So I work at a restaurant...

memymineown · 2012-04-26T22:26:14+00:00

Get a recorder and a lawyer.

TerriChris · 2012-04-27T00:45:23+00:00

It's not discrimination when it happens to men. Male privilege you know.

If you feel lucky, contact Saul.

no1elsehasthisname · 2012-04-26T22:59:02+00:00

As a contrast to this

I used to work at a retirement community. When I started the servers were about 90% female and they were supposedly looking for male servers. I worked for there for about a year and a half and the demographics of the serving staff didn't change at all.

The chefs were all male. Servers mostly female. Managers were always married couples although I got the impression that the woman made all the decisions in each set of managers.

Me and the one other male server were usually given the job of taking out the trash when no one else was around to do it. (Note: this was never in any job description)

Overall I hated working there because as the lowest rung of the totem pole and one of the few men I had to do most of the "undesirable" work.

I wouldn't say I felt discriminated against but I wasn't happy about things either.

HexCodeHarry · 2012-04-26T21:58:15+00:00

Not sure about how good you are at your current position, but maybe your boss can't afford to lose a good cook, or would take too long to replace you. Although I do agree his reasoning was total bullshit and server positions should be available to anyone qualified.

rightsbot · 2012-04-26T21:16:19+00:00

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Thenewfoundlanders · 2012-04-26T21:57:55+00:00

Yeah im pretty sure that's not allowed. The reason places like hooters can get away with allowing only women to be servers is that being an attractive, usually busty female is part of the operational qualifications for the job. In other words, since the whole theme of hooters revolves around this sexual theme and the women, the servers have to be like that to work in that position.

Yours sounds different however. If he hasn't given you any reasons, you should consider making a case out of this.

fondueguy · 2012-04-27T01:29:03+00:00

It is very unacceptable.

Not only is your workplace segregated but your employer doesn't even try to balance things out. You guys do the harder mode dirty work and you make less!!!

Have any of the other guys noticed this?

rapiertwit · 2012-04-27T13:32:06+00:00

No, this isn't legal, unless they've carefully crafted an elaborate loophole for themselves like Hooters et. al. However, managers are right to be slightly more skeptical with a male applicant for wait staff, and slightly more skeptical with a female applicant for kitchen.

There's a high turnover rate that plagues the industry, so managers are keen to hire people who won't quit in frustration. Whether you work front or back of the house, basically boils down to which type of shit you'd prefer to put up with - and men and women have different tendencies in that regard.

Working in a commercial kitchen is hot, dirty, stressful work, and you're pretty much guaranteed a steady stream of minor burns and cuts. The servers are yelling at you for their orders when you fall behind, and they don't give a damn about your feelings because it's their tips on the line. Every great cook I've worked with had a ... stoic... personality. I've worked with great female cooks, but not a one of them was a dainty princess type.

Likewise, managers are more skeptical of males looking to serve, because you will occasionally come across the customer who takes advantage of "the customer is always right" to power-trip and make you eat shit. All service jobs put you in this position, but waiting tables is different in that your interaction with the customer can be 30 minutes to 2 hours long. These asshats can really get under your skin during that time. Also, men often get it worse from these people because they're trying to look big by belittling someone else - so the bigger the person they're belittling, the bigger they think it makes them look. Older men will sometimes try to goad you about working a "girl" job... I've had more men than I can count call for my attention by saying "excuse me, waitress!" (The correct response to this, by the way, is "yes ma'am?"). I've worked with excellent male servers (was one!), but not one of them was a prideful, touchy-ego type. If you get angry when someone disrespects you, this ain't the job for you.

Side note to anyone considering waiting tables: you DON'T have to be submissive to wait tables. In fact, the best servers are indomitable. If you bow and scrape and apologize, you won't fail at it, but you get better tips when you learn the right kind of confidence. The way I always explained to the new kids is like this: Picture a king's banquet hall. See the little servants scurrying around filling drinks and bringing food? Yeah, don't be those guys. Be the King. This is your hall, your castle, and these people are also kings and queens from other lands, and you are hosting them as honored guests in your hall. A real king would treat fellow kings with every courtesy and respect, even fill their cups himself... but there's no servility there. Work with that demeanor and your customers will have a better time, and your tips will improve, for reals.

caninestrychnine · 2012-04-27T07:51:22+00:00

(This isn't legal advice, but rather, instructions on how to best get legal advice.)

