What does "dread game" mean and what does it do to the relationship and other person?

NakedNyx · 2022-07-18T12:29:23+00:00

I was just curious since it doesn't seem to get talked about a lot here and is arguably one of the more damaging aspects of being Red Pilled....

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Hi there! I'm not sure where you're getting these ratios from but, for the UK, 1 in 5 adults experience domestic abuse during their lifetime. This equates to: 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6-7 men, according to: https://www.ncdv.org.uk/domestic-abuse-statistics-uk/#:~:text=1%20in%205,1%20in%206%2D7%20men. Soo it's not really a minority of men or women, it's fairly common in both genders

How do you know that more women are manipulative/exhibit sexual violence? If it's just something you've been told and accepted as true then maybe you're the one being manipulated...

"anti-women rhetoric is so pervasive online that it's normalised.

"In this climate, groups have emerged spouting dangerous ideologies, including women being evil

"It's important to say that this is not about maligning or accusing teenage boys. Many of these boys are very, very vulnerable. And these online communities are extremely adept and clever at preying on them," she says."

Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-03/misogyny-anti-women-terrorism-extremist-groups-online/100031678

I.e. talking about pickup artistry like a viable way to live your life exposes you as a vulnerable teenage boy. Read some books. Do some travelling.

[–]ErikaJeanKruger 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Abused people abuse people if they don't get help.

Go look up the stats of men who seek mental health treatment for the abuse they receive, and why.

I think it is really good that we highlight that men face domestic abuse, most often Esp. in childhood, which is extremely formative to one's way of interacting with others in the future.

We know why men hurt other people, and stoicism and the misshapen sense of masculinity is the reason.

It is the same reason why many women are mal-adjusted as well. If you do not get help if you have been abused, you will react to everything in the way the abuse taught you to react, and it is unhealthy.

A huge part of red pill is not getting professional help, and it shows in the numbers.

Just wanted to add that to your post since it was so thorough about the prevalence of domestic abuse for men. Maybe some guys will see this and it clicks that they need help or they are going to end up on the other end of the statistic.

If you have been abused as a man or woman, you need therapy, as you are likely to harm others if you do not, whether intentionally or not.

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( looks up MarriedRedPill oh god is this a collective manifestio like dreadgame there 3yo daughter wtf) Okay let break this down nutshell. Let go back. Girls often choose manipulation to bully other women. While it more common for boy choose physical violence as form bullying. This just chalked down to what bullies strength was physical? Social? Intelligence. Abusive people make small percentage of single male and females out there. They not majority of either sex. Men dont normally hit, women dont normally manipulate. But you ask? Why have all women i dated like that. Well alot men i dated were abusive, 3 different types. Why me? Was question i had for the longest time. Till i realise i was wicker stick. I attract people like that. Personally im all f up from childhood trauma. Redpill is manipulative game that attracts people like me, that been so interally programmed they cant see red flags anymore. Normal women that you could fairly health relationship with are going to see a red flag and avoid you like the plague. The you have women that mast manipulators, that fuck over so hard for doing it. Its like playing chess with master and your newbe. Whether they bullied, were bullying or watch other bully women are so much more familar with manipulation games. Were not dumb. So people who experience trauma. Usually have 2 main response, flight or fight. Women with fight response are already have trust issues so they avoid you like plauge also. Which leads to flight response like me. I came very backwards fucked family. I thought violence was normal. Hide in cabinets when i get arguments and shut down because expect other person to start shattering shit. Most childhood was mutism. And i after series physically abusive relationships, i thought met the right guy. Slowly pulled in by some sense normacy to point i was on one most complicated 7yr ( 4yrs intricated planned out ) masternind psychopathic plots i have ever seen. 6 sucide attempts 2 years of anorexia, pstd, 3 assualts, perament heart damage if love some you dont fuck head so much they want kill themselves. He started out with just regualar mild manipulative bullshit, then got into sexual abuse, when none of bullshit understand of how my brain works, didnt work. He say there no better then me, try dig the insecurities, till i grew spine said no. Brokeup him. Then he turned full revenge plot, involving rape, a kid, 2 years of complete isolation from friends, family , no phone no computer, no leaving the house. But his tacks stopped working he could figure out why. At some point i snapped out whatever fucked up psedou stockhome syndrome traun he was trying get me on, and he tried to kill me. The only reason im still alive. Is pure unfiltered bloodlust. I want to kill him. I look at my kid everyday and gives the only reason not shoot in fucking head. Im so fucked idc if go to hell because trust me heaven would still feel like hell with all my memories. Fuck morals. Fuck forgiveness. I was forgiving person and used as an excuse to hurt me. I want him dead. But thats illegal. So im going sit here and rot till my rage consumes me, my husband cant save me, i tired moving on but he add fire to already filled childhood with repressed anger. He made me a monster going down his redpill shithole. Dont be dr franstein just because bad apples. Meet someone normal. Live happy life, move on. Do it the right away. Half the people the subreddit are lying about being married. My grandparents married at 20 and died at 96. Thats 66 years. I asked my grandma her secret , she said 3 phrase make any realtionship work and have to mean them and say them often. I love you, i apperiacte you, and im sorry. If you looking down the redpill rabbit hole its because you most like have fears of abandonment urself. It wont help feeding into thoose fears. Be healthy.

