Red Pill problems solved my femenists

Andro_Polymath · 2023-05-28T19:50:13+00:00

I'm not sure why you're receiving so much backlash to your post? Perhaps it is because people are triggered by the word "feminist," but what you're implying is spot on. To be more specific, traditional gender roles, or more specifically, the idea that men should adhere to traditional masculine gender roles, has been shown to significantly harm men (and women). The more a man feels pressured and chooses to adhere to traditional masculine roles, the worse he does in school, the worse his mental health becomes (even getting so bad that it causes hypertension), the more angry and violent he becomes (which leads to a higher likelihood of crime), the more riskier behavior he's likely to engage in, and so on. This is all documented by scientific evidence.

Sources:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7643809/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7643809/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7643809/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7643809
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7643809 (I love this one, because it showcases how much violence parents visit upon their sons, and how this violence is directly responsible for boys developing more anti-social behaviors than pro-social behaviors, in relation to their gender socialization. Parents must do better!)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7875942/
https://www3.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15599:1-in-5-men-will-not-reach-the-age-of-50-in-the-americas-due-to-issues-relating-to-toxic-masculinity&Itemid=0&lang=en#gsc.tab=0
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-09269-1

Downtown_Cat_1172 · 2023-05-28T22:59:37+00:00

Hypergamy is solved by feminism too. Women don’t need to marry up if they have their own funds.

Fridge_Ian_Dom · 2023-05-28T17:57:01+00:00

A lot of people are happier complaining about things than having them fixed

squirrelscrush · 2023-05-28T17:54:22+00:00

Some of these fallacies are the exact reason I went out of the redpill. Although now I'm working on my now blackpilled mentality, but these things showed to me that maybe this whole redpill thing isn't true, gradually came to know literally most everything is laced with untruths (although it gets some credit for being the startplug of my self-improvement journey).

GlassOfSkimMilf · 2023-05-28T17:53:46+00:00

Red Pill

makes the problem worse.

You did a great job at summing up the current state of Red Pill. 😅 Great work, detective!

spiraldinosaur · 2023-05-29T09:20:52+00:00

Feminism is like communism, Marxism, socialism etc in that the people who complain about it are usually the ones who don't understand it. And so many times I've heard people on here saying "if feminists are so much bout equality why aren't they talking about [xyz]" when in fact, they are.

Also "Feminism" is treated like it's some kind of political party with leaders and a manifest or something rather than just a broad, ever changing concept that is shared and defined differently by almost everyone who uses the term. Like it's some kind of united front with a specific aim and that when one person does something in the name of feminism it represents all feminist people.

I consider myself a feminist, every woman I know considers themselves feminist, and I haven't once felt like my life is negatively impacted because of it. Hell, I'd say one of the main reasons I'm not red pilled or incel or whatever is because I'm a feminist. It's allowed me to have much better, healthier, happier relationships with women, be it loving, loyal relationships or promiscuous sex.

Soft-Neat8117 · 2023-05-29T12:10:09+00:00

The first one is mens suicide rates. Well, when society pressures a men to live up to very narrow gender role that only a minority of males can live up to, of course the suicide rate will be high.Femenists have been saying this for a while. Yet these Red Pill men want to affirm these gender roles even more. This literally makes the problem worse.

What do you expect coming from men who believe that the way to resolve the rampant mass shootings is by giving people more guns? Or that the solutions to the problems with our capitalist economy is to deregulate capitalism even further? It's like they think the solution to putting out a fire is to throw gasoline on it.

When it comes to males dying more in dangerous jobs or in the military. Femenists have advocated for a long time to allow women to be in such jobs because they believe they are just as competent. This will allow it to be more equal. However, red pill men oppose this, too.

Probably because these types of men don't want to compete with women for these jobs. Not to mention that their egos probably can't handle it if a woman can do their job just as well as, or especially better than they can.

Red pill men complain about men having the burden of being the primary breadwinner all the time. They also complain about how women get custody of the child in most cases primarily because the man is the breadwinner. However, when femenists propose that women should also start becoming the breadwinner to ease the burden of men and make custody battles more fair, they somehow don't like that.

Again, "traditional alpha male" ego can't handle women earning as much money as them because it takes away their power of selection and forces them to develop other qualities.

