I, a young, left-leaning woman, just had a 180deg shift in perspective about men’s rights & MRAs.

Draggonzz · 2018-05-21T18:38:02+00:00

Good on you for being open minded.

How could men also be marginalized if they had all the power?

This misconception right here is the source of so much misunderstanding. Assuming all men share in this power is an example of the apex fallacy.

ThirdTurnip · 2018-05-21T18:18:45+00:00

Hey thanks for the sympathy.

I just wish people worked for equality under the law and realized that everyone has it rough in some way or another.

I hate how people can look at others and assume things about how hard their lives are by their race or gender. Blah.

tenchineuro · 2018-05-21T18:10:42+00:00

That's a good video, hopefully more women will watch it

Splatriarchy · 2018-05-21T20:23:29+00:00

You sound like an intelligent compassionate person. I hope you go far in your career and reach all of your goals in life.

macrolinx · 2018-05-21T18:58:39+00:00

Thanks for your open mindedness and for sharing your experience.

isperfectlycromulent · 2018-05-21T22:43:12+00:00

Be prepared to not be able to post in /r/feminism anymore. They preemptively ban people who post here.

Lethn · 2018-05-21T18:46:55+00:00

Prepare to immediately be called a Nazi, racist and accused of having internalised misogyny for daring to even think differently from your left wing peers.

We all face injustice, and neither INVALIDATES the other

Exactly and this is one of the big reasons why MRAs and everybody else hates feminists so much. Honestly, as long as people understand that much then that's a huge step forward as far as I'm concerned. Far too many people are eager to sweep men's issues under the rug and quite literally pretend that men don't have feelings and are incapable of experiencing any kind of discrimination or prejudice.

bufedad · 2018-05-21T18:45:18+00:00

Thank you.

PatriarchysConcubine · 2018-05-22T03:01:17+00:00

Welcome to the real world. You can never go back.(Also a left leaning woman here)

Word of advice, don't ever stop trying to unravel the nonsense you've been fed from birth. It just keeps going.

peskysquirms · 2018-05-21T21:42:36+00:00

Woman of colour in STEM. I hope you are making good money as well, as much as anybody in your field would. What you did represents a part of mens rights:you are living proof that no man stopped you from getting into that field.

SaintAmidatelion · 2018-05-21T18:29:49+00:00

Thank you kindly. I wish more people would open their eyes to the problems that many men have to deal with. I just love the work of Cassie Jaye. Not only because she has brought some much needed attention to many of the problems men face, but also because she dared to approach her "enemy". She humanized a group that too often is referred to as a hate group by feminists, when it's just another group of people trying to fight for their rights.

And jusy as you say, we all face injustice but that doesn't invalidate neither from the other.

Thanks again. Posts like yours give me hope.

DirtyDuzIt · 2018-05-22T01:04:33+00:00

I think the biggest issue men face related to sexism is societies pressure to be strong.

Women have overcame many of social norms. Men however get screwed here really bad still.

A few examples.

1 someone cat calls my girlfriend I'm supposed to retaliate or I look like a coward.

2 always expected to do dangerous things first climbing ladders, killing spiders, etc.

3 always expected to move everything heavy.

4 a housewife is glorified as the hardest job in the world. A house husband is very very often looked down upon by just about everybody.

5 expected to know things or I'm not a real man driving stick shift, basic car repair, how to start a chainsaw, etc.

Obviously women have their own struggles socially I don't really believe one is worse then the other more like the sexes have unique struggles.

SpareAnimalParts · 2018-05-21T20:28:01+00:00

Hey, thanks for taking the time to learn about it. It's a lot more effort than most people go to, and that trouble is one of the main reasons that so many people view the men's rights movement in a negative light.

We've all got issues, and it can obviously be hard to empathize with all of them when we're so aware of our own, and because of how different our issues are, but that effort that you've already put into it means a lot. We're all in this together.

