Posted to r/askfeminists, now I want your opinion.

SilencingNarrative · 2015-02-08T14:10:13+00:00

I read the askfeminists thread and they seem to be saying that it was not sexist and therefore not as bad as if you were a woman getting her ass slapped.

I think the most obvious sexism here lies in the reactions of people telling you this is not a big deal because you are a man.

Being harrassed like that is a big deal regardless of whether this is an example of sexism or not. If anything, the fact that this happens less often to men probably makes it harder to deal with for you because people are going to offer you less sympathy.

The irony is that the people telling you this is not a big deal because you are a man are the ones enforcing unfair gender roles.

Edit: I was just banned from askafeminist and from feminism. I did not post in either subreddit. I can only assume someone didn't like my post here and decided to be pro-active.

Edit II: I was not being fair to the AskFeminist thread. The idea that the OP's being harassed was a serious issue, and that the ass-slappers were being sexist by not seeing it as a big deal because OP was a man was well supported by the upvotes taking place in that thread. ZombieOmNom called me on not being fair and I agree with their assessment.

faininghope · 2015-02-08T14:21:26+00:00

Firstly, yes it's a sexist double standard and no you shouldn't have to put up with it.

Normally, this would be something that would happen to someone very occasionally (which is annoying enough) but if it's happening constantly, particularly and especially if the same people are doing it, then that's pretty much a textbook case of bullying. Bring it up with your principle, if they won't deal with it, see if you can find someone higher up the chain who might be sympathetic, particularly someone with a strong anti-bullying stance. Failing that, consider talking to a local journalist about doing an anonymous interview (possibly even gender swapped) to put pressure on the issue.

2015-02-08T14:56:27+00:00

In CA, this is straight up sexual harassment.

Unwanted touching of the buttocks is actually one of the examples given by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (Rene v. MGM Grand Hotel Inc.) for an action.

Physical sexual assault has routinely been prohibited as sexual harassment under Title VII. A limited sampling of the reported decisions includes Henderson v. Simmons Foods, Inc., 217 F.3d 612, 616 (8th Cir.2000) (groping and shoving broom handle in crotch); Schmedding v. Tnemec Co., Inc., 187 F.3d 862, 865 (8th Cir.1999) (patting buttocks); Bailey v. Runyon, 167 F.3d 466, 467 (8th Cir.1999) (grabbing crotch); Lockard v. Pizza Hut, Inc., 162 F.3d 1062, 1067 (10th Cir.1998) (putting mouth on breast); Zimmerman v. Cook County Sheriff's Dep't, 96 F.3d 1017, 1018 (7th Cir.1996) (grabbing breast and rubbing buttocks); Quick v. Donaldson Co., 90 F.3d 1372, 1374 (8th Cir.1996) (grabbing and squeezing testicles and flicking groin); Varner v. Nat'l Super Markets, Inc., 94 F.3d 1209, 1211 (8th Cir.1996) (grabbing breasts); Wrightson v. Pizza Hut of America, Inc., 99 F.3d 138, 140 (4th Cir.1996) (rubbing genitals against buttocks); Waltman v. Int'l Paper Co., 875 F.2d 468, 472 (5th Cir.1989) (grabbing breasts and directing high pressure hose at crotch); Hall v. Gus Construction Co. Inc., 842 F.2d 1010, 1012 (8th Cir.1988) (rubbing thighs and grabbing breasts); Bohen v. City of East Chicago, 799 F.2d 1180, 1182 (7th Cir.1986) (pressing hands against crotch); Jones v. Wesco Invs., 846 F.2d 1154, 1155 (8th Cir.1986) (touching breasts, pinching and patting buttocks).

I don't know where you are, but in CA (and most other States, I would think), if you've reported this harassment to your school's administration and there is no response, they are liable for not stopping it.

Whether or not it is sexist is hardly an interesting question. It is wrong and illegal.

aesopstortoise · 2015-02-08T13:38:52+00:00

If the girls who slap your arse go around slapping every big arse they see regardless of the sex of the owner, then they aren't being sexist, but it doesn't sound like that. I can't see that the label really matters, it's disrespectful, out of order, and to use a phrase that is applied to public order situations in the UK, 'behaviour that is likely to result in a breach of the peace'.

guywithaccount · 2015-02-08T15:30:15+00:00

Since early on in high school everywhere I go girls harass me about my ass and how 'They just want to smack it' and often they do...

Tell 'em they can smack it if you can smack theirs first.