Anonymous post-law-school studying-for-the-bar person here. I got a B- in employment law. With that caveat:

Could be sex discrimination. The general rule is that this kind of thing is illegal. The exception is if gender is a Bona Fide Occupational Qualification (BFOQ). An example is being a Hooters server (there's a famous court case about this one).

Could be a fun case to follow up on, and who knows, maybe a lot of money involved, and even the opportunity to set a precedent for men everywhere.

There are three routes you can go, (1) suing them, (2) filing a complaint with your state bureau of labor, and (3) filing a complaint with the federal bureau of labor. Sometimes, the law will require you to "exhaust" the remedies of (2) and (3) before doing (1).

The easy route is to first talk to a qualified lawyer. Your state bar will have a free referral telephone line. Through that you can get a free or cheap initial consultation with a lawyer qualified in the right field. He/she will know which of 1, 2, 3, is the best route; what evidence or note-taking you need to do; what the judges and juries are like in your area; what steps you'd need to take to "preserve" your claim; whether a lawyer would want to take your case on contingency fee basis.

Good luck.

2012-04-27T07:59:45+00:00

Former manager of a bar, former bartender, former waiter here:

Are you presentable? Despite the fact that you work in back of house means nothing. Shave every day if you can, every other day at minimum.
Do you always show up on time? Do you ever stay late? Do you ever go the extra mile? These things are important.
In some states you have to have an alcohol certification, as well as a food handler certification; do you have it? If not, get it.
The final, and most important question... how long have you been working there? Yes, the newest, hottest chick, will probably have seniority over you. I understand this sucks.

I'm not going to say there isn't sexism [eg, you'd better be a good looking woman, and you're not,] in the hospitality industry. Despite that, there are things you can do. Be proactive. Don't be angry when you come to work. Don't be in a bad mood. Does this sound the same as a sales job? Probably, because humans like happy, fun people. Use this as a stepping stone to the next position. If you can't use that... then use your current experience as a stepping stone and reference to a better job. If you can't get a better job... why don't you have a good reference?

I know its sexist. Most women I've dealt with don't want to work long hours. They don't want to work early hours. They don't want to work doubles. They don't want to deal with confrontation. They don't want to do paperwork. This experience is in 5 different states.

My point is, I know its sexist, but you can do better than the kitchen if you want it.

[You just have to want it.]

2012-04-26T22:58:32+00:00

I do not know how often I get an attractive inept bartender who doesn't know wtf she is doing behind there. Many times I have also seen knowledgeable male bartenders getting plowed taking shots on the sly while working. Take from that as you will, but sexual discrimination is illegal unless it is part of the job function.

DisRuptive1 · 2012-04-27T07:41:45+00:00

Do you work at Hooters? They are classy (yet tacky).

VoodooIdol · 2012-04-27T18:57:34+00:00

Talk to your state labor board.

2012-04-27T19:29:11+00:00

There's a cafe (kind of Denny's-like, but privately owned, not a chain) down the street from my apartment, with a sign on the window that says "Now Hiring WAITRESSES!"

One of my best buddies (male) has experience as a server and is looking for a job, so I told him about it anyway, cause I thought... Surely that doesn't mean they'll only hire females, right? That just seems incredibly wrong to me.

That said... I don't think it's necessarily always wrong to hire people of a particular sex (although I haven't given it a ton of thought just yet). I mean, you wouldn't hire a male dancer to work at a (straight) gentleman's club. I know there are some spas for ladies which only hire females, I suppose to make it a more comfortable atmosphere for the customers. I'm not sure exactly where we should draw the line.

AnnArchist · 2012-04-28T23:35:58+00:00

Sue em, then you won't have to work to graduate college.

PartTimeBadman · 2012-04-26T21:58:27+00:00

The irony is that the management is discriminating both genders. Ask some of the women how they feel about bartending and serving being "for them only" and see where it gets you.

NiceGuysSTFU · 2012-04-26T23:08:10+00:00

That's weird. Any restaurant I've ever worked at had only men as bartenders and men and women as waitstaff. Back of the house, it kind of varied. The fast-casual, it was men-only, the nicer (but not fine dining) local restaurants, back of the house was men and women, but the chefs and sous chefs were always men.

Title	So I work at a restaurant...
Author	hughDfan
Upvotes	52
Comments	63
Date	April 26, 2012 9:14 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/su6ss/so_i_work_at_a_restaurant/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/so-i-work-at-a-restaurant.1023103 https://theredarchive.com/post/1023103

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