~ archived since 2018 ~

Richard Dawkins on "It's offensive"

bbeard

April 26, 2012

424 upvotes

/r/MensRights

Archived from /r/MensRights

r/MensRights is a community advocating for the social and legal equality of men and boys since 2008.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill subreddits and blogs. This page is our copy of the original post.

/r/MensRights archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Richard Dawkins on "It's offensive"
Author	bbeard
Upvotes	424
Comments	155
Date	April 26, 2012 12:28 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/stgci/richard_dawkins_on_its_offensive/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/richard-dawkins-on-its-offensive.1023145 https://theredarchive.com/post/1023145

Comments

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]bbeard[S,🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just to let you know, I upvoted you because you do have a point. Agreed that in practice you need some sort of social skills to get your arguments heard. However it is lazy to pursue social skills to the exclusion of arguments, and to pretend that social skills are a substitute for arguments. There is a difference between accepting that social factors play a role in getting your argument heard and regarding that as desirable, or to go even further to say that social factors should grant not just visibility but also validity to your arguments. Using 'It's offensive' as an argument is to use your social skills as a substitute for providing well-reasoned arguments, instead of as a way to make your well-reasoned arguments heard. Now, do I think it is desirable that educated individuals like Dawkins have to rely on building up their popularity in order to get heard? No, I don't - which is something in favor of anonymous forums like reddit. On the other hand, it is not like Dawkins is using his popularity to bludgeon people into accepting his ideas - so I don't find him to be comparable in his actions to those who go all "It's offensive". However, suppose that he did act in such a manner, using social skills as a substitute for arguments instead of a way to get his arguments heard. That would then make him personally a hypocrite, but this particular statement would still be reasonable.

[–]Eryemil 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

An explanation for what? You basically took half a page to repeat that you don't like Dawkins, using shitty, intellectually dishonest and fallacious arguments to support your stance.

Bear in mind, Richard Dawkins is only powerful because of monetary backing, social support of many followers, an ability to continually communicate his message, and staying alive/relevant in the media.

So you mean that the fact that he's a respected biologist with a steel-sharp mind, a good command of language and one of the first people to ever speak out on the subject with the brashness and irreverence attributed to the so-called "New Atheists", from his particular perspective, has nothing to do with it?

Support for him doesn't exist in a vacuum and it is not like he's the only, or even most renowned among people spearheading the modern atheist movement and secularism, skepticism and rationalism. He was just one of the first and most well-spoken, with many books to his name, most of them written well before the rise of the modern atheist movement.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eryemil 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Eryemil1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have heard atheists, liberals, and all sorts of people belonging to supposedly accepting groups make as many disparaging comments about homosexuals as anyone else.

But have you seem opinion surveys on the subject? Anecdotal evidence is almost worthless. Any opinion survey on the subject will show you that homophobia is correlated with religiosity, which is correlated with lack of education with is correlated with religiosity...

I remember in the old Richard Dawkins forum, there was a poll that went on for quite a while with hundreds of respondents. Support for same-same marriage was something like 98-99%.

Effectively people are insensitive to each other regardless of their group. People use groups as an excuse to be insensitive and rude to each other.

I'm of the opposite mind. People are too sensitive these days. Disagreement is not oppression.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Alanna 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Alanna 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Alanna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

In addition, students at a major university also cause a significant amount of traffic congestion, and they often cross when they are not supposed to as signaled on the designated traffic lights/signs.

It all relates back to the central point of offense due to lack of consideration of others and the larger picture/scheme of things.

Have you ever read "On A Pale Horse" by Piers Anthony? In it, the personification of Death (the main character) goes to visit the personification of Nature. Nature makes him pass a kind of physical challenge to get in to see her. It takes him a while to catch on to what she did, but he finally figures out that she put him on a temporal mobius strip and provided him with different modes of transportation each time-- a motored vehicle, a self-powered vehicle (like a bike), and no assistance (pedestrian). He admits, after she explains why she did it:

"That arrogant idiot in the power boat - " He grinned ruefully. "Who was me. It seemed so different in the car! I thought I owned the road and that the others were intruding on my surface. As a walker or swimmer, I wasn't paying attention to anything except getting myself along. As a cyclist or bottlist or whatever, I was caught in the middle, between the arrogant power driver and the ignorant self-mover. Both seemed wrong. I'm not proud of my performance, in retrospect."

