696,979 posts

Reading comprehension, or the lack thereof...

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August 30, 2015

Somehow, with my latest sticky where I re-explained why we weren't using the nomenclature "self-improvement" for the subreddit, everybody went off half cocked and assumed that somehow that meant the discussion shouldn't include self improvement as a topic of discussion.

I have to assume that everybody commenting either has no reading comprehension or it is an organized influx of users from elsewhere rushing in to purposefully misinterpret what I said to clog up the works with nonsense.

So instead of sending individual bans, I'm posting a public comment right here:

If your direct response to me was something along the lines of "but I liked talking about self-improvement" then you have just received a one-day ban.

During this 24-hours, you now have the goal of self-improving, starting with your reading comprehension. I suggest reading the sidebar.

I'll make it easy for you, directly from my post:

Sure, self-improvement is one aspect of our discussion. But make no mistake, the sort of self-improvement we're doing here isn't the kind that satisfies our feminized culture. We aren't just working out our biceps and calling it a day. We're working out our minds, we're gorging on information that is labelled "hate" for lack of a better criticism against it.

To re-iterate:

There will be no change to /r/theredpill's focus of discussion.

That's right. It will stay exactly the way it's been since we started. A discussion on sexual strategy.

To review on concern trolling:

A person who posts in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be losing quality, changing, or appear offensive to others. They point out problems that don't really exist to create an illusion to others that the problems exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue.

And my favorite definition by /u/whisper:

Basically, someone who assumes you are sane, tries to understand your argument in the most compelling interpretation he can, and then tries to refute it, is a debater.

Someone who assumes you are insane, or tries to find weak interpretations of your arguments that will be easy to refute, or reifies metaphors, is a troll.

If you go off half cocked on these and display an inability to read or comprehend what is written, I will assume you are either an intentional troll, or a half-wit.

Post Information
Title Reading comprehension, or the lack thereof...
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 220
Comments 68
Date 30 August 2015 01:40 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/35965
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3iwskm/reading_comprehension_or_the_lack_thereof/
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the red pill

[–]Squeezymypenisy38 points39 points  (4 children) | Copy

I didn't notice the other sticky until now. I figured TRP was here to teach guys how to be men because many modern men and fathers lack balls in today's world. I assumed sexual strategy, tips, self-improvement type stuff, and fitness would all be included anyways. Thanks for keeping the language police out. Many subs fall when they get to big and the mods can't handle anything, but you guys have kept it on a straight course. Cheers.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

it is all those. From what I gathered from the threads, OP is talking about how some people are trying to make RP palatable, by selling it as a 'self help' thing...

and specifically cites the seduction sub as an example how that will turn a place to shit. then just reiterates the purpose of this place.

[–]MurderVonAssRape 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

Why should anyone care if it is palatable? It is what it is.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

that was the point being made, yes

[–]RN_TH3_TRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I kind of figured the same thing. If we direct more focus to /r/becomeaman this hopefully won't be as much of an issue anymore.

[–][deleted] 52 points53 points  (8 children) | Copy

The self improvement thing is a blue pill strawman. What they want is to make it out like we're struggling for acceptance but we're just an oh so misunderstood self improvement group. They try to give us that identity to rally behind because it sounds nice enough. Their method of branding us to have a constant barrage of "Oh, that's supposed to be self improvement?" It comes off like a standard mocking but it's supposed to be giving us a chance to prove that we're self improvers. You lose that debate by winning in a sense because by proving that you really are about self improvement, you castrate yourself.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of self improvement here but it's not our essence. Our essence is what you can derive the rest from knowing. You can learn theory and know you've gotta lift but nothing about good squatting form will teach you red pill theory. What's funny is that the narrative is that we lure boys in with self improvement and then sucker them into misogyny. BP hasn't read the sidebar. Turns out, it's all about 'misogyny' and self improvement is barely mentioned. In reality, we lure boys in with 'misogyny and then sucker them into lifting. Go figure. But honestly, who hasn't seen that one coming? When has anyone ever suckered in 18-22 year old men by promising them that they get to eat healthy and study?

