Does it ever feel pointless to you?

Pasolini123 · 2022-10-05T10:17:20+00:00

"Fragile masculinity"😂

I think it's very interesting how the public discourse in the Anglosphere - and subsequently everywhere else as well - has recently been turned into a "minefield" full of buzzwords always ready to "explode" whenever you make any statement whatsoever, which isn't 100% compatible with the feminist dogma.

You don't like feminist misandry = FRAGILE MASCULINITY

You think this misandry is negatively impacting innocent men = MALE TEARS

You try to point out that many of the problems feminists describe as female problems are also male problems or that they have some male equivalents = WHATABOUTISM

You think that you're not 100% responsible for your dating problems, because women also have quite traditional and high expectations = INCEL

You say that you're not an "incel", but you're alone, nevertheless = NICE GUY

You think that many of the problems feminists describe do exist, but some of them are blown out of proportion in their discourse = GASLIGHTING

You say that whatever societal mechanisms are at work in our societies, people still have some agency over their own life = VICTIM BLAMING

You are a single heterosexual man, who is sick and tired of all the dating struggles only men go through, so you prefer to stay home with your doggo = MGTOW (if you're not enough insulted by this name, also INCEL)

You are heterosexual and think that some aspects of traditional masculinity are cool and good for you = TOXIC MASCULINITY

You are gay and think that some aspects of traditional masculinity are cool and good for you = TOXIC MASCULINITY + INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA

You are gay and think that straight women can also be homophobic = GAY MISOGYNY

You are black or gay and think, that you can hardly compare the oppression of groups who were enslaved or put in prison for who they were with the oppression of women = OPPRESSION OLYMPICS

You mention the empathy gap, homelessness, war = RED PILL / MRA (used as an insult)

or

You mention the empathy gap, homelessness, war = MEN SUFFER IN THE WORLD CREATED BY MEN

You think that metoo turned into a witch-hunt = RAPE CULTURE

etc.

Alataire · 2022-10-05T10:21:11+00:00

Is her femininity so fragile that she can only talk about women while in Ukraine and Russia tens of thousands of men are forced to fight and die? Last time I checked Russia is not conscripting any women, and the Ukrainians dying for their country are mostly men too. I can do a whataboutism too...

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-10-05T06:44:39+00:00

Obviously compared to that horrific violence, my feelings aren’t important at all.

First, the importance and validity of your feelings is in no way impacted by what's going on in some other country.

Second, the repression of protestors currently going on in Iran is targeting men to much larger extend than it is targeting women.

It takes quite a bit of mental fortitude, knowledge and skill to counter those kind of feminist retords.

griii2 · 2022-10-05T06:27:25+00:00

I will be honest with you, it never yet felt pointless to me. You make a mark on the world every time you open your mouth. Keep doing it! :)

boomboxspence · 2022-10-05T10:50:38+00:00

There are also more men being murdered in Iran

TisIChenoir · 2022-10-05T07:01:53+00:00

"Is your femininity so fragile that you'd need to fight for issues pertaining to women in our country while there are women murdered in Iran? Do you really have to make it all about you? They havve it much worse you know"

Hey, it works even for women! But in that case, why even having a conversation about mental health. There are people dying right now in some place in the world, our issues seem minuscule compared to that, so let's postpone until nobody is dying anymore....

That's why I hate people who say "don't feel sad, there are people having it worst than you you know", thinking they are comforting you. They are only diminishing your experience.

And let's be honest, in that case I could not ever be happy, because there are people who have it better than me huh! Or hungry, because some people are literally starving. Or... you get the gist.

hotpotato138 · 2022-10-05T11:33:13+00:00

Most people expect men to be strong minded and resilient. They believe men should be able to pull through their issues.

It's better to talk about men's issues in groups that will understand you.

jessi387 · 2022-10-05T15:50:50+00:00

She completely forgets most of the people killed in the streets during those protests are men….

hshsgdve · 2022-10-05T07:25:32+00:00

Simple fix to this one.

When someone, AKA a feminist, says something like this, your standard response should be:

“Aside from brining awareness, how have you helped the situation in Iran? Have you donated money to charity?”

What I have discovered about most modern “activists” (feminists in particular) is that they almost NEVER put their money where their mouth is… they’ll carry around $2000 MacBooks, drink $6 lattes, and go to $250 concerts, while they rant and rave about how we need to “bring awareness” to the issues. It’s pure pontification.