Or, you know, don't. But it seems like a perfect opening for some aggressive flirting, if you're interested in that. I never got chances like that when I was in school, or else I just didn't notice them.

This happens often and once it was a girl who identified as a feminist, when I brought it up to her and told her I felt that it was sexist. She decided to laughing and told me to deal with it and that this was true equality...needless to say by that point id had enough of that bull and went off on her.

I don't think it's sexist, exactly. These girls aren't going around talking about and smacking every guy's ass, just yours. That's not sexism, it's... it's you-ism. Or something.

But the fact that they can treat you like that, and not see anything wrong with it, and then complain if it happens to them, is a huge double standard. I bet that feminist isn't too happy about "dealing" with whatever real or imagined struggles she has in her life, and she sure as hell isn't going to declare society equal and give up feminism just because someone smacks you on the ass - but then her attitude shows that she thinks vengeance is equality and that men deserve to be harassed, which means she's just a man-hater.

I beleive that there responces said that it wasnt sexist because they cant see that people can be sexist towards men and thats the real problem with feminism, they are inherently bias against men.

Yes. There are two problems with the usual feminist view on sexism: first, the "sexism is prejudice + power" definition, which is wrong to begin with, and second, the belief that men have all the power and women have none. After all, if men really had all the power, couldn't you just bitchslap all those women into submission? You could, and then nothing bad would happen to you, because you're a MAN. With POWER. But we all know that's not how the world actually works; in fact it's usually women who abuse people and get away with it.

The belief that men have all the power is fundamental to feminism, so you're right: feminism is biased against men.

babno · 2015-02-08T16:13:58+00:00

I don't think it is sexist in itself. As humans we're biologically programmed to notice certain traits. They're not doing it cause you're a guy, they're doing it cause your ass.

What is sexist though is people telling you it's no big deal/ignore it/hahahahaha, and then turning around and saying people cat calling girls is akin to rape and should be out lawed.

StrikingEarth · 2015-02-08T18:40:39+00:00

This guy was seriously banned for asking question that feminists didn't like? Wow, what a deep and insightful movement. I can't see why more people don't support you.

DavidByron2 · 2015-02-08T17:58:56+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement so they disagree with liberal ethical standards including the idea expressed by the phrase 'double standards".

For a hate movement it is just and natural to treat the in group (women) better than the out group (men). the excuse offered is that the in group are decent good people who you can trust whereas everyone knows the out group are nasty, criminal, dirty disgusting and violent people that are always up to no good. therefore the same action taken by a good person should obviously be treated entirely differently because of the context of who did it.

This attitude is the opposite of liberal moral values and is called having a "double standard" but what people often miss is that for a hate movement having a double standard is kind of the whole idea.

She decided to laughing and told me to deal with it and that this was true equality

Exactly so. Only men are creepy assholes so sexual harassment only is something men do to women. A woman who does the exact same thing is fine.

This quality is a hallmark of hate movements but it is sadly also demonstrated by other groups, most notably it is often a halmark of patriotism (foreigners attack us? its a crime. we attack foreigners? they must have deserved it). In effect feminists believe that women and men are in a war, with men being the evil bad guys, and that is why they must treat men entirely worse than women.

This is how feminists think.

Wargame4life · 2015-02-09T12:16:09+00:00

simple have a "anything you do to my butt i will do to your face" policy, if your feminist friend after being told you don't want to be touched in that way continues, you slap her round the face as hard as you can

2015-02-08T16:11:36+00:00

I would say punch one of them in the face oh wait, that's right you cant. You would get in trouble. Looks like this is an incredibly sexist situation as you would be punished for defending yourself. Look at how society is reinforcing a stereotype of you. Look at how these women are reinforcing a stereotype of you. Anyone who cant see the sexism in this situation is deliberately biased.

Imagine if a woman were assaulted and defended her self, and was told "well your a woman, so its ok." The feminists on /r/askfeminists would freak the fuck out.

I found a couple of posts awhile back where the gender was reversed, and the feminists of the varying pages would only call sexism if it were a woman, and generally would ban/delete posts if it were true sexism against men. Thats not bias /s

EccentricWyvern · 2015-02-08T18:15:36+00:00

Holy shit. I got banned for saying the exact same thing and trying to say how harassment shouldn't be a gendered issue. Apparently I can't bring up my own experiences.

