Why are people attacked for supporting Men's Rights?

Vanriel · 2015-09-11T03:45:03+00:00

I get the same experiences. I tried to explain to a couple of people (one woman and one white knight who thought the sun shone out of feminism backside) and despite the fact that i was backing the points up with facts and studies i would of had better luck talking to a brick wall.

BlueDoorFour · 2015-09-11T04:36:13+00:00

The common tendency is to divide society into "oppressed" and "privileged," though not always with that exact terminology. It's easier to think of injustice as working that way. Some people, based on some characteristic, are disadvantaged. Those who lack that trait aren't. It's easy then to see who deserves sympathy and support.

Intersectionality makes it seem legitimate by combining categories, but ultimately still divides each category into an "privileged" vs "oppressed" split. We're left with a kind of oppression scoring system. Presumably, this then dictates where we're allowed to direct sympathy or support.

The attitude is then to take what we learn in history class (that women throughout human history didn't have the same opportunities as men), throw away all context and nuance, and simply apply "female" as a universal disadvantage trait. Talking about men's issues is then exactly the same as talking about "white issues" -- it's nonsensical. Any group that addresses "so-called 'men's issues'" could only be a branch of traditionalism trying to undo progress.

Blame whatever ideology you like (feminism is the prime suspect here...), but this is how we're going to be viewed until people learn more about it. Until they learn that men's issues are real, and not a side-effect of "patriarchy". Until they learn that men's rights are human rights, nothing more or less. Until they start hearing what we say and seeing what we do with their own eyes, and not through secondhand accounts of what "those MRA bastards (must) have done!" Until "MRA" stops being an acronym for the devil, and people understand that it refers to an advocate for human rights. You know.... when people grow the hell up, and realize the world isn't as neatly ordered as they might like.

ThePigmanAgain · 2015-09-11T02:16:09+00:00

Keep bashing them over the head with the facts. Sooner or later some of them will start to see the truth. It could be argued that this has already happened -- the amount of pop culture products that reflect MRA concerns is very high nowadays. Influential people are listening, even if they aren't willing to admit it.

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-09-11T04:34:20+00:00

Why are people attacked for supporting Men's Rights?

Because all these favorable attitudes towards women and hostile attitudes towards men are biologically ingrained into humanity. Sure, feminist brainwashing is also at fault, but it could never have happened without natural gynocentrism. Feminism utterly exploits gynocentrism. We are not only fighting against a pervasive, vicious ideology but against human nature.

cfcsvanberg · 2015-09-11T08:24:30+00:00

Because they have no real arguments or evidence to support their side of the argument, whatever that may be. So they have to resort to mudslinging.

MenandBoysareGood · 2015-09-11T10:36:58+00:00

I believe this video from Karen is relevant and explains everything:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-09-11T11:19:22+00:00

While a person may be smart people as a group are dumb panicky animals. People as a group can only understand concepts as two or three word definitions.

Feminism good.

MRA are Anti-feminism.

MRA bad.

Lots of academic sounding BS is layered on top of this painfully simplistic world view, but that serves to make it more palatable, not more truthful.

Most of what MRAs talk about get simplified to these two or three word sentences, and as two or three word sentences the ideas are bad.

Women, being fully functional adult people, are just as capable of evil and atrocity as men are.

This gets pared down to "Women are evil"

geoffry31 · 2015-09-11T12:46:21+00:00

Slightly offtopic, because procrastination

I'm not even sure how the Urban Dictionary ranking works;

the top rated one has

14224 upvotes & 8935 downvotes (cumulative 5289, 61% up)

Whereas the first one that isn't calling MRAs whiny is rank #7 and has

6553 upvotes & 1181 down votes (cumulative 5372, 85% up)

Even if you switch to the statistical algorithm offered by someone critiquing Urban Dictionary for apparently using a cumulative ranking system, you get ratings close to the above percentages.

The author of 5 of those top ranking 'whiny men' MRA definitions, appears to have written alot of anti-men/anti-mensrights definitions across a wide range of topics.

BruceCampbell123 · 2015-09-11T17:44:06+00:00

Because the common consensus is that if you're pro men's right, you're anti women's rights. It's really that simple.

dejour · 2015-09-11T20:53:11+00:00

Men's rights makes sense to people who think that both men and women suffer sexism. (Also to people who think that only men suffer sexism).

But many people think only women suffer sexism. So helping men in any way puts men further above women. The only reason you'd want to do this is because you think men are more important than women.

mikesteane · 2015-09-11T03:10:41+00:00

In real life, I find there is a lot of support for the type of views I express, both from men and women. The Web may be different, as with some specific areas such as education systems, but, under the surface, there is a great deal of support for us.

iainmf · 2015-09-11T04:38:01+00:00

I'm in the "give them enough rope, and they'll hang themselves" camp. I suspect that all the vitriol drives more people to our cause than not being mentioned at all.

I say 'bring it' and we will see who is left standing when the fact-cannon has destroyed all the falsehoods and lies.

2015-09-11T15:05:12+00:00

The seventh definition provided in the link is a fairly neutral (accurate) description of MRAs, for anyone who's interested in voting.

2015-09-11T15:43:21+00:00

If you spend your time arguing about how the MRM is not misogynistic, then you are off topic and have already lost the argument. You have been pushed into a defensive position and that is where your opponent wants you.

Let people think what they want because you, their opponent, are the last one capable of changing their mind on such a fundamental level. Your only hope is to stick to the topic and shut down their points with facts.