All the while, they won’t donate a cent and you’ll never see them in a soup kitchen without their $1500 iPhone to take well-lit photos for their social media post.

So there’s your trump card. They are full of shit. They don’t actually care about women in Iran, they just care about appearing like they care. Call her out for it… and when she asks, be ready to show her your donation receipt. Ask her for hers.

This is when you’ll get the standard, “well it’s nice to have that kind of money, but not all of us do”. This is the part where you point out their expensive habits and purchases.

If they say stuff like what your friend said to you, humiliate them. They deserve it.

Marty-the-monkey · 2022-10-05T09:20:58+00:00

In terms of whether whataboutism is ever not going to be a thing people resort to?

No, that thing has been around for a while and will always be something people resort to.

What is a far more important aspect is the realization that a whataboutism isn't a trumph card, nor does it have any inherent merit as an argument. Conversely, whataboutism have been called out as the derogative "tactic" (used in the widest possible sense) it is.

It's a way to highjack the conversation and steer it into an area you want to talk about, while dismissing whatever points the other person is making.

Luckily, there seem to be a much larger understanding in current times towards everything having a time and a place, and calling people out for attempting to redirect conversations in specific forums.

Or said more succinctly: "sure that's a problem Cristy, but that isn't what we are talking about right now.

Witch_Hat_Wearer · 2022-10-05T07:23:17+00:00

Why does it always have to be one at the expense of the other? These are two separate topics. The response she gave was off-topic and cringeworthy. It is not your problem.

another-cosplaytriot · 2022-10-05T22:12:37+00:00

There are women being murdered in Iran right now, is your masculinityreally that fragile that you have to take attention away from that?

Not sure it's going to matter with this gem of human accomplishment, but 10x as many men are being arrested in Iran for these protests. Once again, it's men doing the heavy lifting on behalf of women while that entitled asshole in your group complains from half a world away.

alfredo094 · 2022-10-05T18:27:47+00:00

I feel this way even when talking with ostensibly pro-male issues advocates. A lot of the time they simply wanna shit on feminism, and if you talk to an allegedly "pro-male feminist" or smt, they always say "yeah guess you should join feminism huh?"
So yeah I do feel that way. Ironically, the way men's issues are handled right now just reinforces the fact that men should live for women, or that men's lives are unimportant.

Libidomy94 · 2022-10-05T20:31:42+00:00

Wow, what an absolute bitch.

It seems like any time you bring up anything related to very real men’s issues, at least one woman feels the need to minimize and make the conversation about women’s issues.

My go-to line for that behavior is along the lines of “you’re right, that is a major issue that needs to be discussed, but this issue also deserves a conversation.”

Sorry you had to put up with that kind of garbage.

GorchestopherH · 2022-10-05T23:46:02+00:00

Ah, she used the classic "I'm a complete idiot" argument on you.

Women are killed in Iran, and men are killed in every war.

Tell your friend to stop eating till every starving African kid has food.

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-10-05T19:31:30+00:00

I personally gave up a while ago. The red pill movie and the reaction it got was pretty much did it for me. I don't think anybody cares, men or women. They're brainwashed beyond the point of return or they have personal agendas. I just keep myself aware of the environment i live in so i don't get ruined in the 100s of ways possible in our gynocentric society.

devasiaachayan · 2022-10-06T11:03:11+00:00

Why do they think it's a competition. Oh wait, it is a competition. The myth of "female" Victimhood has been used by feminist powers to harm men time and time again. Not only to harm men but to increase regulations and government control everywhere and maybe even de escelate the leftist movement. Yes women are victims but not because men are conspiring to make them victims and its obvious that men are also victims. This was always a struggle against society and class. Not a struggle between men and women. So yes that person there doesn't care about women, she's just protecting her self interests by putting down Men because victimpoints are really important to them.

And yes all of this male advocacy seems pointless tbh and I even feel we're slowly heading into a future where most men will be put into bins to die since many men will be termed "useless" By the ruling class. And because of my own self respect, I'd rather commit suicide than see that future. Once you start seeing the blatant misandry, you just can't ignore it, it starts eating you from inside and makes you hopeless. The fact that my own career life has been put into jeopardy because of sexism makes me suicidal and sadly yet I can't complain about it. It's high time that men start looking out for each other but sadly, most or many men are just selfish cunts themselves. They might even pretend to be "anti feminists" But at the moment a woman they like says "beat this man because he's bad" They won't hesitate to do it (ofc it depends on how weak and unprivileged that man is). Even the law is not fair. There is no fair trial. Women make me feel unsafe everywhere. I have met some very based women, including my girlfriend who truly understand our problems but still I'm hopeless because these women hold no power either. Women can't be "allies" And people here should understand that Because this was never about women or Men. We are not suffering because women want us to suffer, we are suffering to preserve self interests of a small minority of people. The only solution is to dismantle the society and destroy this order but l don't think that's possible, most people are NPCs