AssAssIn46 · 2018-05-21T19:17:08+00:00

Just want to make something clear. 'The Red Pill' used to refer to a fucked up sub called r/TheRedPill which was sexist, misogynist, the whole lot. r/MensRight was not affiliated with them. Admittedly we had some crossover with them but blatant sexism from them was usually downvoted. IIRC it's banned now. This is why when 'The Red Pill' documentary was released a lot of people were confused, it wasn't the best naming choice to be honest but the documentary is unrelated to it.

Anyway I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind.

I wouldn’t consider myself a feminist, but as a woman of color in STEM I felt especially marginalized.

For example? Honestly, I'm just curious.

and there’s actually some stuff I still don’t agree with

Same thing are above.

2018-05-21T18:51:24+00:00

please share what you have learned.

TheFutureIsMale · 2018-05-21T19:12:58+00:00

I think I didn’t accept this before because I was afraid that acknowledging these issues would take away from my own, women’s issues. I now don’t think this is the case.

Well, that is the case. We in Mens Rights work towards removing your privileges as a poc woman in STEM and you should join us. Everyone should be treated equally regardless of race, gender etc.

Welcome to the club

crnext · 2018-05-22T06:28:20+00:00

Feminism is no more about equality than heads or tails is about standing a coin on its edge. The very name feminism is derived from the French root femme which literally translates to "woman". The very name places all attention, focus, and power on women under the false guise of "equality".

The true and correct name for equality is egalitarianism.

I'll 100% back any woman who has to pass the same physical strength-endurance tests I have to pass, in order to join military, fire, police flight school, etc. Open arms. But you have to pass an identical test to mine.

jimmywiddle · 2018-05-22T16:05:46+00:00

"We could spend days arguing about who faces more injustice, but it doesn’t really matter. We all face injustice, and neither INVALIDATES the other"

Ding Ding Ding Ding The lady gets it !!!!!

SubTukkZero · 2018-05-21T22:28:31+00:00

Sharing this thought means a lot to me, and I have no doubt it means a lot to everyone else here. Thank you. Thank you so much. You have brightened my day!

a_unique___username · 2018-05-22T06:26:52+00:00

Shout out to you for having an open mind. You are welcome here. I think what I loved that she pointed out is that Men’s rights activists do support equality for woman. They just also want to raise awareness to issues that are being silenced. Equality for all is important, and love for all. It’s time to stop thinking of the other as the enemy. Let’s all come together out of love and respect.

shit-zen-giggles · 2018-05-21T18:26:21+00:00

Great to hear you're open to adjust your perspective when the facts are in front of you contradict your current world view. That will be a vital skill to have in your STEM career, so cultivate it beyond gender issues.

Could you elborate about the stuff you still don't agree with?

Would be very interested in your perspective. Thanks :-)

PIG_CUNT · 2018-05-22T04:00:17+00:00

as a woman of color in STEM I felt especially marginalized.

Why? You fell victim to the narrative that women and non white people are marginalized in STEM, which they’re not.

“Marginalized” means “treated (a person, group, or concept) as insignificant or peripheral.” That’s generally just not done in STEM; it’s a meritocracy. NOBODY sidelines a badass engineer because they’re a woman, or - even more ridiculous- because they’re not white. (LOL!)

The reason you fell for that “I’m a woman, therefore I’m treated as insignificant” and “I’m not white, therefore I’m treated as insignificant” narrative is that you don’t see yourself as an individual, you see yourself as a woman and a non white person. Big mistake. Guys in STEM don’t see themselves as male or as their race, when it comes to STEM (meaning, their job). They see themselves as themselves, the person. Race and sex are irrelevant and do not even enter into the equation when it comes to whether or not you are doing the job.

Furthermore, the idea you started believing, that non whites are marginalized in STEM, is truly moronic. I’m not saying you’re moronic, but as I said, the idea you swallowed is. Are you going to tell me that Indians and Asians are sidelined and treated as insignificant in STEM? LOL. Where? And how?

