A question for the MRA

Juan_Golt · 2014-08-20T19:55:12+00:00

But if you guys fight for equality why do you focus on only one gender?

We advocate for specific issues facing men, because groups with a narrow focus are more successful. There are specific issues affecting men that we want to change/fix. We don't see this as overlapping with the issues women face. Unlike feminism we do not claim that some sort of matriarchy pervades all gendered issues. You could ask this same question of any group. Why not fight for women too? Why not kids? Why not elderly? Why not LGBT? Why not ethnicity? Why not class? etc... etc... Until you end up with an amorphous group called 'good things' which is for "good things for all people (and creatures), less bad things." Which is invariably useless and accomplishes nothing.

Almost all the advances the MRM has made are from groups with even narrower focuses than the MRM as a whole. Equal parenting is pushed by fathers rights groups. Prison reform is pushed by groups focused on only that single issue. You see this same dynamic in other groups. The first Feminists weren't Feminists they were suffragettes. The first Civil Rights Advocates were abolitonists. Single issue groups are more effective.

Lobstermansunion · 2014-08-20T19:48:19+00:00

Most of us do advocate for rights for everyone, but our focus is the neglected territory of men's issues. Also, many of us don't even identify as an MRA.

Hamakua · 2014-08-21T02:05:30+00:00

The MRM. Mens Rights Movement. An MRA is a Men's Rights Advocate. It's not generally referred to as the Men's Rights Adovcacy. "a while" is subjective to say the least.

We don't focus on one gender. We are currently focusing on the disproportionately disadvantaged gender. I am telling you right now if the scales were flipped, I would be on the other side with the same exact attitude... as a matter of fact, I was. I was already a feminist and when objectively looking at the evidence and getting my ass handed to me in debate, I became an MRA. (this was like ~2001).

If we make great strides in the next 30 years and it turns out women are getting the shit end of the stick because of some sort of systemic backlash against feminism, I'll be there fighting whoever I can for the benefit of women. The thing about the MRM (for now) is that it is acutely aware of the things that has lead to Feminism, and its proclaimed good intentions, in getting out of control.

It is discussed very often but most "non diehards" don't pay attention because it can be boring stuff. It's fairly regularly discussed as a counter-point on podcasts like Honey Badger Radio and it is actually a common "what makes you different from feminism" counter-claim by higher standing feminists.

I don't call myself a Human Rights Activist because feminism has co-opted that cause and if you pay attention, they will pursue all manner of causes except specifically gender inequality for men. This is why the president of the united states will come out and make comments about 3rd world country girls being kidnapped, but has yet to allow or authorize a White House Council on Men and Boys (even though there is a White House Council on Women and Girls). If you look, sure, human rights is important, but "because male" is excluded from that consideration to date.

I don't call myself an Egaltarian because I've noticed a lot of them are more sit around and do nothing than even the Tumblr SJW's. Lots of talk about supporting Ron Paul, and random independents that will never get elected just so they can delude themselves into thinking they are getting something done. And they also fall into the "Lets take everything on" trope, but tend to leave the "because male" until last -if at all.

No other demographic besides male is legally persecuted in the United States, as in codified into law, the rules that dictate who how and why I can be free.

That's why I'm an MRA.

AdmiralKuznetsov · 2014-08-20T19:39:39+00:00

Because women have their own advocacy groups and because any group devoted to both men and women will ultimately devolve into being entirely devoted to women. Also, we don't oppose women's rights, Feminism does oppose men's rights.

"Feminism helps men too!"

BlueDoorFour · 2014-08-20T19:17:27+00:00

For the same reason gay-rights advocates aren't fighting for animal rights.

Or to put it another way, many of us are both men's and women's rights advocates.

We're not superheroes. You have to pick your causes. Just because we choose to advocate for the rights of men and boys doesn't mean we oppose the rights of any other group. It's just a matter of where we place or priorities.

RaxL · 2014-08-20T19:31:07+00:00

This is why I don't call myself an MRA. I'm more of just an anti-feminist.

It's fine to combat feminism and it's fine to bring light to issues faced by any demographic, but I don't like the fact that it's largely just men's issues, as if each demographic needs to argue in favor of themselves.

I just come here for the news and discussions, but I'm more of an all around egalitarian I guess. This isn't to say that MRA's aren't egalitarians, but to call yourself an egalitarian and then surround yourself in nothing but the issues of one demographic is a big disingenuous imo.

DavidByron2 · 2014-08-20T20:13:54+00:00

if you guys fight for equality why do you focus on only one gender?

Can you think of any issues actually facing women? Because I can't and neither can any feminists I ask.

And I always ask them.

And now I'm asking you.

Captaincastle · 2014-08-20T18:58:29+00:00

We're not human right's activists. We're not humanists. We're advocates for men's rights.

We are usually also those other things, but that's not what this sub is for. It'd be like going to /r/halo and wondering why we don't talk about Call of Duty more.

avantvernacular · 2014-08-21T16:11:37+00:00

We are attempting to address an area which has gone neglected in the pursuit of equality. That does not mean we are indifferent to other areas of equality. If one man washes dishes and another dries them, do the both not contribute to clean dishes?