Tl;dr - Consideration, or lack thereof, is often a matter of perspective.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Alanna 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalks in many places. And where they are-- they are a hazard to slower moving pedestrians, particularly ones with mobility issues, such as the elderly and small children. There's also the question then of the bicycle's status on the sidewalk-- is the cyclist now subject to pedestrian laws or motor ones? I almost hit a bicyclist the other day who came shooting out of nowhere from the sidewalk into the crosswalk. He was on the left side of his street as I was about to make a right turn on red, and while I checked adequately for pedestrians, I was not checking for someone on the left side of the street coming at his speed.

Was he showing lack of consideration by not taking proper caution of motor traffic, or being on the right side of the road? Or was it me, for not checking properly for cross traffic, even cross traffic not in the street and on the wrong side of the road?

[–]EricTheHalibut 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Celda 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]downuno 14 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think saying 'you're wrong, you're wrong' would be received well by people.

[–]Doctor_Loggins 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sharkictus 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thefran 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]HollowNinja 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thefran 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ma99ie 16 points17 points18 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]themountaingoat 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]altmehere 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]InflatableTomato 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]ToraZalinto 34 points35 points36 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 28 points29 points30 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -15 points-14 points-13 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]A_Nihilist 18 points19 points20 points 14 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strange_Dragons 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]curious67 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Macbeth554 -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]A_Nihilist 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strange_Dragons 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strange_Dragons 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jobosno 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]jobosno 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Macbeth554 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Macbeth554 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HollowNinja 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]ghebert001 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Strange_Dragons 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Doctor_Loggins 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TrustMeIDoMath 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Celda 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eberkimer 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nlakes 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thenewfoundlanders 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Thenewfoundlanders 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

I am not really sure what you mean by sabotaging the movement. I only recently came across the issue of mens rights because of this subreddit, and I greatly appreciate the people who are genuinely interested in raising awareness for the cause. I am trying to find the motives for why people would be drawn to the cause. I have no interest in supporting a hostile reactionary group who despises anything feminism (emphasis on anything), and from what I can gather that is a very small percentage of this whole subreddit.

But when you say that by asking a few questions into the nature of the cause threatens you, that makes me raise an eyebrow. If we are here for equal rights, why would you be threatened by a few questions? I am not making not making personal jabs at anyone, from what I can tell, I am being quite civil.

[–]themountaingoat 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]altmehere 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thenewfoundlanders -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]thefran 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DrunkenPrayer 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]DanCorb 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hoodwink 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DanCorb -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh I know, lets call all atheists "brights" since we obviously have the fucking monopoly on intelectualism. While he is at it he can call all religious people "dye in the wool faith heads" in his book. The same book where he totally fucks up the understanding of the Kalam Cosmological argument and then pretends he has given an answer to it when he hasn't.

Richard Dawkins is a great biologist, but he should have stuck with that instead of writing that complete trash. Instead he actually embarrassed atheists everywhere with that shit by stepping outside his area of expertise. There are atheist philosophers out there and in concerns to philosophy you should be reading them instead of his crap.

Actually heres a list. Notice that Dawkins doesn't appear on it since he is a scientist and not a philosopher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Atheist_philosophers

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hello_This_Is_bear 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]disimcity 14 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Nah, I think Fry comes off as the smug prick when comparing these two quotations.

[–]ewilliam 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]disimcity 14 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but they are both against that. Fry says they're whining and appears to discredit the opinion immediately while Dawkins encourages discussion.

[–]ewilliam 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]disimcity 14 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not disagreeing at all. I think both quotations are great. I just think Fry sounds like more of the smug prick in this case.

[–]ewilliam 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]XSShadow2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]themountaingoat 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sharkictus 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tosstable 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePigman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Honztastic 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]coldvault -4 points-3 points-2 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tidlywank 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]coldvault 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Tidlywank 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ma99ie 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HollowNinja 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]8echos 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]coldvault 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rhapsody1447 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Eryemil1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UnamusedPunk1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]altmehere 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthOvious 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]desu_desu -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]HollowNinja -7 points-6 points-5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link