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Eh that's not really what I mean. People who have gone through abusive situations, especially I their formative years, can subconsciously find red flags as green, or at least beige.

TRP conditions men to see red flags as beige by repeating myths of hypergamy, branch swinging, "frame testing" etc as normal female behavior when in reality that's normal behavior for really emotionally unhealthy people. However if that's what you learn to expect via TRP or other sources like an abusive parental relationship then you will accept those behaviors in partners because of course they did that it's normal.

Just look at the guy I replied to before me. "How a lot of women behave." This guy literally expects the majority of women to emotionally abuse him and everyone else in their lives, so when he picks an emotionally abusive partner and receives that treatment he will expect and accept the behavior as par for the course in relationships.

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You mean women emotionally abusing men ? So you are wrong . Women become unavailable for whatever whimsical reason l. okay? dread game is basically standing up for yourself and not constantly being an available emotional tampon for her to abuse them go suck a dim nant often mentally abusive male.

Instead you make her feel the same way or worse than what she does to you . When that script is flipped it creates a feeling of dread that you will never be interested in her again by cutting her off completely. It usually works BEST when the girl wants something from you.. when she contacts you call her a bitch and give some odd reason why she violated your boundaries

You may call it abuse if you don't deal in reality but looking at it objectively you are just doing exactly what they do to you . Stop being nice without getting anything in return . Only be nice strategically . Women don't feel attraction for men that ARE NO CHALLENGE. Build your value and let them contact you then implement the dismissive behavior ...or you cut them off completely.

REJECTION IS NATURE'S MOST POWERFUL APHRODISIAC .

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I do want to say that I don’t think she was being quite as manipulative or abusive as a red pill guy. I think red pillers do that kind of stuff intentionally with the goal of forcing her into servitude.

I think my ex just had a problem with unrealistic expectations. She always seemed disappointed in me in some way or another.

One time she seemed very distant and disinterested in spending time with me. She didn’t seem to be having fun on our date. So I asked her “am I a disappointment to you?”

Hoping for loving reassurance like “oh no of course not! I love you!” Or maybe at least “there are things you could work on but that’s ok.”

But no her response was “mmm… no… not really.” A very weak and indecisive “no.”

And then I apologized for asking during our date but felt like I needed to talk to her about it and she just sighed and said “yeah now is really not the time”

And then all I could do was stew in my own thoughts about how I could prove myself to her. I ended up getting so anxious that I threw up all over our table during dinner at a restaurant. Absolutely mortifying for both of us, and then she was mad at me for throwing up.

Of course some of the stuff I think was reasonable for her to complain about, but then when I tried to fix those things she was still upset because I couldn’t just fix all my shortcomings perfectly at the snap of a finger. I don’t think she was knowingly manipulating me, she just wants her partner to fit into her life exactly as she fantasizes about it. Which is unrealistic.