FailAggravating6834 · 2022-10-05T20:43:22+00:00

I feel you brother. Personally, I'm in the middle of a war with my former employer (and former university) that circles around gender and sex and I've made a point of REALLY fighting and exposing them. Even caught some prison time for tweeting and emailing. But I won't stop. The thing is, I'm not looking for a woman to save me anymore. They're going to listen to us because they have no choice but to listen to us. That's how I see it.

CoffeehasSentience · 2022-10-05T19:52:00+00:00

That person is an idiot. She'd be an incel if she were born man.

Nobody said anything to her? Hearing shit so manipulative like that...

lawott2 · 2022-10-06T11:11:17+00:00

Other posters have already addressed the actual situation well; yes, it was a non-sequitor and relied on a convenient "soundbite" phrase, and yes, her goal (conscious or not) was to shut down a perspective she didn't like. There are ways of practically handling cheap tactics like that, but I want to offer a little advice to you, OP, personally.

It's helped me to be clear in my own mind about my feelings and expectations when it comes to discussing certain topics. If you bring up a topic like gender disparity in suicide expecting to be met with empathy or understanding or even just curiosity, then you will be hurt and disappointed. You need to be realistic about what you can achieve, in the context of the moment.

For example, when you're expressing a point of view that other people are rarely exposed to, you're going to have to marshal twice the evidence to be treated with half the credibility. If it goes against popular ideas, or if it challenges a set of assumptions that someone else personally identifies with (e.g. "women are the oppressed gender"), you're also going to have to express it with greater clarity and emotional grounding, so as to not appear "fragile" (or "hysterical", as we used to say about women).

Note that I also say, in the context of the moment - people get away with soundbites because people usually aren't looking to seriously intellectually engage in casual conversation. This is where your judgement comes in. You have to ask yourself: what can I realistically bring to people's attention, should I expect to change their point of view, and what will it take from me? Why am I aiming to engage in this topic with them? This will shift from situation to situation, and no one can answer these questions for you.

There’s always a “what about” that makes me feel selfish and ignorant for even having brought up men’s issues.

That's because there is some lingering doubt in you about whether you are being selfish and ignorant. Since no one can be perfectly selfless or omniscient, you're going to have to cut yourself some slack and allow yourself to speak confidently about what you know; you know men commit suicide at multiple times the rate of women, and you know it would benefit men (and all human beings) to talk about it.

You're also going to have to really examine yourself: do you care about the suffering of people, regardless of gender? Do you believe that paying attention to men's issues precludes giving attention to the suffering of women? In my view it absolutely does not, and I had to spend a lot of time internalising that fact before I could speak on these topics without guilt. Recognising almost any problem can be deterred by claiming another as worse.

ConvolutedMaze · 2022-10-07T08:24:34+00:00

I guess the dudes hanging from a noose forgot to check their privilege.

slong35 · 2022-10-08T18:41:32+00:00

Honestly, it feels pointless to me every day. I have no skill with arguing at all so I just end up submitting to people and whatever they want me to do. I’m absolutely fed up with that but I don’t know how to change it.

Been spiraling into a huge depression for years but talking about the truth of the world doesn’t exactly help me. Is there anything that helps any of you?

Juhnthedevil · 2022-10-05T21:13:55+00:00

Respond to her that maybe she is trying to compensate her low self esteem by being so bold and ignorant. 😏

AmDuck_quack · 2022-10-06T04:20:22+00:00

Motanul_Negru · 2022-10-08T03:00:29+00:00

Yes.

The closest 3 people to me in my life are all women, and from what I can tell very loving, humanistic, and well-intentioned ones at that; but even their readiness to engage with men's troubles is pretty much zero. I don't often bring them up, and it doesn't help that when I do, it's because I'm too annoyed to shut up.

Title	Does it ever feel pointless to you?
Author	HazmiirAegis
Upvotes	130
Comments	33
Date	October 5, 2022 6:04 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/xw2dwt/does_it_ever_feel_pointless_to_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/does-it-ever-feel-pointless-to-you.1135031 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135031