are different, and I know modern feminism isn't compatible with my moral principles. Everything else is details. PPD is pretty good at figuring out those details.

Sepean · 2016-02-21T12:56:02+00:00

It has made me realize how just how far bluepillers will go to protect and promote their ideology; the amount of ignorance and vitriol they're willing to throw around was surprising.

I think I'd be more open to sharing red pill thoughts with other people otherwise.

It's made me realize it is a bit like living in Iran - best not to "insult" the prophet.

darkmoon09 · 2016-02-21T16:34:29+00:00

I'd just like to say that if a red pill hasn't learned anything at all from a blue pill in his/her time here he should question his motives for participating in this sub.

betterdeadthanbeta · 2016-02-22T09:09:37+00:00

Hard as it is to believe, there was a time when once even I was a blue piller. I had to read all the same books, participate in the same "cultural appreciation" events, listen to the same PC leftist indoctrination in school as the rest of you, after all. My parents were leftists, and so were all my friends and their parents.

Of course, some small part of me noticed that despite all the happy choruses of how equal everyone is, reality didnt seem to line up with the narrative. Blacks were aggressive and violent. Women were invariably slightly dumber, and a lot shallower than all the males around me. Whites, asians and Indians were almost all hard workers and studious, while the same was rarely true for other ethnicities.

Even though I noticed this, I found ways to excuse it, and bought into liberal lies about "oppression" and "privilege" causing all these differences (which makes no sense, given that, if anything, it always minorities getting special consideration and treatment... and what the fuck kind of privilege do Asians/Indians have to explain their success?)

I never got any exposure to right wing thinking, other than the few Republican adults I encountered who spoke in platitudes like "I love America" and "its important to preserve the family, and religion," which was just more garbage. It wasn't until online discourse became a big thing that I was able to get exposed to the ideas and theories too incendiary and dangerous to be allowed anywhere near the mainstream. And after some minor cognitive dissonance, I began to realize their inherent truth.

Women, and minorities achieve less because they are less.

So, to get back to your question, no, I don't tend to learn anything from BPers, because almost every argument that comes from a feminist or liberal is one I myself have argued in the past, and likely better than 99% of the blues at this sub have. I simply reached a point where I grew tired of having to rationalize. If you argue the leftist position for a long time, and have even a shred of integrity or honesty left in you, that part will be screaming for release. You just get tired of pretending like the world just magically happens to be exactly the way an equality-minded person would need it to be in order for their beliefs to be justified. Treating every sociological paper that comes out as if the result wasn't ordained from the start, "my god! More proof that racism and sexism are wrong! What a ~~convenient~~ stunning revelation! Who would've expected for a result like this to come out of far left leaning university! And surely, if we received opposite proofs, we would accept those too, right??? We wouldn't bend over backwards looking for convoluted explanations for why our world views aren't threatened, am I right??? Because we're all about the science here."

throwawaycomedian95 · 2016-02-21T20:57:46+00:00

Feminism isn't THAT bad. It is still disgusting when it comes to men's issues but is ultimately a force for good in society.

[deleted] · 2016-02-20T21:36:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

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