Both of those are toxic and I’m glad our relationship is over. But I think it’s way more toxic to behave that way knowingly.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I do want to say that I don’t think she was being quite as manipulative or abusive as a red pill guy. I think red pillers do that kind of stuff intentionally with the goal of forcing her into servitude. I think my ex just had a problem with unrealistic expectations. She always seemed disappointed in me in some way or another.

This is actually a very good distinction to make. One being intentional and the other basically being a cope means that it's unlikely she'll use all the toxic behaviours all the time, meaning the Red Piller's behaviours might actually be worse than someone who does it as a cope (obviously all this is on a spectrum).

One time she seemed very distant and disinterested in spending time with me. She didn’t seem to be having fun on our date. So I asked her “am I a disappointment to you?” Hoping for loving reassurance like “oh no of course not! I love you!” Or maybe at least “there are things you could work on but that’s ok.” But no her response was “mmm… no… not really.” A very weak and indecisive “no.”

I'm sorry that you went through that. I've been there. That one hurts. 🫂

And then I apologized for asking during our date but felt like I needed to talk to her about it and she just sighed and said “yeah now is really not the time” And then all I could do was stew in my own thoughts about how I could prove myself to her. I ended up getting so anxious that I threw up all over our table during dinner at a restaurant. Absolutely mortifying for both of us, and then she was mad at me for throwing up.

Oh no! I'm so sorry you were given that intense of a feeling from just not getting answers you needed to save your time, energy, and love from being sorta wasted. Anxiety can definitely cause us massive issues until we can get it under control (I finally after years of trial and error got put on the right medicine for my anxiety and Holy, it's like night and day, hopefully you get yours settled!!). I can't believe she got mad at you for an involuntary bodily function! :(

Of course some of the stuff I think was reasonable for her to complain about, but then when I tried to fix those things she was still upset because I couldn’t just fix all my shortcomings perfectly at the snap of a finger. I don’t think she was knowingly manipulating me, she just wants her partner to fit into her life exactly as she fantasizes about it. Which is unrealistic.

I used to be like this, but it was definitely unintentional. I learned in therapy that my upbringing basically pushed me to extremes when it came to expectations, but not realizing that it was coming from people who were never going to be satisfied no matter what I did. That caused me to push hard at basically everything in life, even people. I definitely got successful, won awards, was "known", but it was NOT worth it in the long run. Thank you for sharing your perspective as someone who was on the other side of this pressure. I appreciate your raw but kind honesty a lot.

Both of those are toxic and I’m glad our relationship is over. But I think it’s way more toxic to behave that way knowingly.

Yeah, for sure. That's one thing I'm thankful of is that even when I was being toxic, that it wasn't this planned scheme to get things from them. It was just bad copes from a bad upbringing. I hope that you're doing better now!

[–]ShitFacedSteve 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your supportive words. Even though I've heard it from many people it's always helpful to hear that I didn't do anything to deserve the kind of treatment I got from her.

Oh no! I'm so sorry you were given that intense of a feeling from just not getting answers you needed to save your time, energy, and love from being sorta wasted. Anxiety can definitely cause us massive issues until we can get it under control (I finally after years of trial and error got put on the right medicine for my anxiety and Holy, it's like night and day, hopefully you get yours settled!!). I can't believe she got mad at you for an involuntary bodily function! :(

To add to that story, (if you're interested, no pressure to read if you don't really care lol) I am medicated for anxiety and she knew I had problems with it. For the most part I can keep it under control but intense social situations like that are definitely my anxiety kryptonite, especially if there is no way to make it better or address the situation. She cut off any venue I had to talk about it, and then during dinner just complained about her ex the whole time. We had already been dating for like 7 months by this point, she would never shut up about her ex.