[–]ModRedSovereign50 points51 points  (3 children) | Copy

It was the trojan horse than ended up making /r/seduction a female friendly shithole, completely undermining any of the useful actionable advice.

We are not going to be accepted by the mainstream, nor do we have any intention of it. The complete rejection of the feminine imperative is a feature of this sub, not a fault.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 30 points31 points  (2 children) | Copy

Exactly, which is why I reiterate it every couple months.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

A while back I asked the blues on PPD where they saw RP urging that we're actually a self improvement group. I got a dozen groups saying that it's too common to even link to and all sorts of other pathetic cop outs, no links though.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for your service!

[–]deargdragon10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I like the references to our ancient Greek philosophers. Lifting was just something they did regularly along with improving their minds every day. This forum is a return to those ancient open forums.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't know that the philosophers lifted. Got a link?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've always found, in a word, the best way to describe this is


[–]1Snivellious1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This seems like the specific case of the general "easy out" pattern. Criticize someone's behaviors, then offer them a branch to grab hold of that will make the criticism go away.

On a personal level, this usually means saying "your behavior is wrong, but I'll bet it's the fault of person X". Then your target gets to say "Oh my, that person X filled my head with all kinds of bad ideas, now I'll fix my behavior". They avoid disagreement or being wrong as long as they switch to the behavior you want and denounce person X.

On a group level, this usually means saying "your movement sounds scary/evil/not PC, but I'm sure you're really just pushing socially-acceptable topic Y." Y is usually a part of the movement, but not the part with the scary controversial ideas. As long as you're willing to censor not-Y, you get to come back into the fold of safe, joinable movements.

It's concern trolling, but a very specific type. You're promised social acceptability and absolution from being confronted on your past actions as long as you promise to cut out and renounce a certain set of views.

And yes, it's hilarious to me that TRP gets attacked for 'tricking' people into hating women when the usual pattern is "Oh, you hate women? Well, that's just how things are, so get over it, get in shape, and get a good job." TRP works to digest and soften the anger that people arrive with.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (3 children) | Copy

Wait a second, couldn't getting better at reading comprehension be categorized as self improvement? Don't reverse psychologize me, bro.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

What was that? I'm sorry, didn't catch it. Could you repeat it?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dave's not here, man.

[–]Soriq74 points75 points  (11 children) | Copy

Sad that this post is necessary. If you cant see the link between self improvement and sexual strategy as well as understand what a core message is, I'd say kill yourself, but a one day ban is more than reasonable.

You guys are doing great work with this sub. No way I could handle being a mod. Jesus fucking Christ

[–]McLarenX21 points22 points  (10 children) | Copy

This sub is honestly an armory in the war against oppressed men. Why they can't just leave us be and let us improve our lives is beyond reason.

[–]RocketManV4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

It is, and will always be, a power struggle.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy

i am neutral on this particular argument.

[–]McLarenX8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

The whole point of this sub is not being weak. Indecisiveness is weakness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

And arrogance is dumbness, which is also a weakness.

There are great benefits to being indecisive sometimes.

[–]1Snivellious5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

There's nothing wrong with declining to make a decision (say, because there isn't yet enough information).

Showing up in someone else's conversation to go "Hi, I have no opinion on this matter!" is asinine and pointless, though.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy

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[–]McLarenX-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I cut all those people out years ago. Never knew about TRP just did it on my own to embrace my alpha nature. Actually, I might be sigma because I can't tolerate having shitty betas around.

[–]McLarenX14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

So basically nimrods addicted to social media who are used to never actually fully reading anything (or holding their attention on something) did their usual BS, and failed to fully comprehend what was dictated to them.