As Gandhi said, First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. We are currently in the third phase as we can no longer be ignored or laughed at.

xNOM · 2015-09-11T15:53:57+00:00

There are over 100k subscribers here. Just go there and vote.

2015-09-11T17:14:03+00:00

Well Urban Dictionary is SJW as fuck, first of all. I'm not saying that explains the hate. The mainstream media has made sure that a great many people's first exposure to the term "MRM" inaccurately associates it with Elliot Rodger.

DevilishRogue · 2015-09-11T18:04:15+00:00

Society assumes men to be disposable and their suffering not to matter. Addressing men's suffering and right's abuses takes attention and potentially resources away from addressing women's grievances and society deems anything that does that as inherently evil/wrong. Society isn't interested in achieving equality, it is interested in protecting and pedestalising women. Equality is just a label they've previously been able to use as a justification for doing so.

ee4m · 2015-09-11T19:31:56+00:00

Its basically down to double standards .

JayBopara · 2015-09-12T00:40:53+00:00

Regarding urban dictionary; that was trolled by misandric feminists. They sent about 15,000 upvotes about 4 years ago to every misandric feminist defintion of an MRA and also about 15,000 upvotes for every "feminism = equality" definition for feminism. And about 1,000 downvotes for every true definition of an MRA and also 1,000 downvotes for every non-conforming definition of feminism. Happened around 2011.

Just look at definition 7 of MRA which is reasonably accurate. It has about 7,000 upvotes vs 1,000 downvotes because it has not been trolled by feminists and white knights.

soulless_ging · 2015-09-11T16:27:19+00:00

Because unfortunately, many MRAs have a very inflammatory way of pushing their issues, and because of the very narrow definition of feminism that MRAs tend to use.

Many MRAs then get outraged when someone points out the positives of feminism. They say that women have always been privileged and men have always been oppressed.

Framing these incredibly complex issues in such a black and white manner, with no room for argument, comes off as incredibly narrow minded, ignorant, and sexist.

A lot of people who are not familiar with the MRA vernacular consider feminism to be a good thing. It gave women a lot of rights that they did not have over the past hundred years. So when a casual observer checks out this sub and see lot of comments bashing feminism, it's very off-putting.

MRAs can improve this by not lumping all feminists into the category of "evil." By understanding that radical man hating feminists are an admittedly louder but very small and disliked subset of a much larger group of feminists that just want equality.

They need to stop framing their arguments in an us vs them manner. They need to figure out how to support men who were wrongly accused of rape without acting like all women who say they were raped are liars.

Basically, they need to accept that women's issues aren't nonexistent. Nobody likes someone who acts like they're the only one with problems.

EDIT: I want to add that I am supportive of all the issues MRAs are fighting for. I want paternity leave, more equal rights for men in divorce pleadings, more homeless men's shelters, etc. I know the attitude I described above is not representative of all MRAs. But it's very prevalent in this sub. There are many regular users here that never want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt but will defend a man who was behaving terribly to the bitter end.

tiqr · 2015-09-11T14:33:24+00:00

It's complicated. I think most people are sympathetic to MRA issues, they just can't get over the programming we were all raised on: that women have been horribly oppressed throughout history. Once you've committed to this idea that women are an oppressed class (heck, we still call women a "minority"), it is difficult to be sympathetic to their "oppressors".

However, it is difficult to educate people out of this bias when the movement contains so much anger and hostility. There's a post on this sub right now titled "Andrew Moravcsik, Professional Mangina". People see that shit, and it immediately confirms their bias. They will look over 10 sensible, balanced, and well thought posts, and jump on that one example that confirms their suspicions about MRA.

The movement is nascent, and it is trying to transform a very well entrenched ideology about gender equality. Simply being "right" isn't enough. You need to overwhelmingly right, while simultaneously being as uncontroversial as possible.

AutoModerator · 2015-09-11T15:14:41+00:00

This is a repost from the sub but it's very relevant: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MRA

What is there can can even be done about this kind of thing? If people immediately assume the MRM is such an evil and negative thing how can we change anything?

First urbandiction is almost a joke website. But if you look closer all of the absurd definitions have almost as many downvotes as upvotes. People clearly negatively view those false definitions.

The bottom of page 1 you see the legitimate definition and it has 6000up and 1000 down. 6:1 vs 1.5:1

So what's something that can be done? Upvoting the correct definition is one trivial action.

equiposeur · 2015-09-11T13:03:10+00:00

Because the feminist debating style is to attack the person, not the argument.

McGauth925 · 2015-09-22T22:44:14+00:00

1, Not many MRAs have much good to say about feminism. To be fair, feminists don't tell the whole story of the relations between the genders. They tell it all from women's POV.

2.If it becomes accepted that men face quite a number of disadvantages, that women actually have unacknowledged privileges, then that diminishes the appeal that feminism has for both men and women. Thus, most feminists find a need to ignore male disadvantages and female privileges.

These two reason act together to make MRAs natural enemies of most feminists, despite the fact that both groups claim to favor equality..

azazelcrowley · 2015-09-11T15:00:57+00:00

Because of institutionalized gynocentrism. They are either traditionalists or feminists.

eletheros · 2015-09-11T23:54:41+00:00

Why are people attacked for supporting Men's Rights?

Women hate their authority being challenged.

Title	Why are people attacked for supporting Men's Rights?
Author	FureiousPhalanges
Upvotes	81
Comments	71
Date	September 11, 2015 2:12 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3khmyt/why_are_people_attacked_for_supporting_mens_rights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-people-attacked-for-supporting-mens-rights.971589 https://theredarchive.com/post/971589

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