someone change my mind?

Xx_SwordWords_xX · 2023-03-04T15:27:35+00:00

This seems like a challenge to debate, and that's not what this forum is.

alexbrove · 2023-03-04T14:38:23+00:00

As with all red pillers, Andrew tate talks a lot of BS and mixes a bit of truth with a bunch of lies. So what are the things that Andrew tate said that you still believe to be true?

imullyn · 2023-03-04T15:32:59+00:00

It does not work in the long run, your mind harbors hatred and negativity all the time, you can try to convince yourself you’re happy but in the end you still have a void in your heart.

Try to put yourself in others shoes and analyze yourself from a 3rd perspective, critique yourself, am I actually right? When you’re listening to advice from a non red-pill are you taking their information or are you “no, I’m right” in your head. I got out because I was overly self aware of my thoughts, I realized I was too arrogant for my own good, a massive hypocrite, and if people like Andrew tate are making millions of people unhappy then there should be a reason other than “they’re haters”

In the end, no one can change your mind other than yourself, the biggest challenge is getting over your ego and absorbing new information that contradicts your pre-existing ones

Naus1987 · 2023-03-04T15:41:46+00:00

The thing about people is that there’s millions of people with millions of different ways of thinking.

Red pill absolutely is true for some people. And it’s absolutely not true for other people.

There are dumb women who chase dumb things and make terrible mistakes. The same thing applies to men.

Just because Andrew tate can prove that dumb people do dumb things doesn’t mean that all of humanity is dumb.

The real question is, why would you want to be like the dumb people when you could aspire to be better.

Another way to look at is, is scamming and thievery work. They’re bad, just like red pill. But statistically, you can be a successful thief and have a wealthy life.

But why choose that path and not another? Tate chose a path of scam artistry and he got busted. Now he’s rotting away.

You have to consider “risk” when making choices. You could embrace red pill and gamble. But be prepared to lose lol.

AceArguments · 2023-03-04T17:17:43+00:00

The Redpill and Andrew Tate espouse the masculine ideal. The masculine ideal is the belief of what makes a man; strength, competence, ambition, self-sufficiency, control (physical & emotional), and leadership.

Here are the tenets that I see most often.

Masculinity is essential to men. Men should live up to the masculine ideal.
Men need to accumulate as much resources as possible in order to attract women. This means becoming skilled enough to be rich so that you are the prize.
Women only want chads that are muscular with defined jaws because of hypergamy.
Women are not capable of love because they are wired through evolution to seek resources. In order to get a woman, you can't be yourself, you have to become the masculine ideal.

In almost every species on this planet, females sexually select males. In most species, the male is the more beautiful sex which is why all the male peacocks are beautiful. Because the females select them based on the traits they like.

In our current society, women do not sexually select men. Men develop traits to compete with other men. The women don't decide. Two guys fight. Whoever is alive at the end is who the woman goes with. This is known as a stag dynamic rather than a peacock. Stags develop antlers not to attract females but to fight other males during mating season. In literature, this is also known as the male monkey dance.

The idea is that male secondary sex characteristics (beards, deep voices, large muscles) did not evolve primarily to attract women. Rather, the main reason men have them is to compete with other men.

Women do not choose masculine traits. If women were sexually selecting traits, there would only ever be beautiful men everywhere. No chiselled jaws just beauty all around.

So why is masculinity important to men?Because they've set it up that way.

Why do men set it up that way?Well actually, the top 20% of men who are at the top set it up that way so they can stay at the top. They created a hierarchy in which they give themselves the gold trophy. Everyone else beneath. Andrew Tate is at the top.

So if the hierarchy of masculinity is a construct created by the top 20% of men so they could remain at the top, why do other men believe and participate in the construct?

Because one day...they could be at the top.

So why do men have to gain resources to attract women if women don't sexually select men in that manner?

Resources are like the antlers of the masculine world. It's to show off. Displays of fat stacks and a Bugatti is a clear sign of who is at the top of the hierarchy to other men. Not to women. Women gravitate towards these men not because of resources but because of the appearance of confidence that these men display. Young women who are inexperienced oftentimes get cockiness and confidence mixed up. It takes a lifetime of learning to see who is the faker.

