weird spot politically

fps81 · 2022-10-16T19:26:40+00:00

In my state (MA), the primary political goal of the feminist movement over the past few years has been to increase the income caps for calculating alimony and child support payments and to reword the guidelines for the family court system to make it less likely for courts to award 50/50 custody or primary custody to fathers. That’s not about equal rights, it’s enforcing beneficial gender roles. The feminist movement is conservative, not liberal.

Unexpected-bug · 2022-10-16T21:44:28+00:00

I would consider myself to be a feminist, hold feminist/egalitarian beliefs, and think that increased diversity/equity is a good thing.

Egalitarianism and feminism are different things. Feminism has been trying to hijack the "equality" or "egalitarian" label for years, up to a point many people still claim they are the same (like you are doing in your post), but they are completely opposite things. Feminism is an ideology based on the idea that women's struggles throughout history are more morally significant than men's struggles, and also that women ones are directly caused by men (the so called "patriarchy"), and because of that ideological fantasy, all the world vision they constructed is based on seeing men as perpetrators and women as victims (AKA women being oppressed as a class, by the patriarchy that is just as proxy to avoid saying "men as a class" and ideas supposedly created by men). So, in the long run feminism tends to female supremacism.

Egalitarianism on the other hand is the idea that every individual should be treated equally no matter its characteristics, it is actually a humanist idea that doesn't have an specific group ou tribe in its center.

So, my friend, by reading your text I may assume you are more an egalitarian that a feminist.

boxelsblocks · 2022-10-16T22:48:15+00:00

I feel like such an idiot whenever I voice support for the left as if I am actively advocating for a group that hates me.

somethingneet · 2022-10-16T18:40:22+00:00

Yup. It's like being too black for white kids and too white for black kids

Tedfordshire · 2022-10-16T22:12:19+00:00

Absolutely.

I am a leftist by every definition, but I do not associate with the modern left in any way. I'm not a feminist, I can't stand identity politics, I don't like policing speech.

This sub is the only political group I've found, online or in real life, that isn't dominated by feminist rhetoric or openly misogynistic.

Impressive_Male · 2022-10-16T19:10:18+00:00

Yes, it was somewhat always like that. If you ask a feminist reason for a woman's problem they will tell you it's patriarchy and if you ask for a reason to men's problem they will again say patriarchy. Like, why women do suicide? Because, men are violent, it's patriarchy, men are making them to do it, arrest men and in my country it's actually happens if a wife do suicide then her husband gets arrested for it but on flip side when a man attempts suicide, it's his toxic masculinity, he didn't speak up, he was toxic, men are toxic and guess what here his wife doesn't get arrested because c'mon how can a woman make someone to do suicide, women are so nurturing.

Like, seriously we are always like this. When women are in problem it's society's issue and when men are in problem it's men's issue. Maybe, it's tribal, we are having this practice maybe since we were living in tribe and still following it.

DifferenceThat8887 · 2022-10-17T08:50:50+00:00

"But if you go over to askfeminists or another similar sub and the whole
rhetoric is just blatantly punitive towards men with absolutely 0 nuance
(men are always bad (or almost always bad), women have no institutional
power, etc)."

Yeah this is one of the things that has increasingly turned me off of feminism. Honestly the way they talk about men in feminist subreddits sometimes would make you sound like an extreme misogynist if said about women. I saw a TwoX post that talked about how dogs being afraid of men shows that men are horrible and abusive when its literally just because men are bigger.

Plus anything that might require them to consider men's experiences in a way that challenges their own gets a really negative response. There was another post asking about how to talk about male abuse victims and they all said 'don't talk about false accusations' even though evidence suggests false accusations are extremely common for male abuse victims. They also blanket refuse any attempt to discuss men's difficulties in courts.

Really its the same phenomenon as men getting defensive about issues like sexual violence towards women etc only there's no actual social pressure for women to actually consider mens experiences so feminists don't even realize they are doing it.

Krausewitz · 2022-10-16T22:44:33+00:00

We’re all in the same weird spot politically….that’s why we’re here!

Any way I’m skeptical of “equity”. I don’t see how that can mean anything other than “discrimination”.

hshsgdve · 2022-10-16T19:02:36+00:00

You’re not a feminist, my dude.

We all believe women should have rights.

Prairie_Strange · 2022-10-17T06:17:02+00:00

You can't be feminist AND egalitarian, they are mutually exclusive. one is about true equality, the other is about power, control and dominance.

Jonathanese · 2022-10-17T18:13:57+00:00

Yep. Yes. I feel like this is one of the big motivations for this sub.

I hate taking sides. I hate shutting off ideas. I hate looking for conspiracy. I hate focusing on bad news and treating good news as a threat. I'm just sick of it all.

Like why can't we just let research and numbers speak for themselves? And withhold drawing conclusions until we have actually researched the topic, and then abandon loyalties to a particular conclusion if that conclusion is found to be wrong?

Like with crime. You hear stuff like "Women only commit crime because they are oppressed. Men commit crime because they feel their precious privilege is being threatened."

Oh, what an interesting conjecture you got there. Rather than sitting and debating what the reasoning is or which narrative is correct, why not just create methods of experimentation to turn the damned thing into a hypothesis? Why not wait until the results are in, challenged, and data builds to draw your conclusion? Why tf does everyone jump straight to the conclusion before the data is in, then reject the data if it doesn't agree with what they are wanting it to say?

