How to handle ultimatum

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toilets777
February 20, 2020
85 upvotes
askTRP

GF of 4 years gave me ultimatum. Either we move in together this upcoming year or she’s done. How do I handle this?

For background, she’s a great girl and our relationship is pretty easy going. We split bills, she cooks all the time, gets along well with my family, etc. But there’s something about moving in and giving up a little more of my freedom that makes me want to run for the hills. I spend a lot of time on personal hobbies after work and worry she’d try to take away from that. How would you guys approach?


Post Information
Title How to handle ultimatum
Author toilets777
Upvotes 85
Comments 97
Date 20 February 2020 12:49 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/338623
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/f6slk0/how_to_handle_ultimatum/
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[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill246 points247 points  (17 children) | Copy

As it's been pointed out, she's trying to change the power dynamic.

You could be a kind and benevolent dictator and tell her, "Sure love, but if we move in together under threat how does that start us off on the right foot. How would you feel if I coerced you?"

You could be a machiavellian overlord, and simply tell her what she wants until she's outlived her usefulness.

Or you could be the Alpha provider and ask yourself, "Does she support my mission? How would adding her to my household do that?"

Approach what she's asking for from an emotional standpoint, is she asking you for more access? Was it a comfort test or a shit test? Or a shitty comfort test? When she delivered the ultimatum did she use terms like, "I want to move in or we're done" or "you need to let me move in or I'm out". "You" typically signify shit tests, "Me" terms are comfort tests. She may merely be looking for reassurance that her time she's devoting to you is well spent.

In the end, in an LTR you are the captain of the ship, and the crew does not get to set demands.

In your case, I would simply tell her, "Hey you are in charge of your own destiny and while I'd be sad to see you go, I'm not ready to move in together. I like you and see a future with you. I'm not saying 'no' not ever, but if you feel you're not on board with the direction we're going do what you feel you need to."

​

It's an advanced version of the "What are we?" question. Acknowledge her feelings, state your position, do not DEER to her, and let her know it is her choice either way.

[–]toilets777[S] 30 points31 points  (6 children) | Copy

Damn, this seemed to hit the nail on the head. As far as I can remember, the question/phrase has always included a “me”, which tells me comfort, but I’m not 100% sure.

What is DEER again?? Remember reading this in another post.

[–]TacticalTacktleneck34 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy

DEER

-Defend -Explain -Excuse -Rationalize

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy

What is DEER again?? Remember reading this in another post.

Defend, Excuse, Explain, Rationalize. It's the opposite of owning your actions.

Here's a post a while back from a former poster on shitty comfort tests. As you progress in the LTR game, it gets a bit more complex, and you need to navigate complex emotional situations.

[–]Protocol_Apollo3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Jackoftenhearts is a great poster.

An EC some time ago recommended reading everything (literally) that he wrote.

Some proper nuggets there.

[–]Endorsed ContributorUEMcGill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, he was well regarded on the MRP sub. His wisdom is missed.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That was me. Here's the archive.

[–]teddyallagash46 points47 points  (0 children) | Copy

And this is how you get that EC tag gentlemen. Good advice.

[–]O13eron18 points19 points  (3 children) | Copy

This is the first time I’ve noticed anyone explain comfort tests vs shit tests as “I/Me” vs “you”.

Is this accurate? Is this a known reference I missed/overlooked? It sounds exactly right. Just verifying.

It reminds me of transactional analysis. “I/me” is the child voice. “You” is the parent voice. Adult is very similar to frame now that I think about it. Hrm.

[–]RPNorvell[M] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes.

[–]Dimenzije900 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I dont remember seeing anything about how to pass comfort tests in the side bar. Did i miss it? I think im actually mistaking comfort from a shit test a lot of times so i end up beeing too aloof when maybe i should be reasuring her.

[–]RPNorvell[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

They're more aligned with managing a spouse/LTR, so they tend to stay over at MRP and not be recommended here as it's usually easier to next a girl than to give her comfort.

Like the 12 dread steps, you have to first decide if it's worth it to even start that journey instead of pushing the big red button.

[–]abomba241 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wow. Big props on this analysis

[–]legend5030 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Where did you learn this wisdom?