Guys, when a mod or a serious contributor says something here, don't skim and act like you understand. Get off the video games and Facebook, and develop an attention span for yourself. Go for long walks to stimulate your brain (proven scientifically to help) and stop taking in so many fucking sugars and refined carbohydrates.

[–][deleted] 16 points16 points | Copy

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[–]look_good7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't see a need for change in TRP. TRP saved my life by showing me how empowering it can be to not placate to the demands/suggestions of tone police/concern trolls. Mods are doing fine, if you feel like something different needs to happen, fuck off, start your own movement.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Red pill is a philosophy, which is an interpretation of reality. What you do with that interpretation is up to you (action). For example you can subscribe fully to red pill and be a happy beta provider. It just so happens that most people who subscribe to TRP also want to take advantage of it by self-Improving.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Only thing I've never really liked about calling TRP "sexual strategy" is that it goes much deeper than that. TRP is a strategy for life. I'm much more successful than I've ever been in all aspects of my life thanks to TRP - sexual, financial, mental, physical, everything.

Sexual strategy is just a small part of the equation, but it's one that is directly enhanced by all of the other aspects. Running improves not only my physical success, but my sexual success. Becoming more intelligent, learning how seduction works, has directly improved not only just my sexual relationships but also business relationships. I think this linkage is why we have the "TRP is sexual strategy" motto, but I also think that this motto is an over simplification.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's a matter of terminology. I would argue anything you do is a form of sexual strategy. Survival, success, entertainment, and family, all of it sexual strategy. Even after your reproductive years, what you contribute to culture, society, or simply your own family is essentially part of the species strategy - if for no other reason but to give the new generations something to work towards.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why not just change the paragraph to "Sexual strategy through self improvement" and be done with it.

Because it's not, self improvement is just a little part of sexual strategy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Funnily enough, posted a review of Vox's SJW always lie, and this guy here is described as the neutral party, and it's not meant as a good thing.

Consider the femenist imperative as an irrational power grab, you have your boundries, and it's insatiable need for power. then the neutral party comes in as a 'middle ground' thinking you can split the difference. It doesn't actually do anything but give the crazy some ground, under the guise of making nice.

Crazy has enough ground.

[–]_redme4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm with you 100%.

The simple fact is people love self help and it's a killer market force, and TRP is marketed on Reddit as the anti-Christ forum. I reckon new comers hamster their negative perceptions of this forum with a self improvement based philosophy. Plus, it's fucking lazy. Suddenly their goals are women, power and status and they assume this is achievable with a new gym membership alone.

But at the cost of driving away potential new members, it's important to have this distinction. New members try to change the narrative over time, general consensuses will become slowly more blue pill, ultimately content makers might have started shifting their focus.

Anyway, in an attempt to almost completely contradict myself now, I tried to explain this forum in a nutshell to a friend (he asked). It poses a dilemma because he's as bluepill as it gets. If I state "it's a sexual strategy discussion group", he'll instantly receive his confirmation biases, and I've gotten no where. Maybe that's still the optimal approach... people outwardly reject ideas all the time, but one day something might click.

I told him it was a modern day philosophy on sexual dynamics. It at least kept the conversation going, but it's ultimately pointless whatever I said... If you end up in that situation, just drive the conversation to talking about ex's or something rather than TRP, discuss TRP content without the title of TRP lingering over it to those who have negative preconceptions. Outsiders are going to strawman you anyway, why do it to yourself?

[–]darkrood1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Imagine if mod does not bother to step in to correct the courses:

soon in you local book store:

"The Secret......red pill"

"Chicken soup for the red pill men"

"How I apply red pill to save my marriage"

"Dr Phil: Gudie for the Red pill Men"


[–]Hokuto199x6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for preserving the sub's core message. The actual informational posts by people who get it have been helpful to me in the past year. The improvements I've made have impacted my SMV, but they still apply to other parts of my life too. The improvement in the success of my sex life has probably also spilled over into other areas. The increase in my knowledge of sexual strategy allows me to competently navigate my interactions and relationships with women in ways I never knew I could before. Also, I'll be damned if I'm not more positive about being a man and having masculine characteristics. Also - no, the sub hasn't made me hateful/resentful toward women - that's just bs.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy

There is a serious lack of reading comprehension here. My guess is that years of rote memorization in school coupled with the intellectual desert that is the media landscape has seriously retarded people's analysis abilities. In effect what this does is whenever a new idea is presented it is reduced to the most readily available precept and then that precept is argued against rather than the idea.