MRSPArchiver · 2014-08-20T18:55:35+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

TRPACC · 2014-08-20T18:58:52+00:00

Which mra have you been following?

TheBauhausCure · 2014-08-20T19:16:02+00:00

It's about making sure that double standards don't go unnoticed. It's about making sure fathers have equal say in custody, that men who are in abusive relationships are taken seriously and not made fun of.

Some radical feminists (not all, mind you) believe that "all genders are created equal, but some genders are more equal than others."

headless_bourgeoisie · 2014-08-20T20:18:52+00:00

Feminists advocate for women's issues, MRAs advocate for men's issues.

iongantas · 2014-08-20T20:45:57+00:00

So first, there isn't inherently a problem with fighting for the rights of a particular group, as long as those rights are stated, specific, factual and measurable (e.g. you can tell when they have been attained). This is the general methodology of the MRM (Men's Rights Movement, contra MRA => Men's Rights Advocate).

When you are fighting for the rights of a specific group and they are stated only in comparative terms of another group, and presumed always to be less than that group, then you have ideology, and problems ensue.

rocelot7 · 2014-08-20T21:00:22+00:00

Tough I personally don't consider myself an MRA, the people that do specify that they are human rights activists that specialize on issues that effect men.

seego79 · 2014-08-20T23:17:31+00:00

i label myself as an egalitarian, it covers the fact i believe in equality for all, i don't take specific tags because then you limit yourself. i put my energy into most things i can.

Eulabeia · 2014-08-21T00:31:33+00:00

The name isn't important (at least to me). You can call me whatever the fuck you want, I don't give a shit. It just so happens that men face civil rights issues that are unique to their gender, and that's why it's in the name.

Feminists on the other hand usually even admit that they're not even fighting for any specific rights anymore. However the name is still important them because they feel it promotes the idea that women are still oppressed or whatever and need to always be looking out for each other.

xNOM · 2014-08-21T01:07:29+00:00

You guys fight for equality while excluding woman

We do? How. There are plenty of women here.

tallwheel · 2014-08-21T03:42:43+00:00

"Ideally there should not be a men's movement but a gender transition movement; only the power of the women's movement necessitates the temporary corrective of a men's movement." - Warren Farrell

2014-08-21T04:58:38+00:00

his is the same problem I have with Feminism. You guys fight for equality while excluding woman, and that seems a little ironic. Why instead of calling yourselves MRA you don't call yourselves Human Rights Activists (or maybe other name since I think this one means another thing)?

Because:

(1) Feminism has been so successful, it would be a bad idea to choose an alternative strategy different from theirs based on an idea that may be, frankly, a bit naive.

(2) Because every time men bring up issues related to men's rights in a setting that is broader (e.g. human rights), their issues always get pushed to the side, mocked, or delayed ad infinitum on the basis that someone else supposedly has it worse. Because, let's face it, in any group with as broad a commission as "human rights" there is always going to be a large proportion of people who basically hate men (or at least "white male patriarchy") and are going to do everything at their disposal to make sure men's issues are put at the bottom of the list of things to act upon. Because that's their M.O.

A good example is gay marriage. So here we now have a lot of reform going on to bring gays into marriage, which is great and all. Really, I'm happy for them. However, the fact that 50% of people already getting married (men) are basically being shit on by this institution called marriage continues to be ignored. Like it's a big emergency to let this other 1 or 2 percent of people in on the game, but let's continue to ignore the fact that the entire institution is broken, complete shit, and let's continue to ignore the fact that the 50% who are already getting married are getting massacred by it every day of the week. So yeah, I understand, it's a tradition that men always get off the sinking boat last. But you know what? That's a bunch of crap.

So while your idea sounds nice in theory, in practice it would just result in the same thing that's been happening for the last century, which is nothing being done.

TechnoSam_Belpois · 2014-08-22T02:02:55+00:00

Others have made decent points, but this is one reason why I don't actually identify as an MRA. It's not that I think the average MRA cares nothing about women. But it's a label. A label anyone can pick up, and can possibly be misconstrued.

Honestly, I strongly believe that MRAs have hugely superior arguments compared to feminism, but I still don't feel comfortable carrying the title for the simple fact that it's a label.

Bla34112 · 2014-08-22T22:58:35+00:00

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to split up gender activism into a man and woman arm of it. Women and men face different issues.

We are about equality, but we do not claim to be the sole authority on it. We are the mens side of the equation. Hopefully feminism will either become sane or be replaced with the womens version of us one day.

guywithaccount · 2014-08-20T20:12:55+00:00

There's already a group that fights for women.

Title	A question for the MRA
Author	Direclaw777
Upvotes	4
Comments	48
Date	August 20, 2014 6:55 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2e3ujr/a-question-for-the-mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-question-for-the-mra.1620282 https://theredarchive.com/post/1620282

Comments