Toxic femininity

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-04-16T13:53:52+00:00

Exactly i would summarize it as dishonest manipulation.

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-04-16T14:24:32+00:00

Pretty good list. I'd add:

expecting to not be held accountable for bad behaviour / harm done to others

heeroena · 2022-04-16T15:19:36+00:00

there is no such thing as toxic masculinity just masculinity. This toxic masculinity was created by toxic feminists to justify their toxic behavior as being some kind of response to some 'perceived' unjust treatment. remember this is all based on 'feelings' and not facts.

Miss_Cherise_ · 2022-04-16T15:21:30+00:00

I'm a woman that lives in the US and feminist hate me because I tell them that men actually have it far worse than women in this country. There are actually people out there that still believe in a wage gap which has been proven wrong over and over again. The me too movement ruined many lives even when the claims were proven wrong because no matter what that follows you forever. I was told by feminists that I am a disgraced to women because I run my household, take care of the bills, the budgeting, grocery shopping, schooling for my children, making sure that my husband has coffee and dinner ready when he goes to work, and countless other things because he has a very physically demanding job with long hours, so why would I want him to do anything when he comes home when he can barely even stay awake in his chair? I think people in this country take their partners for granted especially women. My husband and I were both in the military we took our turns so I've seen both sides of that as well, and the dependas really are disgusting human beings, especially the ones that don't even have children and a job but you walk into their house and it's filthy and that's what their husbands have to come home to when they come home from deployment and then the women treat them like crap because they didn't realize that the military doesn't pay much. The suicide rate for men is four times more than that of women because they're expected to not show any emotion or talk about things so they bottle it up until they can't take it anymore and many of which are veterans who are afraid to speak up so that they don't get demasculated by the women in their lives. I see the comments in this subreddit and it discussed me the way that men are treated and you guys are the last things that I would ever want to be in this lifetime because of the climate of our current state. I don't see many women in here and if there are they're just waiting to just speak up against whatever you say, but I've seen it too many times and refuse to be part of their cult.

Ura_Ura2000 · 2022-04-16T19:44:16+00:00

add to those feeling of entitlement as well

2022-04-16T22:11:57+00:00

We only have rules for men, that's why.

ThePickleOfJustice · 2022-04-16T23:04:08+00:00

However we/society don't often discuss "toxic femininity".

We do. It's just call feminism.

saturdayshark · 2022-04-16T16:42:56+00:00

Most of children’s influences are women so who’s the real toxic one here?

2022-04-16T18:00:41+00:00

I think that this is a bit too broad. Though I view toxic masculinity and feminity in a kind of weird and more nuanced way.

I see it as taking those roles to a detrimental extreme. That's why there is some elements of it in the jealous boyfriend who threatens violence to guys who look at his girlfriend or guys who feel the need to provide material goods to the detriment of the other elements they need to bring to the household.

So toxicity feminity is an extension of that same line of thinking. It comes in the form of snowplow parenting and helicopter parents before that. The mind set of protecting their child from life and infantilizing them to the point of harming their long-term development and independence.

There are more ways that it could be expanded but these are the most superficial things that I think illustrate my point.

TheOnlyDijaini · 2022-04-16T19:40:42+00:00

"Toxic" in relation to anything whether it is masculinity, feminism, friends, family, or anything else, just refers to the fact that the individual who is "toxic" employs methods or verbiage that is harmful to to movement or relationship itself. Half of women that I know are staunchly anti-feminist while still being pro equal rights. I see toxic men on here daily whose anger and self righteousness sabotages everything that they are trying to correct. Parents whose adult kids aren't doing what they think they should and causing psychological harm. Friends that seem to pull you down rather than lift you up. All examples of toxic behavior.

extranotextra · 2022-04-16T20:04:21+00:00

Those things aren’t unfair expectations society puts on women. They’re just toxic. An example of toxic femininity would be mothers feeling guilty or losing their identity after having children because society says real women are perfect mothers.

Affectionate-Win-375 · 2022-04-16T20:38:08+00:00

I think both exist. They are just describing words for specific behaviors each gender exhibits which are toxic that relate to masculinity and femininity. For example, toxic masculinity happens when a man doesn't want to be remotely connected to femininity and avoids is like the plague as if it will make them gay. He will also see men with a feminine side or feminine interests as inferior men and may even make fun of them. That's the main example of toxic masculinity as far as I can tell, but I guess misogyny is another one.

Iceman_Hottie · 2022-04-16T21:29:12+00:00

I would add (none of them are exclusive to women :

nagging (a type of abusive behaviour)
letting emotions get the better of them. There is a time and a place for emotions, but it's not everywhere and not always. Sometimes you need to maintain that mental clarity to let the other person get some catharsis.
taking arguments from ideas to personal assaults. A subset of the previous point. This often ends up becoming an unmitigated disaster in milliseconds and does irreparable damage to that relationship.