There was a previous time where we ate dinner together and she was very overwhelmed with stresses in her life, and she got emotional and started crying. I didn't have an issue with that, but it was the first time I saw her get really emotional so I kind of freaked out and panicked not knowing what to do. And I got anxious and had to leave her at the table to go throw up. I kept coming back and leaving because I just could not get it under control. And she was disappointed in me because I left her alone in a vulnerable state. I was upfront about what was going on and she sort of understood but was still disappointed.

SO, this time around, I was determined not to leave the table because that was a mistake last time. I kept it under control as much as I could but sometimes there is just no pretending that everything is fine. I didn't leave the table, but I did throw up all over it.

I explained that dilemma to her and her response was "yeah, that was really smart" sarcastically and in an annoyed tone. And at that point I just covered my face and said "oh my god. I'm just trying to do right by you. I feel like everything I do is wrong I just want to do something right."

Then we walked in silence back to our car and I had resolved that I would talk to her about this when we got back to her place and depending on how it went I was either going to break up with her or give her another chance.

At first she tried to dodge talking about it but I made her and expressed my concerns that she was being overcritical and needed to dial it back because I couldn't be comfortable around her. She apologized and agreed she was being too harsh, then started crying. I felt like it went well so I stayed with her, but I think from that point on there was an undercurrent of dissatisfaction that made her eventually break up with me.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for your supportive words. Even though I've heard it from many people it's always helpful to hear that I didn't do anything to deserve the kind of treatment I got from her.

Anytime!!! I honestly try my hardest to be as supportive as I can, though I can be completely oblivious at times when I'm tired or stressed which can look bad in the right cherry-picked situations. That realization of 'not ALL my fault' is definitely a hard one. Deprogramming decades of abuse is not easy. It's like you have to over-analyze every thought, it's root, it's why, and every little thing about to it make sure it's not part of your old OS. 😅 Doing a full nuke and pave of your mind and personality in your 30's is a necessary evil, but it's soooo exhausting. Glad you got there!

To add to that story, (if you're interested, no pressure to read if you don't really care lol)

I read and absorbed EVERY word. Thank you for sharing! I appreciate it more than I can express via text. I've had similar situations, so this helped me look at different perspectives. I hope I never came across that insensitive to my partner like that. Damn. Sounds like you both just needed to work through things and just weren't the right fit (or at least then, I know some couples really benefit from the on/off stuff and become better through it). I hope you find someone that's a better fit for you and understands your anxiety on a personal/deeper level and is aware of it enough to avoid those issues in the future. 💕

(Total side note BTW, but Hydroxyzine is effing amazing for anxiety and is non-addictive if you want any recommendations. Best one I've ever taken and I have zero side effects to my productivity.)

[–]BajaBlast90 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It put me in a position of always
trying to please her but feeling like it was never enough. And
eventually she just broke up with me without explaining why.

People who do this (not exclusively a red pill thing) leech off their partners. Not even just a financial sense but also emotionally and mentally. They're energy vampires, and when they've had their "fill" of you, they will leave you feeling empty and promptly move on to the next victim (which more than likely, they already have lined up. Look up "Narcissistic supply").

There are 3 stages that Narcissistic types will go through: idealize, devalue and discard. The discard stage is when you feel the full effects of cruelty, and you are left in a place where you are broken but they try to position themselves as "on top"

https://narcissistabusesupport.com/stages-narcissist-abuse/

I suppose to a red pill guy
psychologically abusing someone into servitude is their ideal situation
but it ruined my self esteem for quite a while.

It's a shitty and toxic dynamic for everyone involved.

[–]vcreativ 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh man, all this hit deep. It did break me and then I was harassed because it did for years afterward (despite it literally being the KNOWN side effects! UGH!). It felt like I couldn't even control my emotions and thoughts anymore, but finally realizing that it was only around certain people. I finally gave up trying to cope myself because I was so deeply broken from it that I went to specialists to help me.

They helped me see through the bullshit and why it did what it did to me (even teaching me A LOT about brains and why mine worked the way it did, it was very interesting). One said it was terrifyingly a well-planned program to keep a person trauma bonded to the Red Piller, only getting worse and worse if he victim stays. Can't remember exactly, but a lot to do with the amygdala and Default Mode Network. Got a huge wake up call that day for sure.