[–]punished-boss-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This

[–]RPNorvell[M] 68 points69 points  (2 children) | Copy

Your ex is right.

4 years is way too long to be sitting on a fencepost.

[–]RPOpenUp16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hmm gotta love this man

[–]GGrub811 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

4 years is absolutely nothing. Try 15.

[–]thrwy7547934 points35 points  (3 children) | Copy

GF of 4 years gave me ultimatum.

It was a good run.

[–]toilets777[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How’s you go about it? What was the ultimatum?

[–]LazerSpin8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

He means you had a good run with her and she likely won't take no for an answer, although with UEMcGill's advice you can probably squeeze some more miles out of your baby.

[–]RPOpenUp38 points39 points  (16 children) | Copy

Ultimatums are a declaration of powerlessness,

Read this: https://therationalmale.com/2012/05/07/ultimatum/

From the Rational Male

[–]xandrewsxano17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

I‘m your fan now for giving that link

[–]RPOpenUp13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Rational Male is fucking gold.

He covers so much about Red Pill

[–]boredathome198 points9 points  (13 children) | Copy

I don't get the difference. We advice guys to remove yourself from girls that don't give you what you want (i.e. Sex), so basically the same thing of "I get what I want or I'm out" ultimatums just without saying it out loud.

[–]mkovic12 points13 points  (8 children) | Copy

A lot of the time, even though the result is the same, what matters is the intention. There's a big difference between "I consider frequent sex in my romantic relationships a requirement for my own needs to be met" and "If you don't have sex with me I'm leaving you".

[–]boredathome195 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy

Isn't her giving him the choice of moving in together saying "I consider living together in a romantic relationship of 4 years a requirement for my own needs to be met"? If not why?

[–]mkovic1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

It pretty much comes down to framing. If she said it the way you phrased it, I don't think anyone can blame her for feeling that way and being willing to walk if her needs aren't being met. But, the OP framed her talking to him about this as "If you don't do X I'm dumping you", at least in my reading of the post, and that comes off as manipulative.

[–]boredathome191 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

But that's exactly what we do with girls. If they don't don't what we want they don't get our attention. We manipulate them in the same way without spelling it out.

[–]mkovic4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's a very surface level understanding of red pill teachings. Literally the only difference between someone who has internalized the red pill and the ones that are still figuring shit out is the difference between "This girl isn't giving me what I want, but I know what strings to pull to get her to cut the bullshit" and "This girl isn't giving me what I want, but I have so many options and I'm so okay with just not needing her attention/affection that I'm just gonna go off and do my own thing and if she cuts the bullshit great, if not great". Both scenarios result in you denying her your attention, but to call them the same is just wrong.

[–]LazerSpin0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Anyone can do that while claiming that they are "red pilled". The distinction that u/mkovic is trying to make is the difference between saying "do this or we're through" vs "I need this".

The outcome of not getting the ask in an ultimatum is automatically following through with the threat (lest the ultimatum giver gets seen as weak). The outcome of voicing your need is not necessarily leaving or breaking up. You might spend less time with the girl, demote her to a plate, or even re-evaluate your needs if need-be.

[–]mkovic0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd even argue that part of the distinction is that with the ultimatum, they're rarely going to follow through, especially on the more petty bullshit, which just goes to show that it's blatant manipulation and not for an important reason. I would not be surprised at all if OP told his gf to take a walk and she didn't follow through.

[–]LateralThinker13-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

"If you don't do X I'm dumping you", at least in my reading of the post, and that comes off as manipulative.

I am not sure I'm convinced. Sure, the wording OP used makes it sound like an ultimatum, but it could also be a boundary, in the sense of, "I give a guy maximum time to decide if we're good for LTR/progression, and you've played out your time. Time to decide to move on or next." Doing so openly isn't manipulative, it's pretty honest. If she was manipulative, she'd be bargaining with "Look at all I do for you!" or pursuing sunk cost fallacy or something.

I guess it just sounds like OP has a life course choice to make.

