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I regret my post so let me explain

August 19, 2022
6 upvotes

So I regret making posts in this subreddit and purple pill around the topic of hook up culture. It was too rash an I didn't get to flush out my idea and I got strawmanned. So I want to try again

So let me explain what I think. I think hook up culture will not exist in a hypothetical better world I thought up. By eliminating poverty, reducing crime, increase free time, changing marriage from an economic contract to a solely a union of love, coupling sex and romance in media, teach relationship and emotional regulation skills, abolish porn (current porn industry and how porn is depicted) I think hook up culture would either wither away completely or it's pressure will be greatly reduced. I am not advocating for slut shaming or telling people in this generation to stop.

This is what I think will happen if the world goes this direction. I apologize for those crass posts I posted before they were too sudden and not well thought out but I hope this fills in the gap

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Post Information
Title I regret my post so let me explain
Author gardenfan167
Upvotes 6
Comments 46
Date August 19, 2022 2:46 AM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/i-regret-my-post-so-let-me-explain.1139660
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139660
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/ws2g1u/i_regret_my_post_so_let_me_explain/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]kokorwqac 6 points7 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I do also dislike hook up culture myself, but i feel like women are blamed too much for it and men were the ones who played a part in normalizing it through media and escorts

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Women are blamed too much for it, I hate the gender double standard and the blame of women. I agree men did play a big part in this as well.

[–]HodgekinWhitePill 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women are the gatekeeper to sex. That's why the blame/responsibility is put at the feet of women. Outside of rape, women in general control access to sex.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They are seen as gate keepers of sex but I don't think that's true. The balme should be put on social norms.

[–]HodgekinWhitePill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So my stance in life is that individuals should be held responsible as much as possible.

You have two reasons listed here in this conversation.

  1. social norms (outside forces)
  2. Women as gatekeepers (internal)

They are seen as gate keepers of sex but I don't think that's true.

You may dismiss my reason. That's fine.

I actually agree that your reason is valid, but I don't agree we should put the blame on social norms. Here's why.

Think deeply about this. If you claim that the reason hookup culture exist is because of outside forces, what you're essentially saying, is that women do not have free will. That humans are controllable from the outside, and they have no innate responsiblity to what happens to them.

My world view, is that humans have free will. They have the free will to accept the outside forces, and they have the free will to engage in the hook up culture.

This is why, I can accept the premise that women are the gatekeepers, because I accept that women have agency in their actions.

I can sympathize with your argument to the extent that social norms plays a role in shaping people behaviors, but at the end of the day, it's the individual who decides if they will partake in said behavior.

Also, I don't encourage men to engage in hook up culture either. I advise people to seek a stable a monogamous relationship and build a loving family. This is a great example of me as a person, having free will, and decided to go against the cultural norm and social pressures to conform. Everyone was against my life decisions, but I did it anyways. Now all the critics are silent and some came around to praise what I've accomplished.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How exactly is hookup culture not entirely fueled and kept alive without female participation? Women are the ones who determine is sex happens or not and whether or not she is going to fuck a guy without the expectation of a relationship anywhere on the horizon. So yea, if hookup culture exists it is because women gladly participate and promote it.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

How exactly is hookup culture not entirely fueled and kept alive without female participation? Women are the ones who determine is sex happens or not

This is crazy. Pink Pill: Men are the limiting factor.

  • Men have imposed immense pressure one women to have sex between date 1-3. Many of those hookups are just date 1 pump and dumps. Not all

  • There is a pay off to being pump and dumped by Chad that doesnt exist below, say, Chad lite. This is a pay off to a select group of women. Most of u are not interested in women who dont see it that way

  • Men have removed most incentives related to becoming a wife and mother. They celebrate, thirst, and financially reward women for sex in the short term

  • Men ignore all the women who are virgins or celibate and some even get punitive and hateful because those women refuse to hookup.