Well, hypergamy still exists and these women are attracted to the top men anyways because of hypergamy.

Hypergamy is a consequence of removing freedom from women to work and making it so that their only means of acquiring an income is through a man. The first conception of it was in Kulinism. In Hinduism, caste and marriage rules are said to have been introduced by Raja Vallala Sena of Bengal (reigned 1158–69)The name derives from the Sanskrit word kulina (“of good family”). Hypergamy (marrying a bride of a lower caste) was allowed for the top three castes.

This is common in countries like India where they have a caste system. In most western countries, there is no caste system. Women have the means to work and make their own money. They also have rights that allow them to own their own bank accounts and property so they do not need to rely on a man.

Hypergamy was a historical cultural construct. Internationally, any semblance of hypergamy is on the decline as women are acquiring more human rights and going into occupations once held by men. This trend is what every nation is moving towards. Away from hypergamy and into hypogamy.

But wait. There's still physical hypergamy in which women only want chads with muscles, abs, and chiseled jaws.

Again. Women don't sexually select men in human society. Men sexually select women.

Results from structural equation models and selection analyses revealed that physical dominance, but not sexual attractiveness, predicted mating success. Physical dominance mediated associations of upper body size, physical strength, as well as vocal and facial physical dominance and attractiveness with mating success. These findings thus suggest a greater importance of intrasexual competition than female choice in human male sexual selection. - Science Direct

As a matter of fact. Males have predominantly been the sexual selectors throughout history. When war happened, the survival of a woman was based on her beauty. The more beautiful woman was taken as a concubine/slave and the uglier one was killed. So every woman that exists today was a descendant of the slightly more attractive woman captured during a war.

This selection process has compounded over time that the discrepancy between the attractiveness of an average female and an average male is not even comparable. As in women are so much more attractive than their male partners that you can't compare them on the same scale. Evolution is literally making women on average more beautiful than men. Even when looking at children, we see that girls are more beautiful than boys. And this pattern is progressing into the future.

Well, women wear makeup.

Makeup doesn't change bone structures, fat distribution, or physical inheritable features.

This difference in average attractiveness has caused a lot of fury among men. There was a tinder statistic that stated that 80% of men were unattractive to women. Which is true if you compare men and women's attractiveness on the same scale. If the average woman on a scale of 1(ugly) -10 (hot) is a five. Then you cannot say that the average man will be a five on that same scale. Because women are more attractive in general, the average man on that same scale would be a 3.5 at best.

Because women are more attractive in general it would actually make more sense to compare male attractiveness against other males rather than females. So on the male attractiveness scale, the average would indeed be 3.5. On the female scale, men are clearly not going to measure up.

So how are women going after chads if they are not even sexually selecting for traits in men and have rarely been in positions to do so throughout history?

But women still choose men with resources over men without.

Yes and this is on the decline because more women are acquiring their own resources. There are women who are the breadwinners of their own families right now. There are not many but progressing into the future, it's going to change. Just as hypergamy is on a decline going forward into the future.

The Redpill highlighted traits that were not selected by women and therefore irrelevant to getting a woman. Andrew Tate espouses masculine ideals that only make you attractive to other men and not women.

ParisTexas7 · 2023-03-04T14:55:45+00:00

OP — how old are you?

Andrew Tate is a scam artist, literally. He makes money off of pyramid schemes. He’s not trying to help you.

Even if your goal is just to hook up with a bunch of girls, there are plenty of other “self-help” gurus that are FAR less toxic and who can give you social skills advice.

If your goal is to have long term relationship / marriage, then Andrew Tate’s advice is about as bad as it gets. It’s the most cringe shit ever and extremely counterproductive to your goal.

If you have specific gripes you want to grapple with, let me know.

not-halsey · 2023-03-04T19:20:44+00:00

All these “alpha male” gurus are trying to sell you something. End of discussion. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of them have good self improvement advice, and even some stuff that will help you understand women a bit better. Beyond that, especially in the PUA realm, these guys have no clue what they’re talking about. I had more success before I knew any pua stuff. And I have more success now just being myself rather than trying to follow some script. I believe you can learn something from them, but take it all with a grain of salt and use your intuition. And just be yourself. Don’t put on an act to pick up a woman. Women can smell that a mile away.