In my latest post I wrote:

It's far easier to learn from nerds than Professor Tunak who only talks about shit that isn't on the test. Nerds digest the information for you, arrange it into neat outlines, and make studying way easier.

I got a lot of responses saying:

Just "manipulating" nerds into doing your homework simply isn't going to be enough to pass or help you build skills for the future.

Now there is a huge fucking difference between using someone to help you learn a new concept especially when the professor is opaque as fuck and mindlessly copying homework. The first one helps you learn. The second one makes you dependent.

My post said nothing about homework. Yet copying homework was referenced over and over again.

In people's minds using nerds is synonyms with copying their homework because that is the trope presented by media and schools. When people skim your shit their just going to rely on tropes for their analysis.

Another time I made a joke about invading New Zealand to overthrow their feminist government:

The Red Pill is 120 thousand fit college educated middle class men. If we really wanted to we could invade New Zealand and install a new government. We definitely have the manpower. There are plenty of veterans here. Plus everyone here knows where the magazine release is on an M16, from years of playing Call Of Duty.

A lot of people understood the joke and agreed and amplified. However a substantial percentage took me at face value in a show of sheer autism.

The Red Pill isn't for everyone, especially those who operate on a sixth grade reading level. I have no idea how to address this issue. Maybe I should just write a Pat the Bunny Red Pill book ,for all of you special little boys.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah I saw that thread, it was jokes, similar to that post about diet you once posted where if you recommended chicken and rice they would say, why not white fish and quinoa.

Nowhere in that thread did you say to not work hard, it was more about the importance of networking in university, like Jesus the amount of sperglord in that thread was off the charts.

"Value is contextual."

Hurr, mixing drinks and cooking are useless skills, anyone could do it durr, it wont help you later in life (though it will).

[–]remember132 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Also, a great number of people are still indoctrinated. They still believe in a world that is fair and repays hard work. They believe that cheating is wrong.

Nobody here says that you shouldn't work hard, quite the contrary. But you have to work hard to take what you want as compared to working hard to earn what you want. Nobody is going to give you anything unless you take it and everybody else out there will try to take advantage of you with absolutely every opportunity.

The Red Pill is a shield against exploitation (from women), but you are always encouraging us to take it to the next step.

[–]darkrood1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

well, I guess you hit a sensitive nerves of those male SJWs who were nerds that have been exploited by some jocks or bitches in school days.

You just mention about "using" nerds, then their minds just fill in the blanks of those past exploitation on school plantation. ;)

[–]1rporion2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

During this 24-hours, you now have the goal of self-improving, starting with your reading comprehension.

This made me lol....

Anyhow, having thought about it, working on your reading comprehension is actually quite hard, because if you lack it, you think you know what you just read, but how can you be sure?

[–]pillpapa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank god this place isn't a democracy.

[–]Zagiggity1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not the most RP individual in the world and upon first impression I thought the same thing about self-improvement. I didn't comment because I was sure I missed something and upon more reading it was clear I had. Also, if someone is that concerned with improving ones self, there are countless reading materials scattered across the web of such material.

[–]TheMusicalNihilist1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

You want self - improvement? Go to www.reddit.com/r/becomeaman

This was a subreddit made specifically for that. Go there, and stop bitching about it here.

[–]darkrood0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

eh....I saw a post on there "become a cam girl"

safe to say that not all of them try to be man?

[–]TheMusicalNihilist0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

That was probably the ad at the top. You see that all over reddit.