Blutarg · 2015-02-08T18:57:20+00:00

This just goes to show how little feminism really cares about equality. It has a lot of influence on society and could have changed attitudes like this but doesn't bother, in fact doesn't even see a problem. Feminism exists to get women more power, not to make things fair and equal.

JFConz · 2015-02-08T19:17:36+00:00

Typical feminist argument: A man cannot be the victim of harassment or sexism. Further, white people cannot be discriminated against on the basis of their race. Somewhere along the way it started being taught to people that if you are not a minority or if your demographic was historically oppressive, even in this day and age you cannot be a victim in any way, shape, or form. Hooray for equality.

2015-02-09T05:23:42+00:00

Similar situation, but the opposite. I have a flat butt (thank you genes) and male and got made fun of in High School to early college as a busser and later server at a restaurant. The girls at the hostess stands made fun on me, and I said, "what would it feel like if I made fun of girls with flat chests?" They got very quite after that (sexual harassment is a little more serious in the work place though and restaurants are little high school microcosms).

Clockw0rk · 2015-02-08T16:24:11+00:00

According to the numerous workplace harassment videos I've had to sit through over the years as part of compliance and on-boarding:

Any unwatched touch can be considered harassment, and repeat offenses are definitely harassment.
Any action that makes you uncomfortable and has sexual motivations, could be considered sexual harassment.

You've basically said that you have a big sexy butt. Okay. People keep slapping your big sexy butt. That's not cool.

With harassment policies the way they are, you could think that you have big sexy shoulders, and people touching your big sexy shoulders makes you uncomfortable. That would could as sexual harassment, because it's up to the victim's interpretation of the interaction.

Call it "third wave feminism" if you will, but it's not a minority of feminists that pretend you can't harass men because men have greater representation in X field.

What you experienced was definitely harassment, sexual harassment at that. Women making excuses about it not counting for men? That's some sexist bullshit.

atheist4thecause · 2015-02-08T16:48:53+00:00

It's absolutely wrong of women doing this and a double standard. The feminist who told you to deal with it because that's equality was being ridiculous, because I assume she doesn't stand for everybody to just be able to smack each other's butts. Society should not allow everybody to go around smacking everybody's butt. This actually relates to sports culture quite strongly, but that's a side note.

About how you were told that you don't feel threatened because you are a man, that is inherently sexist. Maybe you don't feel threatened, but some men absolutely do. Some men don't stick up for themselves because they fear that women will say their gay, they'll tell their female friends, or they'll tell males to humiliate them, etc.

Also on the feeling threatened comment, I would say that the bigger problem is feeling violated, not threatened. Women often talk about feeling violated when a man smacks their butt without permission, and it's often explained as a sense of entitlement to their body. It sounds to me like you feel violated, if not always with these butt slaps, at least some of the time. This is a double standard that is unacceptable.

Mylon · 2015-02-08T16:50:43+00:00

I think we need a picture of this ass. For, um, science.

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2015-02-08T16:22:52+00:00

What you're seeing from feminists a combination of things. They're a gynocentric movement, meaning that they operate from a position that presumes women's experiences and women's welfare to be more important than those of men. They've also created an ideological narrative which they can use to excuse their bigotry.

In other words, it's not that it isn't as sexist for them to act entitled to your ass as it would be for you to act as entitled to theirs, but that they're so sexist that they're blind to the way their own behaviors exhibit the same tendencies they attribute to and criticize in men.

DavidByron2 · 2015-02-08T17:50:36+00:00

Mind you I was banned from r/feminism and r/askfeminists for this post

We knew that just from the title :)

hoorayforbrains · 2015-02-09T02:40:40+00:00

I'm a feminist and I think this is sexist and you're completely right. There are idiots and extremists in all camps. #notallfeminists

Ithinknotttt · 2015-02-09T04:12:46+00:00

Look op, many women ignore the fact that things they do are sexist and the feminist community is ever so willing to ignore them as well and even use the label feminism as a shield to hide behind. Women are just as awful as men. The real difference is that men often handle their own affairs while women run straight to authority because they believe they either A can't handle it on their own or B are paranoid. Women are taught weakness from many people at a young age. This is a common cultural thing, obviously not all, but this is vast and encompassing.

Women have violated me plenty of times, but involving authorities is 99% of the time a major over reaction. Women feel more threatened by men than each other where as men usually feel threatened by almost no one because of this more "handle your own problems" type of mentality.

Shironekosama404 · 2015-02-09T05:25:54+00:00

You were sexual harassed. This is wrong period. Sexiest? Yes because dollars to donuts i swear if the genders were reversed i promise you things would be a different story.