[–]mkovic-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh he absolutely could be mischaracterizing what she told him, but at the end of the day all we can really comment on is what he wrote

[–]RPOpenUp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is not manipulation. You are making a statement with the intention of influencing her. If you are doing it with that intention then yea you are manipulating. The thing is Red Pill teaches you to not use manipulation techniques against women, which is what PUA do. For example. She's behaving badly and you say "Ait I'm out" then this a power move, you do what YOU want to do. However saying shit like "If you don't change I'm out" you are trying to regain power by manipulating her actions, which comes from a place of no power.

[–]RPOpenUp0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What part do you not understand

[–]boredathome19-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

How is removing yourself from a situation where you don't get what you want a powerful alpha move, but a girl that wants you to move in with her is being powerless with an ultimatum of her leaving?

[–]Kidterrific8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because it's not demanded. If my needs aren't met, I go elsewhere to get them met. I don't threaten the person I'm with to start changing to meet my needs or I'm gone.

One situation tries to change someone else's behavior. The other situation only focuses on your behavior. Big difference.

[–]1DullIntroduction18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

Do you think begining something with an ultimatum is a good sign?

You're asking yourself how to handle it because you're afraid of losing your only pussy supply.

If you had 3 plates, you'd know the answer is "okay, goodbye then".

[–]toilets777[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Kinda where my head is at. Like “giving me an ultimatum over this?” I see that as moving in together is more important to you than the relationship itself

[–]1DullIntroduction10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Unless you're planning to have kids, there's no valid reason to move in together. She just wants to secure you.

[–]ghosts_of_me8 points9 points  (16 children) | Copy

idk how old you are but i think it depends what your long term goals are.

do you want to get married and have a family? and is she the right one? go for it.

No to both of the above? SHE is the one making it an "ultimatum" so you are being manipulated into doing what she wants. Time to break up because that is not fair and reasonable.

If you go that route, due to her "ultimatum" she needs to be fully aware that SHE is dumping YOU because you didnt want to live with her. You're the prize here and she's the loser. If it gets seen as a "Mutual break up" then you fell into her frame.

[–]toilets777[S] 9 points10 points  (15 children) | Copy

  1. I get somewhat where she’s coming from, girls are on a different timeline than us guys. I think she could be the right one to start a family with, etc. I worry it’s “right girl, wrong time” type of situation. A piece of me wants to go for it, another is like “ok, it’s this or you’re done with me? goodbye”. Big struggle at the moment, this is my first LTR and these things are tough business

[–]Senior Contributoradam-l5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing that starts with an extortion ends well.

Every specific woman is just a thin spread of jam over a thick piece of bread, the generic woman. Sure, some are just shitty. Others, much less so.

Enjoy your years and the increase in your SMV until you reach 40. Decide if you are going to marry then. (Don't).

[–]ghosts_of_me0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

I feel you man im in exactly the same spot just a little younger. I'm 24 and with my first actual girlfriend (1.5yrs). She is fucking great; nothing but green flags, very compatible families and I would let her have my children. But she has already tested me by bringing up the idea of living together one day and I hate it!

I'm JUST becoming an actualized man and could really do some damage out there spinning plates and working on my mission if i was single. I know you relate to the feeling of it being "too good, too soon".

Think outside the box with me here, is it possible to keep our freedom while keeping our girls, AFTER we fell into the relationship trap? Im thinking about trying to evolve it into an open relationship / polyamory type deal. Like you said though, it's tough business.

[–]toilets777[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

I’ve had similar thoughts. The more I’ve thought about it though “open relationships” are a total joke. One person is bound to slay more than the other and the individual getting less in the relationship is bound to get jealous.

My game with women has increased exponentially over the last 5 years. It’s a weird thing, cause the more your value/game goes up, the more attracted your girl will be to you due to indirect dread.

At 1.5 years, I’d tell you to push back on that in a joking manner. Like “let’s see how you continue to perform Over the next couple years”

[–]ghosts_of_me-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Youre right its impossible to keep it balanced if open.

What's your bigger problem right now: Wanting to fuck other girls again? Or wanting to avoid the massive time commitment that comes with a gf?

[–]toilets777[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Mixture of both. I’ve had a bit of the “grass is greener” mentality. I’ve been more or less asked out by women that I once thought were way out of my league. Crazy what getting in shape, being put together, and holding a normal conversation can do. I’m also worried about the time commitment. I like my space and fear this would encroach on that. What about you?