Electroverted · 2018-05-21T21:47:49+00:00

Since you mentioned feeling marginalized as a PoC, do you notice the covert racism in a lot of white western feminists? It seems to be there, but like I said, they try to mask it.

One of the greatest displays of their racism has been the Dear Colleague / Title IX changes we've seen in the last few years, with black male college students being the most affected by false accusations and severe punishments.

Another, more minor display of their racism was that "8 hours in New York" video, showing a white girl walking through Manhattan and getting harassed by mostly minority men.

Both of these cases, they mask it well, but it comes out.

s0v3r1gn · 2018-05-21T23:53:18+00:00

How do you define left leaning?

Karma9999 · 2018-05-22T02:03:36+00:00

Thanks for linking that video, it was beautifully done.

Sad to say, but be careful who you open up to like this in real life, it may make you a target.

lemproplayer · 2018-05-22T03:23:56+00:00

Amen

FlatbushZubumafu · 2018-05-22T04:20:18+00:00

My thing is, feminists generally just dismiss mens rights issues by saying.. "we just need to dismantle the patriarchy! cant you see that toxic masculinity hurts you too?!?" and im always slightly offput by this because the opposite of toxic masculinity being toxic feminity would bean get rid of traditional dads and moms....thats not really the answer to ending sexual assault for women and ending MR Issues either...

cld8 · 2018-05-22T04:58:36+00:00

Thanks for posting and being open minded. Please keep speaking out. I firmly believe that women are the best advocates for men's rights. When men speak out about gender issues, they are often dismissed as being bitter or jealous, but when women say the same thing, they get more attention. Cassie Jaye is a great example.

thisisme201413 · 2018-05-22T05:23:49+00:00

thank you. thank you.

NynjaWerewulf · 2018-05-22T05:43:23+00:00

Men need men’s rights and women need women’s rights. We could spend days arguing about who faces more injustice, but it doesn’t really matter. We all face injustice, and neither INVALIDATES the other

I appreciate this, I think it's important to not become tribal over these things and I think identifying as an MRA or Feminist is a slippery slope towards developing an Us vs Them mentality. It's best to be egalitarian and work to improve the lives of everyone.

I recommend Dr. Warren Farrel's TEDx Talk "The Boy Crisis" for further reading, if you're interested.

TheJazzProphet · 2018-05-22T06:12:46+00:00

I suppose, as a STEM student, you're probably better equipped to have this kind of experience. It seems like scientific/engineering minded people tend to be a lot more willing to incorporate new information and actually process it, as opposed to non-scientists who seem less able to rationally process new information that conflicts with their world view. Science, after all, is based on the idea that, in order to propose a new idea, you must first try your hardest to disprove it.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2018-05-22T12:36:38+00:00

Thanks for keeping an open mind. The world would be a far better place if everyone was capable of reexamining their beliefs in light of new evidence. Instead of just rejecting the evidence.

2018-05-22T14:23:29+00:00

Good on you. I wish you success. But please if you ever get the chance - try to pass on your perspective to other women. We men are forbidden from doing so by social orthodoxy.

McFeely_Smackup · 2018-05-22T17:15:05+00:00

Now, I wouldn’t consider myself a Men’s Rights activist either (and there’s actually some stuff I still don’t agree with

Is honestly be curious what issues you don't agree with.

peskysquirms · 2018-05-22T18:27:12+00:00

The Red Pill is a good movie. It's clear how deluded feminists are, clinging to an ideology they want to believe in and unable to see the truth because they avoid facts that would hurt their feelings and harm their belief system. It's sad how many people run from the truth no matter who it hurts because it's easier for themselves. Men's rights are not the only issue where this is a problem - there are many red pills, and very deep rabbit holes in this blue pill world.

peskysquirms · 2018-05-22T18:38:02+00:00

It is nice that she focused on the lack of male choice in reproduction. In the future it will be seen as a gross insanity that people were able to frame it as her body her choice while giving men and boys no choice at all over who they want to have children with, in a society that clearly already separates sex from reproduction, so there can be no implicit consent to have kids when on3 has sex. In the future, both parties will require explicit content to have a child. It's the only sensible and just decision. Any other way of framing it requires severe delusion as a result of the cultlike indoctrination of our culture.