As for child custody, I think men like this have the mentality of "I fucked a woman and passed on my genes, but it her responsibility to raise them." Notice that they complain more about having to pay alimony and child support more often than they do about actual 50-50 custody. As if they don't want to actually invest any money into their child's future. Maybe there's a reason why these men are denied custody and legally forced into supporting their kids, because they sound like deadbeat dads.

Red pills complain about the promiscuity of women but simultaneously complain about men being virgins. Femenits have tried to help decrease the amount of shame women felt from having sex. This would result then in being more promiscuous and having more sex with men. The red pillers believe that mens virginity is a huge problem. Won't the femenists solution theoretically decrease the amount of male virgins? On top of this, they advocate that it is okay for men to sleep around. Yet they complain that women are too promiscuous? In order for their own mentality to be sustainable, the promiscuous women they complain about have to exist.

It's like they somehow expect to sleep with lots of women, but still expect most women to be virgins. Unless men are only having sex with the same minority of women, this isn't possible.

And they probably know deep down that even if the slut-shaming stigma went away, no woman would touch them with a ten foot pole.

Lastly, they also complain about men having to initiate when it comes to dating. Yet when femenists try to help women be more assertive and initiate more, the red pillers dislike that, too.

Because they'd be hit on by women they're not attracted to. Or none at all.

Naus1987 · 2023-05-28T18:53:49+00:00

Lol, absolutely indisputable logic. I love it!

I used to be a proud and vocal feminist. I went to the rallies and protests in the early 2000s.

I eventually dropped out, because the scene became increasingly corrupted by extremists and people who just wanted to be right all the time, even if their message skewed from the source. It was really sad.

I feel like red pill itself, ironically, suffers from a lot of the same problems. Especially the Men going their own path crowd.

They took what could be a gender neutral movement about loving a single life and turned it into something toxic.

—

I still support equality and core feminism. I support people going their own way.

But I do think a lot of these higher ideals are incredibly challenging for average and lower quality people to follow faithfully.

In general, a man would love to see a woman make more money, initiate more, and be more awesome! But that only benefits above average men.

For a man to be approached by a woman, he has to be desirable.

And that’s where feminism feels weird to a lot of guys. They can’t get behind it, because if they’re below average or undesirable, they won’t benefit from those changes in society.

If all people were equal, equality works. But when people are spread across a large degree of desirability, it really skews the effectiveness.

People who sit at the bottom are never going to support equality if they lose out. And that’s a problem.

Women being empowered isn’t going to help the loser men feel wanted.

And as long as there are undesirable men out there, they’ll be toxic.

Feminism can’t make undesirable men into more desirable men. That’s something men have to do for themselves.

They think red pill is the solution, but it’s not. But without an alternative, a lot of men get lost in this trap.

6022141023 · 2023-05-28T19:28:03+00:00

I don't even agree with the red pill, but this is a terrible take and completely misidentifies the core ideology of the red pill. And if you want to criticize the red pill, it is important to first identify their core beliefs. Else, you will be merely hitting at strawmen.

In my understanding, the core ideological claim underlying red pill and black pill ideology is that sexual liberalization has not brought forward more sexual equality but paradoxically more inequality and a strengthening of gender norms. The French novelist Michelle Houllebecq already brought this thesis up long before terms like incel and red pill existed. He claimed that "he sexual revolution of the Sixties created not communism but capitalism in the sexual market, that the unattractive underclass is exiled while the privileged initiates are drained by corruption, sloth, and excess"

In the social sciences, there is the concept of the “gender-equality paradox” based on finding that gender differences in terms of occupation and personality are paradoxically more pronounced in more gender equal societies. One of the core tenets of incel and red pill ideology is that this gender-equality paradox can be extended to the sphere of sexual and romantic relationships. Red and black pillers claim that because women have more choices in today’s society, traditional masculinity is in higher demand than ever before. In consequence, if you want to have success as a man in today’s society, you best display traditional masculinity. In their self-understanding, red pillers are not merely rebelling against a society that scorns masculinity. Instead, red pillers think that society paradoxically (and tacitly) values masculinity more than ever before. Again, I don’t think this is right, but I believe that is fundamentally how red pillers think.

And in view of this core concept, most of your points fall flat because red pillers deny that a more feminist society is a society with less strict gender norms. In fact, I have seen most of your points addressed in my very cursory reading of red pill commentary (including on this sub):

The first one is mens suicide rates. Well, when society pressures a men to live up to very narrow gender role that only a minority of males can live up to, of course the suicide rate will be high.Femenists have been saying this for a while. Yet these Red Pill men want to affirm these gender roles even more. This literally makes the problem worse.