AutoModerator · 2015-02-09T06:00:26+00:00

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BrunoShin · 2015-02-08T17:22:20+00:00

Most men don't suffer harassment in the same way as women, and when they do they are normally able to deal with it much better than the usual feminist. Call it sexism against men if you will, but men are normally just that awesome. And if women can normally get away with being completelly imature in this aspect the solution for true equality is not to make men entitled to the same kind of immaturity. That's what feminists react against. That being said, of course you are not oblidged to answer politely or creativelly when a woman harasses you, but it is a good thing that men are normally able to do so, and that should be preserved. Women being vocal about sexual interests is also something that I think should be stimulated.

rocelot7 · 2015-02-08T19:14:04+00:00

Maybe its problem for people with great round asses, male or female?

haharae · 2015-02-08T20:09:22+00:00

Wait, so their opinion is that it's not the same because you don't FEEL threatened? By their logic, then, sexism is about feeling threatened. You should tell them that you feel threatened by their words. If they continue talking, it's sexist.

Oh, wait, what they really meant is that you're a man, so they can't possibly be sexist against you, so that wouldn't work.

ExpendableOne · 2015-02-09T00:15:00+00:00

I've tried telling them to stop but it doesn't work, they laugh at me and tell me its not the same because I'm a man and its not like I feel threatened.

So basically, the reasoning here is that slapping a woman's ass is wrong but only because of her "entirely justifiable" androphobia and/or disdain for male heterosexuality? Sorry but that doesn't cut it for me. That's like saying "white people slapping my ass is fine but it would be different if it was black people because black people make me uncomfortable and scare me". No. Find better reasoning. It's either right or wrong for everyone.

Once it was a feminist, when I brought it up to her and told her it was sexist. She laughed and told me to deal with it and that this was true equality

Hypocritical shit like this is why feminism is such a failure to equality in the first place. Either she believes you have a right to slap any woman's ass, including hers, or she isn't allowed to slap anyone's ass. If it's the former, she should still be aware of general sexual harassment laws that exist despite her feelings on the matter and respect those laws. She should also be making a point to oppose the rest of the feminist movement, which would wholeheartedly oppose her on that issue as well(unless she's just picking and choosing which issues she's a "feminist" about).

And, that's kind of the larger problem here. People make a big deal out of slapping a woman's ass without her consent because women are the protect gender. Always have been. It's something that no feminist would do anything about because, in their minds, women are oppressed by men. For all this talk about women not having any rights to their own bodies, there's a pretty huge disconnect with the reality of it all when you consider how few rights men actually have to their own bodies(that's including circumcision, physical abuse, unconsented violence, sexual touching, reproductive rights, etc).

MRSPArchiver · 2015-02-08T12:54:02+00:00

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6degreestoBillMurray · 2015-02-08T20:07:44+00:00

Feminists usually say things like

racism/sexism/ablism/whateverism = power + privilege

Therefore, in their minds, women cannot be sexist toward men because men are privileged and are part of the patriarchy, and therefore have all the power. So sexism directed at men don't real, according to feminists.

Whether or not that's true, there's something called "not being an asshole" which is what the women you mention have failed to do. They've decided that because you're a representative of the patriarchy, and whatever they do cannot possibly be sexist, and they feel like they need to get back at someone because of the 'oppression' they feel, then your consent doesn't matter. Which sucks. A lot.

You're entitled to bodily autonomy no matter what gender you happen to be. I'm sorry that not everyone thinks the same way.

Apotheosis275 · 2015-02-08T21:16:13+00:00

[deleted]

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analfanatic · 2015-02-08T16:17:40+00:00

Looked to me like they were mostly agreeing that it wasn't sexist, but that it was sexual harassment and that it was a bad thing. It was actually a much more reasonable response than I expected.

Edit: A letter

faininghope · 2015-02-08T18:03:11+00:00

It's not a feminist issue, which is why it was deleted. Sorry to burst your bubble of delusion.

As to your ass, I'm sorry people overstep that boundary. Nobody should have to experience sexual harassment.

Edit: Fuck all you whiny cunts.

Title	Posted to r/askfeminists, now I want your opinion.
Author	faininghope
Upvotes	101
Comments	72
Date	February 8, 2015 12:53 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2v6sa1/posted_to_raskfeminists_now_i_want_your_opinion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/posted-to-raskfeminists-now-i-want-your-opinion.988566 https://theredarchive.com/post/988566

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