[–]ghosts_of_me0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All the same here. I feel lucky to have found a relationship stable enough to run into the problem of fearing lifelong commitment. I wish i knew why thats even a fear? It should be awesome.

The grass-is-greener mentality hits me hard too so I want to destroy the fence that divides it. Monogamy is an institution historically set in place by religion and we are both atheists who don't want to get married and dont want kids so what the fuck are we doing with the exclusivity?

Bringing this up with her in the wrong time and place jeopardizes the whole thing. But when will the time be right? It's a big risk. Maybe this is how most relationships that last till death really work on the inside; it's good, it's safe, its not perfect, but its enough? Is that who we want to be?

[–]LateralThinker13-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like my space and fear this would encroach on that.

I hear a lot of fear from you about what COULD happen. Do you have any evidence that it WOULD? How has she treated you so far? 4 years is a pretty good litmus test.

[–]theyearsstartcomin2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm JUST becoming an actualized man and could really do some damage out there spinning plates and working on my mission if i was single. I know you relate to the feeling of it being "too good, too soon".

A good first mate is worth a thousand thots

Im not telling you to settle, but just make sure to account for that in your calculations

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]theyearsstartcomin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

b-beta

Lol

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]theyearsstartcomin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes

[–]Thinkingard0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

bro you are nowhere near ready for any kind of commitment. You said it yourself, will she take away your personal time for hobbies? Of course she will, she will take every last damn minute and guilt you for pursuing your hobbies. when you are ready to have no free time, or very little alone time, then you are ready for a commitment. kids also = literally zero free time except when they are asleep.

[–]SteveSan820 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The "right one" doesnt exist. She likely has another guy lined up or else she wouldn't have gave an ultimatum.

[–]IXseed3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women HATE honesty... but we don't give a shit what women want over here. So be honest. Tell her you don't want her to move in. Don't give an explanation because that's not your job. And you give it to her cold. No emotion. Let her sit on it and she either comes back (and you punish her for pulling some shit like this. This is demotion worthy.) or she walks.

[–]Whitefarmer9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

Woman have expiry dates (fertility window)and it’s kinda hot when they are aware of it.

You sir have to shit or get off the shitter or at least give her something to think about it

[–]toilets777[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Haha! Been told that a few times from wiser men than myself. I’ve been prairie doggin for a while

[–]Whitefarmer5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Four years is pretty legit if it’s trouble free for the most part. She may take some time away from hobbies but she as also gave you 4 years of not having to chase and game girls ( waste of time)

It’s hard AF but you can live together and have your hobbies to. It’s up to you not her

[–]second-last-mohican-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

What have you got to lose, moving in together isn't the end of your life, I've lived with a few, moving in together under 1 year is kinda normal here.. if it doesn't work out..... next

[–]Zanford5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You split bills but don't live together? Eh?

Seems clear to me. Ultimatums are unacceptable, AND it sounds like you don't really want to move in together. You have to call her bluff, and if she walks, she walks.

[–]SirAttackHelicopter7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

4 years? She cooks for you all the time? She visits your family? Split bills? And you're surprised she is questioning your indecisiveness? Being passive like this ain't a good thing, bro.

[–]cglehosit4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Remember she has pressure coming from her family, her friends, the world. 4 years is quite a long time for a woman to commit with no assurance of long term care, and in her eyes, moving in is that assurance. You can still get your hobbies done.

[–]zHelios3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Moving in with her because she gave you an ultimatum is a very bad reason to move in together. I

[–]Iluvalmonds831 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I do t think the moving in is such a problem as much as OP fears he will lose his autonomy if he enmeshed his “home” with the stbex gf. But what OP doesn’t seem to see is that he is already enmeshed ‘-she cooks for him, they split bills, and have been committed to each other for 4 years.

Op should do what he wants, which is hold his ground /boundary of not sharing homes. Let her go so she can find someone on the same page, hopefully OP can as well. But He must also be aware that living together , especially in an LTR is reasonably expected to happen and he will likely run into issues again in another LTR.

[–]PaulBreddit2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dont go for that bullshit. Might as well hand over your balls with the keys to the place.