Would be interested in thoughts on these.

getoffmyjohnson92 · 2022-04-16T22:48:12+00:00

feminism lies to women

If we have to describe toxic femininity then this article points out the main traits of that

throwawayddf · 2022-04-16T14:25:26+00:00

I am against defining toxic femininity and for not accepting toxic masculinity as a term. In defining toxic femininity we are implicitly saying that toxic masculinity is a thing, which it is not.

(to be clear I also think toxic femininity is not a thing, they both aren't)

Extension-Speed-402 · 2022-04-16T16:18:27+00:00

Thank god I finally get to talk about this, but not for the reasons you think. (I will be rephrasing a comment I did on an earlier post)

I'm going to redefine what we mean when we say "toxic femininity". But first let me address toxic masculinity. The problem with the term toxic masculinity has come to represent two exceedingly different things.

What we as men aimed to do with toxic masculinity was to challenge the status quo on what is expected of us. It was coined for our liberation. Many jaded people placed their paws on the term and essentially took it to mean "men are toxic".

So two conflicting definitions:

Challenge the status quo: Good!
Masculinity is inherently toxic: Bad!

The original definition was poetic. Men all around the world recognized these negative expectations placed on us and decided to fight against them using this term. This term was actively made by us. Women also actively fight against expectations placed on them too, except they use the term "Feminism".

Look, like any word, its meaning and definition directly depend on what people believe it to be. People misused (I cannot stress this enough) our term to discuss toxic men in their lives, which sure, can be a discussion (just like how we very much should discuss toxic women in our lives). But is it really a discussion to be had under this specific term? Something we worked so hard to try and finally fucking achieve?

This post is very much discussing ways "women are toxic". I completely frigging agree that people have gone overboard with "toxic masculinity" and it makes complete sense to discuss "women are toxic" under "toxic femininity" because it would give them a taste of their own medicine.

But please please please please please please please, don't forget, using "toxic femininity" too much in this context will reinforce the negative definition of "men are toxic" of our term. And I would love to not lose the one word we have coined to dismantle our suffering.

getoffmyjohnson92 · 2022-04-16T22:53:49+00:00

This comment will be labeled as toxic masculinity but majority of toxic feminists are unattractive, uneducated, overweight and emotionally unstable.

Locuralacura · 2022-04-16T16:21:47+00:00

Demanding and entitled Karen's are a product of toxic femininity.

Imagine having a house built for you, a car fixed for you, gardening done for you, and your only role is to determine the quality.

Imagine seeing a problem and instead of thinking, 'time to fix that' you think 'time to have some guy fix that.'

Feeling entitled to a house and car and feeling entitled to have someone else make and maintain those things.

Fean2616 · 2022-04-16T16:03:30+00:00

Ext do you meant etc? Or is it something else?

ScottishSam · 2022-04-16T21:03:13+00:00

The America we live in today is a result of a lack of masculinity as well as toxic female behavior, and those behaviors have nothing to do with femininity. Toxic masculinity only exists in clown world.

getoffmyjohnson92 · 2022-04-16T22:44:19+00:00

There’s no toxic anything. It all about mental health. Toxic masculinity isnt real. Universal law IS real.

Greg_W_Allan · 2022-04-17T07:08:39+00:00

fake cryingext.

My mother warned me whilst I was a teenager to always be wary of womens' tears.

2022-04-16T15:55:42+00:00

I think these are real issues regarding female behavior on a regular basis. Fir instance how many time have you heard of a female accuser saying someone raped them then finding out it never happened and she was either raging against the man or looking for a social scapegoat for her promiscuity being held legally culpable toher actions with a significant jail sentence.

getoffmyjohnson92 · 2022-04-16T22:46:56+00:00

-Eva Nournova

There is no patriarchy. There is a universal law, that being strong is beneficial. Sexually attractive women have an advantage over not so attractive women. Strong men have an advantage over weak men.

Men are more motivated by money and power, because it's their sexual attractiveness. That's why men make more and there are more men in power. Women prefer calm and less risky strategies of achieving reproductive success. Such as being feminine and sexually attractive in order to get a high quality man (who has a certain social status).

Women don't compete with men (imaging men vs. women boxing). The more they compete, the more pain they receive. Men are very violent and brutal against each other. Actually men have to suffer much more than women (that's why they are more tolerant to pain).

Feminism is trying to convince women to be like men? Or to emasculate men so women can compete with them? That wouldn't work. It's not sexually attractive to have a pathetic/weak/emasculated boyfriend/husband.

This is nature, it has always been this way. And always will be.

OfficialMitchell2000 · 2022-04-17T01:40:25+00:00

This is it. No such thing as toxicity being gendered, it’s about people using ‘toxic masculinity’ but getting toxic at the mere question of ‘toxic feminity.’ Another one is how some girls will say how other girls are pretty before their character, first thing some say is ‘she’s so pretty.’