OpalMagnus · 2023-03-04T19:52:58+00:00

Here’s the thing: the redpill movement is right if you believe that the world is a marketplace where we all essentially have to invest in ourselves according to the general consumer’s wants and needs and obtain maximum “profits” in the form of sexual encounters.

If that belief gives you purpose and fulfills you, I can’t change your mind. Personally, I don’t take pleasure in marketing myself or “investing” in only the parts that will make me attractive to some potential customer. I am not a product and I don’t need to “buy” whatever society tells me the best version of a man is. And if I was a man, I certainly wouldn’t want my life to be defined by my kill count.

vb2509 · 2023-03-04T20:46:15+00:00

Dunno if this will help you but from what I have gathered, believeing what he has to say means you are walking on eggshells for receiving the love, attention, affection, etc which will be REALLY stressful in the long run. He has mixed facts with his own crap to tell you a very convincing story.

Maybe take a break from the internet and go out and see couples in real life as a starting point. Some fresh air might do you good too. Take care.

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WWhiMM · 2023-03-05T01:22:54+00:00

Why would you want to change your mind, to believe "redpill / andrew tate" is wrong?
If you're sure that a belief is true and guides you to be a good person, then you should believe it. What do you think there is about redpill that is not so good?

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-03-05T04:04:21+00:00

For me to change your mind I need to know what specifically you believe. Do you have something that you'd like me to address?

AMagicMan55 · 2023-03-05T14:08:34+00:00

Tate's a wanker who gets his inflated ego off on young men worshiping him for abusing women. Not a great role model, is he? His fan base is very suspect as well. His image isn't about attracting women, it's about attracting dumb male jealousy. His head is stuck in middle school mode while his pimp ass is now stuck in prison. What a success story!

waffleznstuff30 · 2023-03-05T17:30:43+00:00

Andrew Tate/Fresh n Fit/Sneako

They make content about how to be more appealing to men by men and for men. It's not at all about appealing to women. It's how to be masculine enough to be seen as masculine for other men.

These dudes harp on about "beta" men but "beta" men have a partner usually. So who actually wins the chest beating alpha bro or the guy who is kind and respectful and treats his partner like a person and not a possession. That dude got a woman and didn't have to do the performative bullshit the red pill teaches. He just had to be a decent guy. Its less exciting and won't get you paid to peddle nonsense.

The red pill teaches men to acquire women like things commodities because God forbid you treat them as an equal or a person with shared human experience that would fly out the window. Sexual market place, sexual market value, high value low value you get the point. Never once does it talk about them as people. Just on things like sex or submissive or being less of a burden on them. So they can continue to appeal to other men by being the manliest man in mansville. It's absolute lunacy to take any of the advice to heart. Because it's not about being appealing to women or appealing to women it's about appealing as man enough for other men.

That's the big issue with Tate and others of his brand. Is sure there are ideas that appeal to men and struggling men. But it's performative bullshit for men to appeal to other men. It just validates a preconceived bias that women and women demanding better is what hurts you as a man. That instead of a paycheck you have to offer support, love, and emotional intimacy too. And that's just so wrong?

Saitama1shots · 2023-03-08T00:21:27+00:00

You don’t have to agree with everything to thinks he’s wrong/right he says a lot of truth and some false bs but his message is a net positive. Besides redpill≠Andrew Tate, Andrew doesn’t like redpill himself he believes in traditional family values which is something rp doesn’t talk about. Redpill just wants to have sex with as much women as possible, Andrew on the other hand tells you to respect women, treat them like queens, and raise a healthy lovely family

Title	someone change my mind?
Author	imNativ_
Upvotes	1
Comments	145
Date	March 4, 2023 2:19 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/11i092k/someone_change_my_mind/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/someone-change-my-mind.1154511 https://theredarchive.com/post/1154511

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