[–]fretty5550 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Give her one back. Say "I'm going to leave you if you give me ultimatums". Also I think women like it when you're focused on your own stuff I don't really see your problem

[–]Voodoo_toad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You be done..... And move on.

[–]breakdatass0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Does she want children? Is she running out of time? Don't waste her time.

[–]DatRiggz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

3 years with ex ltr and recieved the same ultimatum. Its move in, or she's walking, she's ready for decision time.

[–]Senior Endorseddr_warlock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Its one thing to hint at it, its another to coerce. Women dont get to make demands. 4 years is a long tome in woman years, wanting something more makes sense. But its the attitude and delivery of that desire that signals whats to come. It would you giving in as opposed to agreeing. She will become complacent, be disrespectful, try controlling you, try to make an oopsie baby, stop wanting sex and find other dick. Promise.

[–]Folknust0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She’s trying to gain power. Do not succumb. If you do, then you’d break frame.

[–]AceMav21-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

End things abruptly after fucking her the night before

[–]redxpeace0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Evil

[–]slappysq0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bye Felicia

[–][deleted]  (6 children) | Copy

[removed]

[–]GGrub81 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fuck off. If I want my LTR to be my GF without cohabitation for 40 years either she's on board or she can GTFO.

This is the askredpill sub, not to the "man up" sub.

[–]1Red_Pill_Brotherhood-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Comes off as tradcon but you have a point.

[–]theUnBannableHulk-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Don’t mean it to come off as a “git married git children” but it IS the reality.

We gotta plan for this shit. As the wahmen’s plan it from day one of the relationship.

And of course with the insane laws in marriage/divorce and alimony and child support I fully understand but still as Men we gotta be aware of reality and have a plan.

In today’s world I’d say

Marriage - Not Worth It

Kids - Worth It

Then it’s up to each Man to decide.

[–]1Red_Pill_Brotherhood-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good point. Many men will hit this crossroads and its important to know how you'll handle it. Dont want to be unprepared.

[–]LateralThinker130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And what's more, it's hard to find a good woman worth having kids with. Dating, sure, but kids? That's an 18-year commitment. OFC it's also an investment into the future... but many RP men don't look that far ahead... or don't care. Which is fine, different strokes.

But if she's been solid for 4 years, and wants to progress (and especially if he's dodged the question) I could see why she's eventually saying "look, I have an expiration date. Buy or move along". He has to decide if he's gonna buy. He still can keep power/frame, because it's still his decision - if he frames it that way. Or he can bail.

Don't know enough to judge more.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy

[removed]

[–]ElijahBurningWoods1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Some guys - like me - don't like to live together with a woman. Living together with a woman might sound comfortable, but thats the problem. Comfort is your enemy as it becomes boring. Only live together if you want kids. It's up to you.

[–]Gordon-G-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah having kids and a family may work,.. but most don’t

[–]Gordon-G0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Must warn you... I had many hobbies and my ex had virtual none. What happens eventually is you end up giving up yours “for the sake of the relationship “... you most definitely lose your independence. She becomes an empennage off of you. Never again... never going back to the plantation!!

[–]when_its_too_late0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Doesn't the rational male say, DO NOT moved in our cohabit with a woman you aren't married to?

[–]macheagle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How old are you both and are you guys working or still in school? Age is relevant.

[–]Domebeers-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

Marry her or don't

[–]Gordon-G0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

or don’t

[–]redxpeace1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just don't

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Didn't even read the post, just read the title.

Next.

You need abundance mentality asap.

[–]1Red_Pill_Brotherhood-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

You hold your ground and tell her "I'm not looking to live with anyone right now. If that's a problem for you, I understand." Be ready to accept any result and dont give in.

Edit: agree with Hulk and Norvell. You do need to make a decision on the future and quit pussying around. Dont let her strong arm you into anything though.

[–]shadowentityrising-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very simple amused mastery really, tell her she's not good enough at cooking, cleaning, washing your clothes and licking your balls yet.... She needs to level up another 10 levels before it even crosses your mind. Besides how are you supposed to fuck your side chick when she's living there... Unless she's game to join in. Say them words and keep putting it on the back burner until YOUR ready. Incoming shit tests....



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