Red pillers believe these gender roles are – tacitly - very much intact. This is the reason why red pillers love stories about men being rejected or left after they slip up in their masculinity, e.g. show insecurity, show vulnerability etc. Red pillers think: “See, even in this society, you are fucked as a man if you don’t constantly perform masculinity”

When it comes to males dying more in dangerous jobs or in the military. Femenists have advocated for a long time to allow women to be in such jobs because they believe they are just as competent. This will allow it to be more equal. However, red pill men oppose this, too.

This is another red pill and right-wing meme. “If women want occupational equality, why isn’t there a push to make more men nurses and more women trash collectors”. So red pillers seem to think that this is simply not happening.

Red pill men complain about men having the burden of being the primary breadwinner all the time. They also complain about how women get custody of the child in most cases primarily because the man is the breadwinner. However, when femenists propose that women should also start becoming the breadwinner to ease the burden of men and make custody battles more fair, they somehow don't like that.

Another big discussion point in red pill spheres. Red pillers claim that high earning women still want a partner who makes more money than them, which prices more men out of the dating market. This is why red pillers emphasize making lots of money. This is in fact a great example of how red pillers think. While they acknowledge social changes (women make more money), they claim that this does not change basic gender dynamics (women prefer someone making more money). Make of that what you will.

Red pills complain about the promiscuity of women but simultaneously complain about men being virgins. Femenits have tried to help decrease the amount of shame women felt from having sex. This would result then in being more promiscuous and having more sex with men. The red pillers believe that mens virginity is a huge problem. Won't the femenists solution theoretically decrease the amount of male virgins? On top of this, they advocate that it is okay for men to sleep around. Yet they complain that women are too promiscuous? In order for their own mentality to be sustainable, the promiscuous women they complain about have to exist.

This is of course a big (the main) talking point for both red and black pillers. Both claim that despite a more liberal social atmosphere towards promiscuity and casual sex, only a certain subset of men actually benefits from it. And in the POV of both red and blackpillers, those men are coded as highly traditionally masculine (a great example is the incels' infatuation with the Chad stereotype). So the core idea here is a again: society has become more sexually liberalized, traditionally masculine men paradoxically win out.

Let's invert the discussion for a minute. Red pillers are a very tiny fraction of society without any significant power. Meanwhile, many of the goals you assign to feminists have been established over the last decades. Why do you think the things you claim would come to pass have not come to pass. For example, why is there a high male suicide rate despite a more permissive conception of gender roles? Why are fewer people having sex despite increased permissiveness towards promiscuity? Something doesn’t add up.

DerZerficker20x5cm · 2023-05-29T10:43:59+00:00

It is not a feminist act to give a man more rights, that is by Definition a mens rights Activist/Red Pill Thing I think there are some movements that try to combine Red Pill and feminism but by Definition its 2 sides of a coin. You clearly use a Definition of feminism that would be desirable but not very Common. A feminist in the most common definition does not really fight for equality but only for womens rights only. The Problem is that a lot of activists Actions in General are not very Well thought out.

vb2509 · 2023-05-29T08:55:28+00:00

Not a redpill fr starters but I wanted to weigh in.

The first one is mens suicide rates. Well, when society pressures a men to live up to very narrow gender role that only a minority of males can live up to, of course the suicide rate will be high.Femenists have been saying this for a while. Yet these Red Pill men want to affirm these gender roles even more. This literally makes the problem worse.

This I have seen in some ways. Some women on reddit and a friend of mine also talked about this.

When it comes to males dying more in dangerous jobs or in the military. Femenists have advocated for a long time to allow women to be in such jobs because they believe they are just as competent. This will allow it to be more equal. However, red pill men oppose this, too.

This I have not seen being advocated anywhere (not saying it's a lie, I just hope they are more vocal about it).

Red pill men complain about men having the burden of being the primary breadwinner all the time. However, when femenists propose that women should also start becoming the breadwinner to ease the burden of men

This afaik is assumed that both partners have to earn these days esp if you have kids.

make custody battles more fair, they somehow don't like that.

I have not heard of this either just like the last one I mentioned.

Overall, I have only heard women talk about ending toxic masculinity and support male mental health but not about hazardous jobs and custody. Would love to see some references on this.