  • Why is female sexuality never a factor in these discussions of condemnation? You act like women dont get horny or dont want to feel wanted like you. Do you know how sweet and attentive men motivated by getting sex behave to women they find cute enough? Women arent sociopaths bred to distrust kindness from men. Trusting and eager to please women think this is an exercise in romance and connection. They think if they do it according to men's terms, men will be aggreeable to them in return. Most times, they arent

  • Same people who mock women for being "stupid" and should have known she would have been used for sex ALSO hate female groups that warn against trusting men and casual sex. They get the home base advantage because internalized misogyny is a sonofabitch and it usually takes some trauma pink pilling a woman against her will to truly change positions

Men are the limiting factor. We all grow up being taught to defer to men. Before we even get to true adulthood, women are pressured to please men for favorable results. This gets abused

Now that informatiom flows more freely, risks are usually taken by women to decrease the downside. The tactics used to do this piss men off

Everything you see is a reaction and adaptation to the male sex bc ultimately, the male sex has enough members to inflict material harm. These patterns become new social norms.

You are scapegoating women.

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

In every single point you blame men when every single one of those situations has a woman making a fucking choice - willingly. No one blackmails these chicks, they participate in it and then stand around complaining how men pressured her into sex.

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

In every single point you blame men when every single one of those situations has a woman making a fucking choice

Yes. I do blame men

If "men are the limiting factor" wasn't clear enough for u

Men have the power

Men have, and exercise, their physical force and influence as a class

Ergo, women are limited to reacting within that power

Since that power controls social norms, personal safety, and the implications a woman may benefit or suffer, I am telling you that the female sex is a reaction to the male sex. Not the other way around

You are hyperfocused on certain women and completelty ignorant of women at large. You hate being in the part of party of blame.

But you are.

Men incentivize hookup culture, OF, and defensive dating.

They DISINCENTIVIZE the dating they say the want

Even saying "not all men" and "choose better men" puts the onus on women to limit risks based on FEMALE IMPERATIVE especially since most of u dont think about it whereas most women are groomed to consider male imperative at all times

Dont get mad at me because the facts and your misogyny controlled ego dont align

Everyone does whats best for them. Males have the most power so everything you see is the female sex attempting to meet its imperative within what the environment the male sex creates. Men are the limiting factor. Take it up with mother nature

Or be more considerate of the needs of women for better results.

[–]Taipanshimshon 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women get Asked for sex.

Asked.

Blaming men is like blaming McDonald's for your food choices.

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

And women are supposedly the blame for answering to men's desires?

[–]Taipanshimshon 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are women responsible for anything they do or nah ?

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They are, however we're in a pill place, %90 of the posts are about whining women already so i'm pointing out something different.

[–]RStonePTRedPill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Blame is the thing that women and children look for. I find it better to frame it as choices and concequences of our actions.

Then it's not about establishing who is a victim and who is a perpetrator, instead it's just adults doing adult things

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I will say it unapologetically: hookup culture is trash and it really, really hurts men. Anyone who disagrees needs to go back to basic economics and study supply and demand. Sex is the supply and men are raising the demand to the moon and stars and beyond. No wonder women's standards are out of control. Look in history what happens when there's not enough demand for women - the end of World War I, women were crying about dying alone. World War II, the average height of a married man declined by centimeters. Japan is overrun by effectively asexual men, well guess what, there's more openly operating male escort bars in Tokyo alone than the rest of the world combined, all serving thirsty and deprived women.

Female privilege is powered by thirsty men and thirsty men are driven by hookup culture.

Come at me, bros!

[–]rurunoa 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i think hookup culture also tremendously hurts women. The only true winner in hookup culture is chad for a lack of better word

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes that is true.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yep and im not gonna compete in the rat race with millions of chads and betabuckers to get something as simple as sex. so be it

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Japanese male escorts are hot, i like east asian guys in general tbh

[–]rurunoa 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i commented on your other post before. now i want to say i completely 100% agree with this one ESPECIALLY this part

changing marriage from an economic contract to a solely a union of love, coupling sex and romance in media, teach relationship and emotional regulation skills, abolish porn (current porn industry and how porn is depicted)

this would also prevent men from suffering financial losses through divorce. If you think about it, the fact that marriage is an economic contract just really shows that sex and commitment are viewed as transactional

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you!

