Lost Boys. Over 100 boys die unnecessarily in US as a result of circumcision.

iainmf · 2020-01-25T00:21:45+00:00

A number of users have brought up issues of reliability with this study in the comments below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esr5ik/lost_boys_over_100_boys_die_unnecessarily_in_us/ffbo7g7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esr5ik/lost_boys_over_100_boys_die_unnecessarily_in_us/ffchyav?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esr5ik/lost_boys_over_100_boys_die_unnecessarily_in_us/ffeusm2?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esr5ik/lost_boys_over_100_boys_die_unnecessarily_in_us/ffecdzg?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

DarthEquus · 2020-01-23T10:40:49+00:00

Not to mention the other, non-lethal complications that can happen with circumcision

And even when circumcision goes "perfectly," it is still a damaging operation by definition as it removes healthy, functional, and erogenous tissue.

ThomasPollock · 2020-01-23T12:21:21+00:00

And a lot more are murdered by their mothers and the death is listed as crib death (SIDS).

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190724104012.htm

Tmomp · 2020-01-23T13:34:21+00:00

Even if not one boy died or suffered a single complication, outside medical necessity, it's his body and his choice.

If he chooses it as an adult, he can. Until then, don't chop up his body.

Mens_rights_matter2 · 2020-01-23T16:26:17+00:00

I feel like ONE of the main things holding back any progress on banning circumcision is that so many fathers and brothers have it done that parents don't want to have their new baby be any different. Think about that though for a second, being exactly how you are born is being "different." TWO, somehow women prefer circumcised dicks because of how they look. Mothers are women and they would prefer to have their sons dick look better. THREE, the narrative that it is cleaner has become an excuse. Yes it is cleaner if you are never taught how to daily wash yourself or if you live in a third world country and don't have access to a daily hot shower with soap. Circumcision is barbaric and to make a equally barbaric counter point, female labia needs to be washed daily and it would be "cleaner" to just cut them off. But I am somehow barbaric for even making that counter point. I would never condone such barbarism in reality, obviously. Circumcision and FGM should be banned in all modern civilizations that have voting and both the parents who approve and doctors who perform such procedures should be punished by law. IT IS A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION pure and simple.

ukiyuh · 2020-01-23T13:19:24+00:00

Can you sue as an adult for being circumcised as a baby?

DeaDra17 · 2020-01-23T15:31:31+00:00

My understanding is that circumcision is completely unnecessary, so why has it been a common practice in hospitals?

SValleyTechGuy68 · 2020-01-24T04:08:22+00:00

There is evidence that natal circumcision also stunts penile growth. A study was done that produced data that boys who were circumcised at birth had on average penises that were half an inch shorter than boys who's penises were circumcised as adolescents. I would be interested to see what the difference would be against no circumcision.

electronicoffee · 2020-01-24T04:23:46+00:00

And we don't track bleeds, shocks, or other complications post-circumcision when the baby goes home either, and most parents don't even report or know about the complications, thus the number of dead boys per year is probably 10x that or more.

Mens-Advocate · 2020-01-24T11:47:46+00:00

The title is fake news and should be removed before it discredits us.

Circumcision is indeed a risk to health - especially in the massive incidence of unhygienic procedures in the third world - but the Bollinger study is a methodological farce.

http://circumcisionnews.blogspot.com/2010/05/fatally-flawed-bollingers-circumcision.html

I’ve noticed more reliable studies, but unfortunately most fail to distinguish trivial from catastrophic consequences.

That’s why I’ve argued here that mandatory tracking and botch registration is the most expedient way forward.

Ketsuni · 2020-01-23T10:28:37+00:00

The actual numbers appear to be much lower: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30066572

I could see deaths being greater in 3rd world countries where sanitation and medical advancements aren't as readily available, but in the US that doesn't appear to be the case.

Mentioned_Videos · 2020-01-23T19:51:58+00:00

Videos in this thread: Watch Playlist ▶

VIDEO	COMMENT
[NSFW] Functions of Foreskin	+105 - Not to mention the other, non-lethal complications that can happen with circumcision And even when circumcision goes "perfectly," it is still a damaging operation by definition as it removes healthy, funvtional, and erogenous tissue.
(1) A Historical and Medical Critique of Circumcision - Dr. Christopher Guest (2) Child Circumcision: An Elephant in the Hospital (3) Debunking David Pakman: "Male Circumcision Is Beneficial!" (4) Circumcision - a sexual harm? (5) Why male circumcision defenders are fighting to legalize "FGM" (6) [NSFW] Sex & Circumcision: An American Love Story by Eric Clopper	+1 - If I may, I would recommend watching these presentations: This presentation from Dr. Guest goes over the medical aspects very well: He covers the anatomy of the foreskin, the sensations, the medical aspects and statistics, the evolutionary aspects, ...

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ausgamer529 · 2020-01-24T03:03:55+00:00

Sometimes I wish i was one of them

lporiginalg · 2020-01-23T16:31:42+00:00

This study is horseshit and has been debunked 1000 times.

MrMorsley · 2020-01-23T17:28:37+00:00

And it's only us that speak for them, and a handful of decent, understanding women. This is so sad, and in most cases, completely avoidable.

Zdrack · 2020-01-23T21:27:57+00:00

More die to circumcision than mass shootings

musicnbooks9999 · 2020-04-02T18:07:36+00:00

That’s because they forcibly retract the foreskin.

Empress_Rach · 2020-01-23T18:27:59+00:00

That's about as many as mass shootings. So why arent we banning that?