DoppelGangHer88 · 2022-04-16T16:00:51+00:00

We live in such a gynocentric society that women have ultimate power over life and death itself and they cry misogyny when restricted from killing their own babies.

There's nothing more toxic than that.

Pristine_Tangelo_840 · 2022-04-17T01:52:51+00:00

As a feminist myself, I always found it weird that people don't think toxic femininity exists. It's everywhere. Girls bullying other girls for the attention if guys. "Not like other girls" girls. Women that see men only as money making machines etc. The list goes on

Chukshon · 2022-04-17T00:03:49+00:00

I know women who do discuss this and acknowledge this. Why those conversations don't happen around people that get defensive when speaking on patriarchy or toxic masculinity is because if thats where you go is this defensiveness you're not in a place that demonstrates being open or empathetic. It seems like you have beliefs that you do not want to interrogate for yourself. What harm would it bring to you to consider and think about who you use toxic masculinity?

gamerlololdude · 2022-04-16T16:56:06+00:00

Those are not feminine identified traits. I don’t understand where you concluded these from.

Those are toxic traits/things but they don’t fall into toxic femininity, if sociologists were to have this concept, because these are not feminine labeled concepts.

Even do a basic google search of masculine vs feminine traits. Neither of those fall there.

No wonder you guys are confused about toxic masculinity. I am at a loss with this sub. I don’t understand what is the point of this echo chamber of getting upset over things you don’t understand. You become that which you fear.

Sailbad_the_Sinner30 · 2022-04-16T15:15:22+00:00

Hmm. How are any of these behaviors particularly feminine? In the case of toxic masculinity, there are certain behaviors that are not only valenced and taught as “truly masculine”, they are massively more engaged in by men than by women. Rape comes to mind (and if the guy who once claimed that 80 percent of male rape victims were raped by men is here, I am still,waiting on a source for that.)

Just a heads up about rape. The best high N studies we have suggest that male rapists are also much more likely to be violent to men as well.

Azzcock · 2022-04-16T13:40:37+00:00

settle down champ

Lionheart27778 · 2022-04-16T14:08:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

groarmon · 2022-04-16T17:05:41+00:00

Toxic masculinity is nothing more than a low self esteem individual who try to seems like a confident one by conforming to what he think are gender stereotypes.

Toxic masculinity and feminity are actually really close. The main difference between man and woman stereotype here is the "weapon" of choice. A man will use intimidation and agression, a woman will use its empathy and social skills (because you know, stereotypes). So here we are.

To remain a competitive advantage over other, men use their force/power/intimidation to bully, women will destroy your reputation (like slut shaming other women, belittle men by... Questioning their masculinity)

Since expressing emotion, except anger, is too feminine for the toxic masculine one, the toxic feminity should the exact opposite. So the woman will use and abuse emotions to the point of outrageous victimization to inspire pity (nobody will argue that it don't works isn't it?)

To reassure himself, the man will display it's social status by whatever mean (since women are masters of social status) basically by flaunting money in assets like big cars or whatever, to lure any woman (yeah you know, having a lot of women is good for masculinity).

To reassure herself, the woman will display her value by whatever mean (since men are masters of "power" they use to intimidate others) basically by being sexually promiscuous (like short clothes, makeup or whatever) to be a good assets for the man she target (yeah you know, it's socially acceptable to only have one partner for a good woman, but you can hide it so you can leech even more "power")

Finally, if a good man is accountable for everything he do he can't do harm since he's perfect, he will deny anything he did if it contradict his masculinity. A good woman is basically an innocent child unable to do any harm, toxic feminity play on that. They are so powerless, so frail, how could they hit/rape/abuse you ?

biggerarmsthanyou · 2022-04-17T04:30:44+00:00

All the things you mentioned, plus the fact they will deny it and be hypocritical about it if you do the same thing as a guy.

zeerust2000 · 2022-04-17T07:15:23+00:00

Reputation destruction. Spreading lies, mistruths, gossip, etc. about someone to ruin or damage their reputation.

LinkCandid6104 · 2022-04-17T12:46:13+00:00

ABUSING MEN AND CHILDREN AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT BY CRYING AND FLIPPING THE STORY AROUND ON THE PEOPLE TRYING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES KNOWING THE COURT SYSTEM AND POLICE WILL BELIEVE U OVER UR VICTIM LIKE MY MOTHER DID TO EVERYONE SHE ABUSED OR AMBER HEARD IS DOING TO JOHNNY DEPP

LinkCandid6104 · 2022-04-17T12:46:35+00:00

LYING ABOUT RAPE TO GET REVENGE

Title	Toxic femininity
Author	Lionheart27778
Upvotes	277
Comments	154
Date	April 16, 2022 1:38 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/u4y08u/toxic_femininity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/toxic-femininity.1112444 https://theredarchive.com/post/1112444

Comments