God. It sounds like Trump saying "We'll see how the election goes. I will probably win. If not, it was rigged."

I feel like Viserys trying to play mediator all the time and being called "the enemy" by both. Politics has become so aggravating. Which sucks because I love politics.

Like everyone's debating "Socialism" vs "Capitalism" and taking a hard stance. And I'm here like "we should probably socialize health insurance because the private sector isn't working", but if someone provided some Ancapistan "free-market" solution that actually works better, I'll straight up abandon my previous stance. I don't give a damn which side the progress came from, I just want progress.

Sorry, Ending my rant.

Tabitheriel · 2022-10-18T15:31:05+00:00

I'm a woman and I am an old-school feminist, but I got kicked out of the feminist subreddit because I said that not all men are rapists or potential rapists. It's a stupid way of seeing other people, like claiming all women are potential shoplifters.

So welcome to the club. Social media is toxic.

lingdingwhoopy · 2022-10-16T22:00:26+00:00

I often feel like a pariah politically. I'm left. Simple as that. I believe in social and economic equality. I believe in socialized healthcare, housing, college, etc. I believe in intersectionality and systemic oppression that adversely effects different demographics. I believe in complete gutting and reforming law enforcement. I believe in legalization of most drugs.

Yet I find most of the mainstream leftist talk shallow and pedantic. It's all concerned with optics and fighting against shit that doesn't matter - like what new show is problematic and what celeb we need to cancel next. As a deep lover of pop culture and art, mainstream leftism - or more accurately social media leftism - has made simply wanting to enjoy and discuss art online a severe fucking headache.

Social media leftism is full of cutesy, snide, generalizations of "the enemy" that only serves to ostracize potential allies.

Social media leftism is also the biggest purity testing "community" out there it seems. It doesn't matter how much lefty 1 agrees with lefty 2 - if lefty 1 has a slightly different take on something than lefty 2, well, lefty 2 revokes your lefty card and casts you out...calling you bad faith, right wing, and more the entire time.

And on yet another side while I do believe mainstream liberal/leftism has to be confronted with the casual misandry it has created...I'm also equally as turned away from men's right supporters who deny history and how society has treated women.

Men rights is full of full on historical revisionists who proudly proclaim women were never truly oppressed and downplaying past misogyny.

I think the focus needs to be how hierarchical power has historically oppressed EVERYONE not rich and powerful. And that oppression takes the form of misogyny and misandry in various ways.

Power, wealth, and religion is what fucked the world.

FrostieTheSnowman · 2022-10-17T01:42:35+00:00

I absolutely agree with you.

rochesterslim · 2022-10-17T01:15:55+00:00

i have a solution-come together as an anti misandry group. like civil rights groups did, no real political overarching thing just we are anti misandry. will attract right people.

Ok_Line_886 · 2022-10-17T07:03:46+00:00

The path of progress is fraught with nuance.

International_Crew89 · 2022-10-22T20:12:01+00:00

We on this sub are all in that wierd political spot, where we recognize nuanced issues for what they are, rather than just internalizing tribal/polemic rhetoric. Congratulations (and commiserations for the social disonance this causes), you are a qualified critical thinker.

NeonFizzyXD13 · 2022-10-17T17:02:26+00:00

I got banned for bad faith there because they couldn't come up with arguments for their rhetoric. Most of my comments were hid by a moderator anyway.

pumpkinsinmay · 2022-10-20T01:04:33+00:00

Yeah I defo agree with you I find myself in a limbo where I view women and men as completely equal but theirs obvious power imbalances. I think there’s a lot of polarization because the topics themselves aren’t nuanced. For example I debated a feminist on if men are able to get sexually assaulted by women. She literally thought I was calling all women rapists. This kinda thinking is really common for both sides

Automatic-Post1023 · 2022-10-22T00:24:16+00:00

yessss so hard man! im more centrist today than i ever was..used to be left leaning then 2021 was a shitshow and the whole internet turned me off from even getting into politics anymore. The subs you picked are the ones I saw as well being way to fucking dramatic or extreme. Seems sad that those places lost their appeal of what made them great in the first place.

On your last comment, I do think the louder are the minority posting on those type of subs. I dont think the average citizen is spamming on reddit or commenting on every post. we also have all walks of life here and you can say some international trolls get a kick of posting extreme bs themselves to rile up the comments. Twitter is also another cancer you should avoid, worse opinions that reddit.

grump63 · 2022-10-25T17:29:54+00:00

I don't think r/mensrights is too conservative but I do also try to hold them accountable when I comment there for what can be misconstrued as woman bashing. Often the OP will clarify their stance, it makes you wonder if the perceived misogyny in that space is just our brains assuming the worst.

However the left generally doesn't care about men's issues so you really can't be surprised by conservative tones.

I'm in the middle on capitalism/socialism so I'm pretty used to not fitting in politically. Which I'm fine with because I'm not addicted to labels.

Title	weird spot politically
Author	No-Acanthaceae-8809
Upvotes	118
Comments	55
Date	October 16, 2022 6:08 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/y5ni8c/weird_spot_politically/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/weird-spot-politically.1135347 https://theredarchive.com/post/1135347