[–]vcreativ 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad you appear to have experienced post-trauma growth. That's a real achievement.

but finally realizing that it was only around certain people

This is an prized moment of reflection. It sounds so little but it's a gem. You notice a difference and all of a sudden you start looking for more. And once you start looking you'll find a ton. It's all there, practically in the open. But you do need to notice it once.

it was terrifyingly a well-planned program to keep a person trauma bonded

RP and movements like it are a crash course in how to be consumed by a cause. In the end "the others" are not human, rather NPCs, and anything goes. An actor within this movement is either moving towards, has turned into, or always been dark triad.

And these guys (given appropriate mental faculties) are perfectly happy to plan for your destruction. They'll do so with a smile.

So we must all learn the signs, and not assume for a moment that bad people don't exist, or that we'll spot them with ease. Keep your wits about you and if in doubt, trust your gut.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm glad you appear to have experienced post-trauma growth. That's a real achievement.

Thank you. It truly was a game changer for me. I realized afterwards though that I was surrounded by toxicity and abuse and quite literally mentally and emotionally drowning. I just always left hanging out with those people just so exhausted and it seemed like I never recharged fully anymore.

RP and movements like it are a crash course in how to be consumed by a cause. In the end "the others" are not human, rather NPCs, and anything goes. An actor within this movement is either moving towards, has turned into, or always been dark triad.

For real!!! I don't think I ever cried as much in my life as I did after I was taught all this from my specialists. So much self-hate, shame, isolation, avoidance, etc. just melted off me. I was so thankful. It was even better when I got to tell off the one that was constantly telling me that I was some Borderline/Cluster B "psycho" (among many other derogatory terms I got to hear for YEARS) all the time, and having a packet in my hand that said 'no presence of a personality disorder'. Felt so good.

And these guys (given appropriate mental faculties) are perfectly happy to plan for your destruction. They'll do so with a smile.

Yuuuup. And they did. Very well. And throughly. But I have lots of data to finally share and write my experiences, so this will be a fun thing, even if I only share it anonymously under a pen name later. 😇

So we must all learn the signs, and not assume for a moment that bad people don't exist, or that we'll spot them with ease. Keep your wits about you and if in doubt, trust your gut.

🙌🏼

[–]vcreativ 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is so touching to read. Thank you for sharing. I'm a man, and I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Because I understand.

Do write about it, so many people see only the destruction, the damage and forget to venture forward to look for more. Lacking tools and afraid to ask for help they stay in the hole that was dug for them.

And in that, they provide far more power to their abuser than (s)he ever really held.

I feel many people view therapy as something other than what it is, especially with abuse victims (which is what I'd consider this) it's a form of resistance. And once you can resist, however subtly, and be it "just" in your mind, your character strengthens again.

So much self-hate, shame, isolation, avoidance, etc. just melted off me.

Because none of it was you. It was all someone else's doing. And as with all illusions, once you see them for what they are, they pop and they're gone.

no presence of a personality disorder

:) Sometimes the other guy is the only asshole in the room, and isn't it glorious when it's that cut and dry. What gift.

I'm glad we met, all the best in your endeavours. Feel free to get in touch if you ever have a question or anything.

[–]jewdiful 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Your comment makes me think about why I find the whole red pill thing to be so insidious. A person high in self-esteem who knows their value would never put up with someone treating them like this, so these kind of mind games only work on the vulnerable.

People who utilize red pill strategies like “dread game” and “negging” and such are ultimately predators looking for prey. They are users looking to take advantage of someone weaker than them in some way, to exploit that person to get something out of it (sex in particular, when it comes to TRP). It’s sick and disturbing.

Someone who is truly wanting to live a happy, fulfilled life wouldn’t be satisfied by manipulating things out of someone by exploiting their weaknesses. They’d enjoy the challenge of trying to find a partner either at their level or higher. TRP is the opposite of self-actualization, it’s really a process of inflating one’s ego at the expense of the people they’re using as tools to do so.