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It will not work. Hookup culture is the result of the sexual revolution and female choice. So unless you want to get rid of those 2 things, hookup culture is not going anywhere, my friend. It is basically a casual return to hypergamous/polyamorous societies, which is what we naturally engaged in for the longest time in human history.

So by advocating for the elimination of hookup culture, you are by extension advocating for "enforced monogamy". That's a big NO-NO. A lot of guys in the Redpill community on YouTube have been cancelled for advocating for a return to that, Jordan Peterson almost being one.

[–]ManWazoA poly Chad -2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Hookup culture doesnt exist. Its just a term the boomers have invented to slutshame free women.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any evidence for that claim?

[–]litgas 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

They don't.

[–]ManWazoA poly Chad 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I dont and cant, because like God and other fictionnal stuff I cant prove that they dont exist.

[–]litgas 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

So don't make claims that don't exist. Hookup culture exist and its not a term coined by baby boomers to shame women. There's no such thing as free women.

[–]IHateNormis 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hook up culture will exist as long as there are Chads

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how hookup culture can stop. The natural course of events over history is for humans to gain more freedom and rights. With that comes the right to have as much sex with whoever you want, in whatever context you want (as long as the other person agrees to it).

The genie is out of the bottle and by preventing casual sex, you'd basically be regressing people's rights and liberties. You would face huge resistance, largely from women. The only way I can see it stopping is some sort of government regulation, like 1920's prohibition in America, but that would be extremely difficult to enforce.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I got some questions though if you don't mind me asking. How do you know freedom and rights caused hook up culture can you demonstratively prove that. Just because people poses an ability to do something doesn't mean they will act upon it. I have a right to sky dive and I don't do it. I have right to drink alcohol but I don't do it.

I disagree that we need to oppress people's right inorder for hook up culture to decrease. Like me for example I was not slut shamed or not even told not to have casual sex ever. But I didn't engage in casual sex. There is a Christian women in purple pill debate subreddit who said she wasn't slut shamed at all but wants to keep her virginity until marriage.

[–]BumblingBeta 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well it was mainly advancements in birth control + breakdown of religion as science has explained the origins of life + a move towards a more liberal society where people believe they should be able to do what they want, as long as it doesn't harm others. Yeah you don't have to act on that desire, but it seems like most people do, because they are animals who can't control their desire to have sex and feel like they are missing out by not having it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Science is descriptive and not prescriptive. But science does say sex produces oxytocin while having intercourse which is responsible for bonding behavior. It's not religious to associate sex with love my guy. We associate kissing with romance. We don't have to be biological reductionist even in secular countries. How do you know people are like animals who cannot control their sexual desire? I met people on nofap who can control their sexual impulses by practicing discipline, we are animals who cannot control ourselves we have capabilities to do so. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/self-control I think the fear of missing out can be managed without giving into it https://www.verywellmind.com/how-to-cope-with-fomo-4174664#:~:text=A%20Word%20From%20Verywell,different%20times%20in%20their%20lives.

[–]BumblingBeta 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think we're perhaps discussing 2 different things. I thought you were talking about legislating against casual sex or making it socially unacceptable. Which I can't see ever happening because you're taking away people's freedoms to do what they want with their own life - that would be regressive and a form of control.

You are actually discussing the mechanism behind sex and pair bonding. Specifically female bonding because that's not how it works in men. Men are designed to feel somewhat disgusted by the woman after sex and want to have sex with another woman. Women generally pair bond with sex, and for most women they do something called serial monogamy - bond intensely with one man for a short period of time (maybe 1 month, up to 2 years), then get bored and move to the next man. With enough partners, that pair bonding disappears, which is why high divorce rates are seen in women who had lots of partners.