[–]rpscrote1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A core BP tactic and thought-process is to intentionally miss the point and misconstrue any argument you don't agree with in the worst possible light. Like gaslighting, or political smear ads.

I suspect its intentional more often than its truly a reading comprehension failing imo. Good work on taking care of these sorts of trolls mod team, thank you.

[–]my_redpill_account1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I guess the first step for me is to fess up. I am one of those guys. Fuck man. My own hamster got to me.

Well lesson learned, gonna go read the side bar PDF again. Going to stay away from posting here for a bit.

[–]Redasshole7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Just a useless comment to say thank you for the hard work.

As there is more and more newcomers, a lot more anger phase posts are written (AWALT-look at what she had done!).

Some sees a decrease in quality content. I simply point out to the fantastic work of the EC and the mods who delivers high quality content on a weekly/daily basis.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks red, it means a lot. The team here works tirelessly.

[–]haxurmind0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I know how much of a burden moderation is so my thanks is for both; the results provided in this sub and, living up to the words of this sub by example by acquiring broader shoulders to carry the load of a moderator.

[–]1OneRedYear1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hell yah. So much fucking aspie reading and commenting around this place. No wonder chad is stealing their girls. Fuckers can't see the forest for the trees around here.

[–]Antibuddy1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Good move. What you experienced is the typical reaction of the typical person. There is this frustrating inability of people to think in anything but a binary way.

"Oh, so it's not all about self-improvement? Well then it's not about self improvement at all!"

And sadly, I find this to be more prevalent with younger people. They just haven't developed complex thinking yet, even if we don't think this is the most complex way to think.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well they'll all enjoy a ban until they do learn it. It's the best way to learn!

[–]RedPillTheorist1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I still can't comprehend how this had to be said twice. Yes, there's a lot of self-improvement topics here at /r/TheRedPill, but that doesn't mean this has stopped being a sex-related sub. People who may not share that views already have other communities and ideologies, as PUA and MGTOW. If you don't share our nor those views, it's as easy as creating one of your own. But don't try to change this subreddit's purpose or ideals to make it fit your own ones, nor to justify your way of thinking to please other people.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Though as a side note I believe MGTOW is a sexual strategy and is perfectly on topic, I can't imagine anybody ghosting would want to participate here though.

[–]RedPillTheorist1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have to agree, but i don't find it as sexual-centered as the red pill. If i wasn't planning to become a family man some day, i would be one of them.

[–]TRP VanguardYouDislikeMyOpinion2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have a natural desire to be around people as well as women. I can't turn it off.

Fake gratification from fake sources do not work for me. Games don't give me a sense of accomplishment. Porn doesn't give me a sense of fulfilling my biological need. Women provide the yang to my yin.

I don't have an uphill battle to fight to attract women like a lot of MGTOWs, and I indulge in what I like. I don't have any children right now. It's on the list. But that's not why I am not a MGTOW.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wouldn't MGTOW be an asexual strategy?

[–]TheMGhandi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Someday my penis will bigger than yours rps...

[–]8thhenry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A well needed post. Thank you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

good mods

[–]1sardinemanR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This needs to remain stickied. Sick of arguing with people that claim "TRP has nothing to do with sexual strategy."

[–]Luckyluke230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Man I got away for a few weeks and this happens?!

The way I've always seen it was self improvement with the intent of getting laid. ( because of you don't improve you won't get laid )

(This is just how I feel I'm not looking to troll or otherwise this please don't ban)

This is not the case?

It doesn't matter either way. The red pill has great advice about being a better man on all different fronts. Though mostly it's about fucking women haha.

[–]darkrood0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Gosh...I love self-improvement. If I don't want to waste any time on women, then....I just reject women IRL?

Seriously, why the debate? if you don't agree with the whole package of RP, then just take what you want and shut off your mind about the rest? Or they can create a sub called r/self_improvement

edit: there are already plenty of subs just for self-improvement btw

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy

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