A Man's Right to Choose? - TIME

4Li3n · 2010-07-25T17:22:47+00:00

Interesting legal arguement.

In Canada this line of reasoning could have even more force as the Charter explicitly states that the sexes are equal (ie: women can go topless where men can go topless).

In BC the provincial government is in the late stages of an exhaustive multi-year review of family law and I doubt very much that this line of 'reasoning' has been looked at - we are indeed living in interesting times.

rmbarnes · 2010-07-25T17:47:17+00:00

We don't have the right to make the choice of abortion for women, they should not have the right to make the choice of legal/financial responsibility for us. Women should not get special treatment just because they are women.

Fractella · 2010-07-26T01:29:36+00:00

Firstly. We all know it takes a male sperm and a female egg to make a baby. If a male consents to sex, he's accepting the possibility of getting pregnant, no matter how small that chance it. This goes for women as well.

Assuming Joe sleeps with Sue, and Sue gets pregnant, both should have a say in the matter of responsibility for the child. Joe has the right to say "I do not want to father this child." Assuming abortion is legal, Joe should be able to remove all responsibility from this child. Sue can then decide her course of action. She can abort, put up for adoption, or keep the child, but she cannot ask Joe for child support.

However, assuming the same situation with Sue getting pregnant, but abortion is illegal, it's only fair that if Sue is stuck without a choice, so is Joe.

It only really gets sticky when Joe wants to keep the child, but Sue does not. This is where a negotiation would have to occur. Unfortunately, there would probably have to be some reproductive laws drawn up to protect men and women.

(And here's the part Mensrights won't like too much.) Women have a full right to their own body, and I think it would be a pretty incredible battle to try to make a woman have an abortion. The only win-win situation where a man wants an abortion and a female wants to keep the child, is for the male to have the right to remove all legal responsibility. We would have to relate back to the first bit of giving consent to pregnancy if you stick it in. Please keep in mind that these are physical things that cannot be changed, so don't resent women because we end up with the responsibility for an unborn person.

But again, men should be able to say, and I think it needs to be said within a certain amount of time after being informed of pregnancy "I will not take legal responsibility for this child." This would also mean forfeiting the unborn child to the mother, and releasing all responsibility/ decisions thereafter to her.

Fractella · 2010-07-25T16:06:25+00:00

A man should be able to repudiate both his responsibilities and his rights concerning an unwanted child. Likewise, if a man is to have responsibility for an unwanted child imposed upon him, then he should also have the right of shared custody by default, along with all of the other rights of a father.

jjhare · 2010-07-26T13:13:31+00:00

Best part is a woman can decide you have responsibility for a child and deny you an right to see that child. I have seen my 10 year old daughter 7 times in her entire life while paying every penny of support I owe. The cost of support and living in the Washington, DC area makes it near impossible for me to seek legal assistance (paying for a lawyer and making time to go to court are pretty hard when you're struggling to make ends meet in one of the most expensive areas in the US).

The biggest load of shit in the whole system is the idea you have a responsibility to pay child support with absolutely no rights associated. You can't even claim the costs of child support for tax purposes (while the custodial parent can claim it all and doesn't have to count the support as income).

But hey, we're all equal right?

FreyasSpirit · 2010-07-26T01:30:08+00:00

This article is from 2006. Anyone know what happened to the case?

c0mputar · 2010-07-26T07:06:57+00:00

If woman want equality, then why are they removing a man's equal choice in the matter? Since a man cannot possibly force a woman to have an abortion, and shouldn't, then a man should have another way to make his decision, and that would be to relinquish any monetary or parental responsibility over the child. If abortion is illegal after X months, then so is relinquishing your responsibility as a man or woman. A woman can choose to carry the child and relinquish control to the man, it does happen actually (and I've never heard of a woman in that situation having to be on the hook financially :P).

Yes women have the more physical end of the deal concerning pregnancy, but so does men for every other aspect of life. We do 99% of all the physical labor in the world from our tween years until we're cripple. That's just how it is in life, get over it, but the issue at hand here is whether or not a man should be forced into the role of a father if he doesn't want to be, when that same right is afforded to a woman in the form of an abortion or when they actually relinquish control (and they know the court will never put them on the hook financially).

amy_two_shoes · 2010-07-26T13:39:31+00:00

It pisses me off that the author says "it's a legal stunt". It shouldn't be considered a stunt...it should be considered a huge step forward in equalizing the gender disparity in unwanted pregnancies- and in ending violence towards women from men who don't want to be held accountable for children they never wanted in the first place.

bad_keisatsu · 2010-07-25T16:48:57+00:00

Good article.

JLContessa · 2010-07-25T20:38:47+00:00

Pardon, but I don't see how asking a woman to end a potential life and put herself physically at risk is the same as asking a man to help pay for the child once it's there, as long as there was no malicious intent from the mother to begin with.

Besides, with everyone giving up responsibility for these unwanted children, what happens to THEM? Who picks up the slack? Since when have we abandoned the idea that when there's a baby involved, it isn't ABOUT YOU anymore?

blinderzoff · 2010-08-09T21:35:32+00:00

There is concern that violence against pregnant women is fueled by men trying to avoid a financial liability.