[–]vcreativ 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I appreciate your response. I appear to have written many words, but I feel they're all relevant. :)

Yes, RP may seem like something young desperate men do, because most are unsuccessful in their efforts. And in a way that might even be considered somewhat funny and pathetic. A set of stumbling idiots maybe.

But there are real victims to this. In RP that's women, but other movements exist where it's men. To meet a person like that in a phase of vulnerability is terrifying. You don't have to beat someone to destroy them. You don't even have to lift a finger. Indeed, you might not even have to say a word.

In the end, as with anyone that fails to see their own worth, it all becomes about power. The absolute expression of value to someone that cannot comprehend it. Sex, submission, money become all just expressions of power. To the otherwise empty, everything is about power.

(Aside: So do tread carefully if someone wants to convince you everything is about power. A surprisingly common phrase considering what it implies about the speaker. They are telling you outright who they are. Don't ignore it.)

Many RPers are looking for love and intimacy. But they are tricked. They're told it comes from the value they possess. A seductive part-truth. And that they may achieve value by amassing power. A pseudo-truth. Some will notice the lie, but the more suggestible, the vulnerable will be consumed by it.

In more ways than one, RPers are boys lost looking for love being told the answer lies with power. They become perpetrators and victims alike. I'm not saying that to excuse them, but I'd suggest you hate what they do, moreso than them. Their journey is a tragedy for how far are they are from what they sought.

Hate clouds your vision. Understanding is what allows you to see. If you understand why someone might go for RP it makes it easier to see them for who and for what they are. And once you do, your vulnerability fades.

In my mind, understanding is the single best defense anyone can hope for.

I should add, I doubt that it's power that corrupts, rather I see it as providing a canvas on which existing corruption may be expressed more clearly and more evidently.

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[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Now this is a great answer. So basically you covertly instill fear into them by leveraging their trauma? Because if they have an anxious attachment, they basically never really had a safe relationship that helped them feel secure and safe, right? You make them feel like it's unsafe for them to be without you, so that they're afraid to leave even if they're not happy with the relationship?

So they never had a chance to learn how to build a quality attachment, therefore they have anxiety over building a pair bond with someone and constantly question whether they're doing it "right" or may fear punishment/being left if they do it "wrong" (hence the anxiety)? Wouldn't that cause them to act in a way that can be annoying to the Red Piller? So he, what, tries to change her behaviour by using dark psychological abusive games that are taught by untrained/unlicensed people online and practiced by untrained/unlicensed people? Hmmm... 🤔

Sounds like this might hurt her substantially if it's not done "right", right? Especially if she's got trauma, right? Do the Red Pillers ask her mental health history before doing these things or is the "alpha" part not caring whether this affects her daily life outside of him? Or do they teach you how to properly assess the true reasons behind her anxiety?

[–]xvszero 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]joshnicaboy 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Very well said. They leverage the fear of abandonment to make the anxious person always come back to them because the pain of being alone is far greater than making the change that the dread gamer wants them to make. Now this is highly toxic for many reasons, primarily being that in this scenario the anxious person has to forego their own needs and desires and will eventually come to resent the person for that (“I do everything for you, and you do nothing but I’m scared to be alone so I will continue to change for you”). That’s not love. It’s coercion (conscious or unconscious) on one side and co-dependency on the other. Dread game is effective in short term power scenarios but is in no way sustainable in a long term committed, loving relationship. When guys like Rollo Tomassi say they “run dread on their wives” I find it very hard to believe and question why none of those red pill guys ever have their wives on their shows if their tactics were so effective in creating healthy relationships. I imagine Rollo’s wife has deep attachment issues herself. Would be a very interesting case study.

[–]thetruthishere_ 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

They leverage the fear of abandonment to make the anxious person always come back to them because the pain of being alone is far greater than making the change that the dread gamer wants them to make.