A lot of things about our insane society will be seen for what they are, soon enough. A change is a-comin'.

Alexineri · 2018-05-23T02:39:06+00:00

Why do mods only seem to sticky threads made by women that change their mind?

gixxer · 2018-05-23T08:18:16+00:00

> as a woman of color in STEM I felt especially marginalized

How so?

throwaway_ftb · 2018-05-21T19:40:10+00:00

being a minority doesnt make you marginalized. just because the msm says you are marginalized doesnt make you marginalized either.

2018-05-21T18:32:52+00:00

Wow, that's amazing. Most liberals aren't open minded enough to even talk to people with different beliefs (unless you include screaming at). Very refreshing, more people on both sides need to be realize there can be no progress while you marginalize or make generalizations about another group. Prejudice is prejudice, one form is no better than another.

DavidByron2 · 2018-05-21T19:26:36+00:00

these issues would take away from my own, women’s issues

Like what issues?

We could spend days arguing about who faces more injustice

No I don't think we could because everybody can name many very important rights issues facing men and nobody ever seems to be able to name any issues of consequence facing women (unless men face the same thing worse). So it's really not much of a debate. Every time I see someone saying women have issues I ask them to please name one and nobody ever can..... so again.... not a debate as such.

We all face injustice

Sure because the working class is shafted by the elites but that's not a sex issue.

I’m sorry all these years for not seeing that your issues were as valid as my own

Well it seems like all that happened is you watched a video and got educated. Maybe you decided to trust the source since it was a woman, I don't know. I don't think you can be faulted for not having heard of this stuff before. The fault lies with other people who fed you misinformation your whole life.

TruthEqualsBan · 2018-05-22T02:01:43+00:00

Look, you're not going to like reading what I'm about to write, u/SN2014dt. It's going to be unpleasant, it might make you afraid, and I desperately hope I'm wrong. However, SOMEONE here needs to do the equivalent of look you in the eyes and tell you the shitty truth, so...here goes:

It. Is. Too. Late.

The West has already passed the point of no return down this rabbit hole. This situation will get worse and worse until men burn whatever fraction of civilization is necessary just to get out of what will be their chains, up to and including 1/1.

I believe the best course of action is to ensure that as much scientific and engineering knowledge survives whatever is to come along with any and all sane individuals that can be spared.

And I don't like any of that any more than any of YOU.

MuhTriggersGuise · 2018-05-21T22:14:18+00:00

In less than 15 Minutes, a TEDx talk almost totally changed my mind

Wow, you must've had a well thought out point of view if it could be completely changed in 15 minutes.

2018-05-22T00:30:41+00:00

Talk's cheap.

Title	I, a young, left-leaning woman, just had a 180deg shift in perspective about men’s rights & MRAs.
Author	SN2014dt
Upvotes	508
Comments	130
Date	May 21, 2018 5:28 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/8l2lrd/i_a_young_leftleaning_woman_just_had_a_180deg/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-a-young-left-leaning-woman-just-had-a-180deg.900866 https://theredarchive.com/post/900866

Comments

1 someone cat calls my girlfriend I'm supposed to retaliate or I look like a coward.

2 always expected to do dangerous things first climbing ladders, killing spiders, etc.

3 always expected to move everything heavy.

4 a housewife is glorified as the hardest job in the world. A house husband is very very often looked down upon by just about everybody.

5 expected to know things or I'm not a real man driving stick shift, basic car repair, how to start a chainsaw, etc.