But anyway, what are you trying to say? Do you want casual sex to become socially unacceptable? Do you want casual sex to be illegal? Do you think casual sex is against human nature? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[–]plaguedoctor_21 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think that will work. People will still do the impossible to get their hands on porn just think of other countries with strict regulations. Even the most religious or "proper" people will go their way to finds stuff. It kinda reminds me how some religious people say porn isn't haram, to justify it. Or how some teachers/ school officials fire or suspend people at seeing a student or another school officials on only fans. It's like something in their heads telling them to do something they shouldn't. They are like lured to it more. For instance China has a shit ton of regulations on internet, but I know many who found their way around that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you read what I said, porn isn't sexual imaginary that's not how I am defining it. Porn is exploiting women and depicting male gaze sex scenes

[–]KirthWGersen 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Hookup culture" is just another word for what men and women have naturally done throughout history. When they meet people they are attracted to, if they can do it without social consequences, they will.

If you read literature going back anywhere from a hundred years ago to 3000 years ago, you will see that nothing has changed. Sure, in many cultures, marriage was expected of people; but sex outside marriage was rampant. For a woman, once you were married, and there were no DNA tests, it was safe to have sex with other men. Obviously, some men would lose their shit and beat/kill their wives; but plenty of men do that to women they are not even living with or married to.

The sex drive is an extremely powerful force. No-one can stop it happening any more than Cnut could turn back the waves.

All you can do is carve out a life for yourself in the way you like best, and enjoy each stage in it while it lasts.

You can't abolish porn. The biggest growth in porn in England, ever, was during Victorian times. Rates of prostitution were also through the roof. You can establish a hypocritical, respectable veneer, but humans are humans. Even the most vicious of dictatorships have never managed to control human sexuality; they merely make people better at hiding it, while perversely encouraging it by making it more exciting.

Some people are less attractive than others. They feel envious and bitter. Ultimately they are making themselves unhappy.

Simply improve yourself to get the life you want, or stop complaining and enjoy the life you have.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well do you have peer reviewed studies to back up your claims? I mean sex drive can be disaplined, people use that argument to justify rape btw. https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-decrease-libido https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25559501/ https://www.goodrx.com/health-topic/sexual-health/habits-that-lower-libido

I find these articles very interesting as they show humans have power to control their libido.

People have right to complain if me complaining bothers you than why comment in this post, you could have just left but you took your time to comment why?

[–]KirthWGersen 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are not going to get anywhere with peer-reviewed papers. Their evidentiary power is extremely limited. Those you provided don't say what you think they do, so I can't expect to consider any others carefully.

The whole premise of pairbonding in humans is false. They pair up, but they don't pairbond.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again you have no evidence to back your claim no sources anything. I am not going to believe what you say without substantial evidence. How are peer reviewed studies limited? What's the alternative? Can you elaborate I am not just going to take your word for it

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

As long as there is alpha Chad's,hookup will continue to exist.Some are just biological instict.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You have to prove that there is biological instinct first then you have prove how stable those instincts are

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

More applies to man. Come on haven't you met man who do that?Woman just allows it thinking she will get something.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I only met gay or bi men who do it but with only men. I have not met straight men in life who engage in hook up culture.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope. You’re ignoring the differences between male and female sexual selection strategies.

[–]MarBitt 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So let me explain what I think. I think hook up culture will not exist in a hypothetical better world I thought up. By eliminating poverty, reducing crime, increase free time, changing marriage from an economic contract to a solely a union of love, coupling sex and romance in media, teach relationship and emotional regulation skills, abolish porn (current porn industry and how porn is depicted) I think hook up culture would either wither away completely or it's pressure will be greatly reduced.

This requires not only a hypothetical better world, but hypothetical better people. And if there were better people like that, communism can easily work. Or free love.

But the problem is that we have real people and not hypothetical better people. And whenever someone came up with an ideology that wasn't for real people, but for hypothetical ones, it resulted in those real people having to suffer and die so that those hypothetical, never-existent people would be better off.

It is one of the worst evils when someone prefers his own illusions and dreams to reality and then is willing to destroy reality so that his illusions can live. They will never live, they are just illusions, so the promoters of these religious beliefs, morals and ideologies only harm real people.

You claim it could work. I'm saying that it wouldn't even work as a game, a fantasy world that should feel realistic and have real people playing in it. And that's even if you could set things like poverty and free time there to your liking, in that simulation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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