MeanLogic · 2020-01-24T05:16:15+00:00

This thread is extremely misleading. Critical thinking is a gift people - please use it. You have an entire worlds worth of knowledge at your fingertips. At least do a little personal research before swallowing every little pill the internet wants to shove down your throat.

The article itself points out that these deaths cannot be attributed wholly to circumcision alone but other compounding circumstances after the procedure was completed. I'll highlight the excerpts - again - from the very article OP provides.

"The coroner found that Abrahams had performed the surgeries properly, and that the boys died from blood loss as a result of parental neglect. Neither boy had received a follow-up examination." So, it wasn't the procedure, but neglect.

What the article says about Allen Ervin - "Allen Ervin, born 1985, was in a coma for more than six years before he died. He had been on life support after his brain was damaged from oxygen deprivation during his circumcision."What actually happened - http://www.cirp.org/news/1992.07.10_boy-dies/"Allen's medical problems began when oxygen was pushed into his stomach, instead of his lungs, court records showed. Anesthesiologists inserted a tube into the baby's stomach to relieve the pressure but administered three times the recommended dosage of a drug to slow his abnormally high heart rate, stopping it." So, it wasn't the circumcision that resulted in the boys coma and eventual death, it was an overdose administered by medical staff.

The OP Article - "Demetrius Manker was born in 1993 and died soon thereafter from blood loss. The coroner’s examination found a large, gaping wound on the underside of the boy’s penis extending almost to the scrotum. The coroner listed cause of death as blood loss due to penile circumcision; however, there is no mention of further action being taken."More to the story - https://www.deseret.com/1993/6/27/19053588/baby-bleeds-to-death-after-circumcision"The autopsy revealed a seemingly normal circumcision, he said. Authorities were still trying to determine whether the baby suffered some rare disease that prevented his blood from coagulating." It is therefore likely that this child had hemophilia - a rare medical condition that is nearly impossible to diagnose unless the person who has it suffers a wound or has blood drawn specifically to test for it. The blood loss may have been due to the circumcision, but any other bleeding injury would have been equally as fatal.OH - and this - "The coroner’s examination found a large, gaping wound on the underside of the boy’s penis extending almost to the scrotum. The coroner listed cause of death as blood loss due to penile circumcision; however, there is no mention of further action being taken." - is not mentioned anywhere in the original documentation of the story and reeks of hyperbole. It was added to make the story sound more alarming. Click-bait - if you will.

The OP Article - "A West Virginia child, whose name was withheld, was born in 1996 without incident and circumcised prior to hospital release. A few days later, the parents rushed him to the emergency room because he was having seizures and his penis had turned green in color. He died the next day from septicemia."
Results - There is not enough information provided to do any real research on this and I tried a number of different ways - including searching local state news stories around that time. No name available. I was able to find the original article here - https://www.academia.edu/6394940/Lost_Boys_An_Estimate_of_U.S._Circumcision-Related_Infant_Deaths - but even the citation in that paper leads to a dead end. This could be nothing more than an urban legend that has managed to make it's way into an academic paper. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened, and because more and more people have no idea how to actually research things these days, I assume it will only get worse as time goes on.
That said, septicemia and the "green color" is a mixture of parental neglect and allowing the infection to remain untreated for long enough that it turned gangrenous. Both septicemia and gangrene are medical conditions that are easily avoided with proper care and - well - parental awareness/actively caring for the child.

The OP Article - "In 2008, a 6-week-old Native American, Eric Keefe, died from massive blood loss. Hospital officials claimed that his circumcision was not to blame, but instead faulted the parents because they had administered over-the-counter pain medication that, they also claimed, thinned his blood."
Results - Even this story says an obvious issue - "they had administered over-the-counter pain medication that, they also claimed, thinned his blood." MOST over the counter medications are NSAID's - they thin the blood. Almost ALL doctors will tell you that you should never give NSAID's to infants - especially aspirin - because it can be extremely hazardous to the infants health and general development; up to and including links to brain damage.
More to the story - https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/top-stories/sd-couple-files-lawsuit-over-circumcision-death/article_7cd3acbd-eeee-5c7b-81d9-7a50a9b4389c.html"The lawsuit filed Wednesday in federal court says Eric Keefe was circumcised at Indian Health Service Hospital on June 13, 2008. Once discharged, his mother gave him Motrin and Tylenol for the pain. He died the next day of massive blood loss.

Forrest and Mary Keefe say in court documents the hospital failed to instruct them on what pain medications to give the boy."The matter was settled out of court.

The OP Article - "Dustin Evans Jr., was circumcised soon after being born in 1998. The surgeon took so much shaft skin that the scar healed as a tight “collar” around his penis, preventing him from urinating. When he was later given an anesthetic in order to repair the damage, he immediately died of cardiopulmonary arrest."
The Results - I find this one rather interesting because the search leads into one giant circle - one site pointing to another and none of them happen to have a link or any other details on the actual report that this is supposed to be from. IN FACT, I even went to the News Net 5 website and performed a search for Dustin Evans Jr. with no results. Nothing. There are also no citations to an actual article where this story would have originated from.

Ak47110 · 2020-01-23T14:58:14+00:00

What is it with this sub and circumcision? I dont care about this at all.

xeronymau5 · 2020-01-23T16:46:15+00:00

Nothing compared to the over 9 billion animals tormented and slaughtered for meat each year.

Title	Lost Boys. Over 100 boys die unnecessarily in US as a result of circumcision.
Author	benderXX
Upvotes	1284
Comments	137
Date	January 23, 2020 10:16 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/esr5ik/lost_boys_over_100_boys_die_unnecessarily_in_us/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/lost-boys-over-100-boys-die-unnecessarily-in-us-as.860456 https://theredarchive.com/post/860456

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