Raging_Dragon_9999 · 2023-05-29T13:53:55+00:00

What feminists get wrong is how much women punish men for adhering to traditional gender roles. Or that men percieve that women will punish them for not adhering to traditional gender roles. One of the many reasons I will never, ever, ever, become a feminist is the adamant belief that men have the hyper agency to fix all their problems on their own, and that women are at least half the problem.

In any given culture, the Men and Women in, deserve each other.

Jelly_Crusade · 2023-05-29T19:34:52+00:00

I've never met a feminist address male suicide head on, they usually brush it aside and say that women attempt suicide at higher rates but with less lethal means.

As for women in the military and dangerous positions, particularly the draft, they generally say there shouldn't be a draft at all, but they somehow only mention men in the draft when it is brought up to them. They never started any conversation of an institutional process that can kill thousands of men against their will.

Men complaining about women earning their own money is just a strawman, no one says that. What they are concerned about his women having a tendency to not date men who make less than them, which is statistically true, and is becoming more of an issue as colleges have started accepting women more than men. The inequality there is so high in fact, that the disparity is as high as it was in the 70s when policies were starting to be made to get more women in higher education. Now suddenly, they have no problem with this gap? It's just as bad as it was, just the other way.

Feminism on paper is the solution to the problem, but "modern feminism" is so picky choosy about what movements they choose to back that to disenfranchised men it doesn't look like much more than a tool to make men feel shit about themselves.

The most feminist woman I know said that men who cry should kill themselves. I took a sexism course at UMass and they said it's impossible for a woman to rape a man.

In college #killallmen stickers were plastered everywhere.

I think your outlook is a little disingenuous, because there are real concerns that men have and just saying "feminists got that covered" doesn't really land when feminists are the creators of the infamous Duluth model. The idea that feminism has mens interests close to their heart as well is just false unfortunately, and bad ideas within feminism deserve to be critiqued.

Independent_Bid_4420 · 2023-06-03T00:31:54+00:00

Men just adhere to the rules set by women unfortunately, feminism is the objection to the rules set by men. Red pill is the observation of the rules set by women. Men are still mostly doing their role, women aren’t, they wanted to change the roles thinking it would make it better, but you can’t break millions of years of evolution.

Feminism teaches men to open up and be more emotional, but when they do it doesn’t fix any of their problems with women because it works against them and not for them , leading them back to red pill. Women mostly are turned off by weaker men so for men that try to open up it’s used against him.

The gender roles are placed on him because that’s what women want, most of the time they don’t even realise it, but it’s inherent in their nature. Women will say they want an open kind and caring man, but will leave because they don’t feel the spark, and never question the fact that they found the person they claimed to want, instead going for the man they thought they didn’t want

In regards to the jobs, most women can’t actually do them jobs, it would slow progress down too much, I can go in deeper to this but it’s a lot to delve into

Feminism wants to break down the ideas of men being the breadwinner, but again women naturally want to date above them, feminists claim to want to be equal, but in reality it’s not the case

All the problems that feminism claims to rectify doesn’t actually work in most cases in reality. In many cases it makes them worse and leads men down darker paths. It’s the right idea, but the wrong way to go about it.

It sounds counter intuitive, and a lot of these things are backwards.

But red pill is a process where men need to learn that the world is a certain way, through this they can protect themselves from harm. Consuming too much redpill can be dangerous also, it needs to be balanced.

Redpill is just the truth in most cases, it’s the unfortunate reality that is placed on men and it’s all based on women’s standards

If feminism truly wanted to help men they could, but most of their ideas are wrong. Instead of fixing problems they push and make them worse

If they truly want to help men

make paternity tests mandatory
balance the court systems to be equal
stop shaming men for being masculine
get rid of words like mansplaining etc
allow men to have their preferences in life
listen to what men want without applying anterior motives to their needs
stop putting all the blame onto men and make women accountable, men keep eachother in line, women do not

Once these problems are fixed then you will see more men coming back to the dating market and fears eased.

Title	Red Pill problems solved my femenists
Author	CompetitivePenalty59
Upvotes	47
Comments	51
Date	May 28, 2023 5:02 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/13u5ff4/red_pill_problems_solved_my_femenists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/red-pill-problems-solved-my-femenists.1220575 https://theredarchive.com/post/1220575

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