Wow. So it's sorta like emotional extortion in a sense (the practice of wresting anything from a person by force, duress, or any undue exercise of power)? Sounds like that would definitely create fear and dread, but I can see that eventually negatively affecting someone in a way that can even make a securely attached person anxious to lose the one they love, especially if it's over something you can't control.

the anxious person has to forego their own needs and desires and will eventually come to resent the person for that (“I do everything for you, and you do nothing but I’m scared to be alone so I will continue to change for you”). That’s not love.

This is exactly how I ended up after being Red Pilled by a long-term partner. I went from securely knowing we were in it together as our ride or die with each other to mind-breaking anxiety and panic, even though I was not like that prior. It literally broke me and even my specialist was perplexed by what they were teaching when I showed them. They helped me see through a lot of the bullshit.

When guys like Rollo Tomassi say they “run dread on their wives” I find it very hard to believe and question why none of those red pill guys ever have their wives on their shows if their tactics were so effective in creating healthy relationships. I imagine Rollo’s wife has deep attachment issues herself. Would be a very interesting case study.

Very true! Has she spoken publically or do they do streams together? I would love to see her and her perspective from being the wife of (arguably) the "King of Red Pill"! Or does she run the woman's version of Red Pill (r/RedPillWives)? Sounds like she would know it best. I'm so curious now!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rhazelle 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Why does it only work on emotionally unhealthy people?

Because an emotionally healthy person wouldn't put up with the bullshit.

Take someone who has high self-esteem and confidence and you try to play the "you're worthless and you should feel lucky to have me, I have lots of other hot bitches and can dump you at any time so you better step in line" game with her (this is dread game), watch her laugh in your face and dump you on the spot. Because this woman knows her worth and isn't going to go along with this sort of bullshit.

Now take someone who feels that they are worthless, has low self-esteem, attachment issues (other people have mentioned looking into attachment theory already), past trauma, vulnerability to accepting abusive relationships or whatever and you play the dread game with them, they already felt they are worthless and you are taking advantage of their issues and exacerbating them while making them feel even more worthless.

That's why it doesn't work on emotionally healthy people, and putting dread game in any relationship only either poisons it or is taking advantage of someone who is already emotionally vulnerable.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Because an emotionally healthy person wouldn't put up with the bullshit.

Wasn't that why the coaches taught to do it slowly though? You bring her ego down gradually so she's not secure anymore? That was sorta the purpose behind the negging, right?

Now take someone who feels that they are worthless, has low self-esteem, attachment issues (other people have mentioned looking into attachment theory already), past trauma, vulnerability to accepting abusive relationships or whatever and you play the dread game with them, they already felt they are worthless and you are taking advantage of their issues and exacerbating them while making them feel even more worthless.

Okay, I see now. So they basically prey on those facts about her, her trauma, and make her feel as if it's her fault? Therefore attempting to solidify the worthlessness she has already internalized (say from prior abuse) and copes out and exerting power over it to, what, mold her behaviours how they want her to be?

putting dread game in any relationship only either poisons it or is taking advantage of someone who is already emotionally vulnerable.

That sounds like super shitty things to do. I bet if the tables were turned, they wouldn't like her doing it to him.

[–]Rhazelle 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes the route of "doing it slowly" to an emotionally healthy person could work sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes it could, sure.

It's one of the reasons why predatory men go for younger women instead of women their own age too. Emotionally healthy people say in their 30s are (usually) more secure in themselves and have life experience to see through bullshit easier than say an 18 year old can.

That's why when you see large age gaps in a relationship it's a huge red flag and most of the time end up being abusive relationships. Chances are the older party can't get anyone around their age because they're on to their bullshit, so they need to find someone inexperienced and easy to manipulate.

This process can emotionally traumatize someone where they were healthy and didn't have issues before.

The thing is, people aren't so black and white that certain things will or won't work with 100% accuracy. Not all emotionally healthy people are immune to bullshit behaviour, and some traumatized people do get help and recover.

But yes, it seems you now understand the general gist of what dread game is and what it aims to do.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It's one of the reasons why predatory men go for younger women instead of women their own age too. Emotionally healthy people say in their 30s are (usually) more secure in themselves and have life experience to see through the bullshit easier than say and 18 year old can.