Wait, violence against pregnant women? Like it's a trend? WTF? Pregnant women are statistically at the least risk of violent crime of all subgroups in the population.

So this "concern" is either thinly disguised bigotry against men, as if men generally would beat a pregnant woman into submission, or more likely cover for anti-male bias in legislation and practice.

sweater_vest · 2010-07-25T21:37:28+00:00

I completely agree with this. I've worked at an abortion clinic for 3 years and always felt that this was a huge double standard. Well presented article without being judgmental.

Koara · 2010-07-25T20:04:13+00:00

It's a legal stunt, but as a way of calling attention to double standards and *unintended consequences*, the campaign makes sense.

Consequences will never be the same.

blurghh · 2010-07-25T20:34:36+00:00

this is...stupid.

the guy who said that he thought his girlfriend couldn't get pregnant because of a 'medical condition'---what the hell was stopping him from wrapping it up?

the two issues aren't even comparable---the pregnancy's physical toll is almost entirely on the female---SHE has to carry the child for 9 months---it's a discussion on the right of the woman to what happens to her own body.

now i'm not one to deny that men sometimes get shafted in family law--in terms of custody rights especially. but this just doesn't fly. the consequences for the two people involved are NOT the same or even on the same level (insert meme). in no way should anyone but the woman be allowed to make the decision with what happens to the woman's body.

if the men don't want to be financially tied to a kid, then wrap it up. simple as that.

RickRussellTX · 2010-07-25T22:38:30+00:00

early in pregnancy, if contraception failed, men should have a choice

I am impressed that this gentleman and his lawyer have framed the "right to refuse financial support" in a way that puts the * entire burden for successful birth control and the abortion on the female partner*.

Basically, this guy didn't use any birth control of his own, and now he shouldn't be financially responsible for the clear and obvious consequences of his own negligence? So she thought she couldn't get pregnant, and that absolves him of making the slightest effort to avoid undesired consequences?

Sex makes babies, people. Either take responsibility, or fly solo.

SmartAssX · 2010-07-25T19:09:25+00:00

Ether get the abortion or absolve me of responsibility

Mitchellonfire · 2010-07-25T19:43:19+00:00

This is the exact stance I take on this issue, great read. When discussed here before, however, it was pointed out to me that in one instance there is a child and one there isn't. While a child growing up without financial support in a society that basically requires the support of two parents just to get by, I consider myself a mens rights activist, not a childs activist.

The_Croquet_Player · 2010-07-25T21:13:42+00:00

Men who do not wish to father children should have a vasectomy.

2010-07-25T18:17:00+00:00

Great read.

cryptogirl · 2010-07-26T00:22:49+00:00

If we had a society that took care of its own, child support laws would not be an issue. We should be supporting single parent families collectively, not throwing the bulk of the financial burden on non-custodial parents who are often unable to meet that responsibility.

etherspirit · 2010-07-25T21:00:38+00:00

And who said the interest in Men's Rights is declining? This is in TIME! This is awesome press. Hopefully more and more will join this gathering.

dorei22 · 2010-07-25T20:34:23+00:00

I dunno, I'm iffy on it so far. I mean, the woman has to carry the child (if she choses yes), and risk health problems and even death (more common than you think). If she decides to get an abortion or put it up for adoption, she has to go through the emotional and physical trauma of all that, which most men shrug off as nothing, while they get off the hook for having done nothing.

However, it isn't fair that women get to chose to have an abortion/adoption without the father's permission.

As for men getting out of being financially responsible simply because they don't get to demand that a woman has an abortion so they don't have to pay for it, is just retarded and self-serving. That's being a hypocrite. They whine when women don't ask them for permission for abortions, but then use the abortion as an excuse to get out of paying.

Make up your minds.

brunt2 · 2010-07-26T04:10:15+00:00

\2006. It obviously failed.

hot-to-trotsky · 2010-07-25T17:18:37+00:00

Of course the potential father should be able to voice his opinion on what the woman should do, but at the end of the day it's her body and her decision should be final.

Chandon · 2010-07-25T22:08:16+00:00

Feit argues that within a short window of time after discovering an unplanned pregnancy — he has proposed a month, but thinks a week might even be more appropriate — a man should have the right to terminate his legal and financial obligations to the child.

This seems like the kind of thing a man should have to decide before sex happens, rather than after. That way, a woman who wouldn't have an abortion can decide to not have sex with the man.

SarahC · 2010-07-26T04:50:20+00:00

The only sure protection is total abstinence.

Hah.

fishwish · 2010-07-25T15:47:18+00:00

Wednesday, Mar. 15, 2006

kasumi1190 · 2010-07-25T21:05:51+00:00

Stories like this piss me the fuck off, stupid fucking women abusing broken fucking laws.

However, wear a fucking condom no matter what you dumb shits. Who the hell would honestly believe a woman who said this?

Title	A Man's Right to Choose? - TIME
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	131
Comments	148
Date	July 25, 2010 3:35 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/cti2e/a_mans_right_to_choose_time/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-mans-right-to-choose-time.1048469 https://theredarchive.com/post/1048469

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