Revisiting financial abortion -- Survey finds 24% of women would have a baby without their partner's consent

apis_cerana · 2014-08-22T20:16:42+00:00

I'm actually a feminist who supports financial abortions given there is a surefire way to ensure that everything is done in as fair a manner as possible to both the mother and biological father, and appropriate safety nets in place for the child. Which might be rather difficult.

From an ethical perspective, I find it is not right that the financial future of some men can be jeopardized because the condom split during a one-night-stand.

hyperrreal · 2014-08-22T18:03:39+00:00

There may be an ethical argument for this, but it will never happen. The state's interest is in making sure children are provided for.

[deleted] · 2014-08-22T21:45:11+00:00

Seems ironically selfish to insist on being a single parent. The irony being that being a parent means you can't be a selfish person because you'll be giving so much of yourself to your child.

That being said you can't want to want to be a parent. You have to want to be a parent. A lot of men aren't at that level, so women interested in parenthood should really ask. This is very similar to the "do you love me?" question. "I wish I loved you" is definitely not the same as "I do love you." Words like "maybe" and "I don't know" don't equal yes, buyer beware.

nicethingyoucanthave · 2014-08-22T20:52:11+00:00

I might have to start another thread for this, but here are a couple of red-pill facts for my blue-pill friends to digest:

abortion is not about bodily autonomy.

It's easy to prove this: imagine a scenario where it's possible to abort the pregnancy without terminating the fetus. The procedure is exactly the same from the woman's perspective (there's no additional risk, for example) but the fetus is placed into an artificial womb and brought to term.

At that time, the government places the child in an orphanage and sues the mother for 18 years of child support - sending her to jail if she cannot pay.

Women would be fucking rioting in the streets if a law like that were passed. Even though they keep their bodily autonomy they would have lost the right to opt-out of parenthood.

Nobody really cares what you do with your body - not even pro-lifers care. Abortion is about opting out of parenthood. Abortion allows a woman to keep her life on track if it turns out that having a child at that moment would be a hardship. Abortion is, on balance, a good thing. Countless more women are able to finish school or advance their career because they have the right to opt-out.

It's good that women have this right. Men should have a similar right.

child support is not about the child.

It's easy to prove this: imagine that child support was not paid directly to the mother's bank account, but instead to an account in the child's name. Imagine that both parents are required to pay into this account according to a formula that takes into consideration percent of custody and income. So if custody is 50/50 but the father makes twice as much, then he would be required to pay twice as much into this account, but the mother would have to pay some as well.

Each parent has a separate credit card that debits this account. When you buy new shoes for Jr. or school supplies, you just hand the cashier the separate credit card. At a grocery store, there are already government programs in place that are similar. WIC is a good example. The store knows that alcohol (just to pick an example) can't be paid for by WIC, so that expense is separated on the receipt. A mother would go grocery shopping as they do now. The only difference would be to hand the cashier two cards.

Any approved expenses would also be paid from this account. For example, if the court decides that 50% of the mother's rent, or car payment, or whatever may be paid from the account, then she would be allowed to withdraw that amount.

If the account is running low, all receipts would be available for the court to review. If the mother legitimately needs more money, it would be easy to prove. Funds in the account on the child's 18th birthday become his property.

This system isn't perfect, but it isn't difficult. It doesn't change the father's obligation to pay. If you really believe "child support is for the child" this system is actually better because it eliminates some of the profiteering that we all know happens with exorbitant child support payments.

And yet, women would be marching on washington if something like this were seriously considered.

[deleted] · 2014-08-22T20:45:54+00:00

This would be unethical and would result in children not receiving adequate care. More pressure should be put on the scientific community to make male birth control.

Those_Who_Remain · 2014-08-22T17:46:57+00:00

Doesn't TRP like to discard the results of surveys because they are unreliable? Also, what women say and what women do is different according to TRP, so maybe that also applies this time?

I personally would like to see an actual source to the survey used and the results. A random survey from a Woman's Magazine may not be the most credible source (just like Cosmo isn't either).

GridReXX · 2014-08-22T18:12:37+00:00

I wish these gender studies conducted these surveys on both genders.

[deleted] · 2014-08-22T19:18:29+00:00

[permanently deleted]

workerbeebuzz · 2014-08-23T09:04:54+00:00

Firstly; this is a "that's life" artice, and as such, one of the most rubbish sources of journalism this side of "Athena Starwoman's astrological predictions. If you take anything in this rag as truth, then you're possibly too dumb to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Secondly, do men actually get chased for child support payments in the USA? In Australia and England, men can just not pay and there's nothing that can be done to recoup that money. Too bad for the kids, eh?

I'm pro choice, and if a man can establish that he was forced into fatherhood against his will, then I'm all for financial abortion too. Not so much sympathy for men who desert their families for a 19yo, leaving their wife and kids in the lurch though.

chazzALB · 2014-08-25T15:08:05+00:00

In the US men can get thrown in jail for not paying . Which means they aren't earning any income to pay the bill that racks up during incarceration.

Other men get their salaries docked. Meaning a chunk of their paycheck is forwarded to the state government for delivery to the child's guardian.

GridReXX · 2014-08-22T22:47:13+00:00

I don't mind financial abortion.

I'm also pro choice.

But I can't say I will personally abort. Abortion to me feels like something you do when you're a 16 year old with no means. I'm 25 with a good career path and Ivy League degree. I can't shake the feeling of it being a grave choice at this point in my life.

That said many women feel like me. And pregnancy or abortion is no flippant matter.

I think what would happen is women who don't want to be screwed over will only be intimate with men they truly trust.

Which is fine with me.

However it doesn't seen like men are doing that even now. What happened to accountability? Don't want the risk of a child. Be vigilant and cautious.

Unicornrows · 2014-08-22T22:33:39+00:00

I presume the BBC website is reputable, but this article is from 2001 and cites a survey from a magazine called That's Life!. Anyone have the source, or the full survey results?

Reus958 · 2014-08-22T21:23:13+00:00

Don't want kids? Don't have sex. "Financial abortion" creates an imbalance that enables irresponsible men to just leave instead of facing the consequences of their actions.

[deleted] · 2014-08-22T22:03:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

GridReXX · 2014-08-22T20:54:10+00:00

If you get stuck paying child support, it's your fault, you chose to sleep with that woman.

Just like it's the mother's fault if the father of her child is a deadbeat who abandons them, because she chose to sleep with him

Title	Revisiting financial abortion -- Survey finds 24% of women would have a baby without their partner's consent
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	12
Comments	184
Date	August 22, 2014 5:35 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2eampm/revisiting_financial_abortion_survey_finds_24_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/revisiting-financial-abortion-survey-finds-24-of.285032 https://theredarchive.com/post/285032

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