This actually explains soooo much about my former Red Pilled relationships! All this started when I was just a young teen and I didn't 'wake up' from it until I was like 30ish. Kinda sounds like grooming not gonna lie. Ugh, my stomach hurts.

But yes, it seems you now understand the general gist of what dread game is and what it aims to do.

I appreciate it so much! I got so much hate mail before over my understanding and it seems like I had it right all along but was likely being gaslit by several who were trying to change my understanding of it. Fascinating!

[–]thetruthishere_ 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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Hmm...I was reading about the degradation of sperm and it sounds like there is more updated info based on a study that reviewed of 90 studies from more than 30 countries, confirming that there are “consistent age-related declines” in the quantity of semen. It mentioned they found consistent deterioration for certain sperm traits after men turn approximately 35.

So it looks like a man's reproductive health starts declining around 35 and a woman’s starts around 25, is slightly decreased at 25-29, and then gets more prominent around 35-39? That seems fairly comparable to me. So are you saying that dread game is for reproduction purposes only? Or why are we talking about this on a post about dread game? I'm just trying to follow your train of thought.

Edit: OMG, this guy's comment history is comedy gold.

[–]Rhazelle 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Ignore him he's just a dumbass.

A person's worth isn't just about their ability to have children, that's fucking ridiculous and laughable.

Only someone who doesn't have anything else going for them in their life would focus on "well I have viable sperm" as their prime indicator of their worth.

Other people have things like family, friends, a career, hobbies, life experiences, education, a personality, etc. that define them and their "worth" as a person.

If the best thing someone has to say about themselves is "I have sperm and can make babies", they're just a dumbass. Imagine putting that on your dating profile and thinking you're the shit and women should just flock to you.

Save yourself the time and effort of figuring out when people are able to procreate because it has nothing to do with anything and it's a waste of time to be involved in that discussion.

People aren't just baby making machines who are useless if the gears start rusting. Sheesh.

[–]Aksen 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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I didn't. I wasted my 20s with the wrong person. Then dealt with addiction in my 30s. If I had to do it over again I'd do it saas differently. But the mistakes made me who I am today.

Plus with all the mistakes and partying I can feel like I got all my fucking around/bullshit out of the way.

Physically I've always had a great metabolism and somehow it seems I didn't wreck it, yet.

I wouldn't want to date anyone 18 to 22 anyway. But 25 to 30. Yes. As I'd like to maybe have kids.

But I don't ignore women post 30. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer someone below 30 in some physical aspects. But considering the whole package. Maturity, good sense etc.

The right woman may be 33.

I wouldn't pick someone on race alone. Likewise I wouldn't pick someone based on age alone.

Quitting drinking has been huge.

Like many people I used covid as an excuse to drink.

Which was really dumb.

I get way more attention from women now than in my 20s.

Which is great cause I worried about getting older. And it's been quite positive.

[–]GoodSilhouette 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

women are generally attracted to men older than them

Most women date within a few years of themselves, like 1-5 years for younger folks. A handsome 40 year old will struggle against an equally handsome or slightly less handsome 25 year old (for both genders this applies). Its not the end all but the idea time is kind to anyone is dumb. Many of those women dating older are also older than 35 themselves.

Age affects all bodies, sperm quality declines with age even for healthy men because thats how age works, at 40 men's sperm quality decreases. It doesn't mean infertility or that they're bound for defects but its not that of a young man.

But ignoring all that: you said women are treated like princesses when young but not when they're old: at what age are older men treated as desired princes? RP pumps out this idea that women just fall off a cliff in their 30s but none of it is true. They can still go out, get dates, get positive attention just as men.

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Title	What does "dread game" mean and what does it do to the relationship and other person?
Author	NakedNyx
Upvotes	164
Comments	135
Date	July 18, 2022 12:29 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/w1y55s/what_does_dread_game_mean_and_what_does_it_do_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-does-dread-game-mean-and-what-does-it-do-to.1123987 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123987

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