Trans Disclosure(Post-Op)[MTF, in this case]

Ma99ie · 2011-09-26T04:49:52+00:00

First of all, the vast majority of MTF will never have this problem. Of course people should disclose. By the time you are starting to get serious with someone, the probability is that huge amounts of personal information have been exchanged. Where you went to college, where you were born, what kind of job you have, the make up of your family, what your future plans are...in other words, people tell the stories of themselves over the course of courtship. To leave out, hey, I once had a penis, or, I have a beard but no penis, it's a lie by omission.

Also, many people don't buy into being able to change your sex. Therefore, they are going to view relations with you as gay.

Whisper · 2011-09-26T05:55:56+00:00

Logically, if they are a woman, then they aren't a threat to their/your precious heterosexuality,

What a load of condescending crap.

People have a right to control their own sex lives without having to justify themselves to you (or too anyone else who speaks to them with such unbridled contempt).

Maybe they do want children. Maybe they have a hangup. Maybe they have a different definition of "woman" than you do.

Maybe they have a phobia of lying, manipulative sociopaths.

spagma · 2011-09-26T14:28:05+00:00

So what you are saying is its OK for the transgendered to assume that nobody they will be having sex with needs to know, or cares, but its not ok for men to assume the woman they will be having sex with is actually a woman and always has been.

Retaining your gender is the norm, changing your gender is not. It is far more logical to assume the person was born with the gender and genitals they appear to have than it is for the transgendered to assume it doesn't matter.

Besides, if it really doesn't matter then disclosure wont hurt, if it does matter, it could save their life. If someone has a problem with it and finds out mid intercourse, it could have disastrous repercussions.

If the transgendered want people to respect their sexual identity and preference, then they need to respect other peoples sexual identity and preference.

pcarvious · 2011-09-26T07:59:15+00:00

I think context matters a lot here.

One night stands are different creatures than long term relationships. To me, I'm not likely to know the person well enough or long enough after a single night of sex to really care. However, if I enter into a long term relationship with someone and we're sexually active, I would want to know their history.

There is a definite risk for the trans individual in this situation, both of physical recourse and social recourse. In most cases I don't see this being an issue.

Deviancy from sexual norms, is to me something that's healthy, I don't see why deviancy from gender norms should be seen as a huge issue.

Sarstan · 2011-09-26T08:53:33+00:00

Yes, they should disclose this fact to someone they're dating.

Logically, if they are a woman, then they aren't a threat to their/your precious heterosexuality, which means that's not an issue.

Damn those stuck up straight people. What happened to that idea being a "born with it" issue? A straight man can't choose to be unhappy with a post op, can he?

If it's a "they can't have children" issue, then should ciswomen who are sterile have to notify potential partners prior to dating/sex?

Many don't know they're sterile since you don't check unless you haven't gotten pregnant and are concerned usually. In that case, most women do disclose and it should be disclosed.

If it's an honesty issue, then why don't you go tell everyone your life story prior to it.

Part of dating is learning about someone's past. My wife knows about some fucked up shit I did/had done to me before we met. She knew this before we got married. Just like I knew a good chunk of her history as well. If you're scared of telling someone about something in your past because of their reaction, doesn't that tell you that it's wrong to hide it?

Honestly you seem like you're hung up on your own issues.

2011-09-26T10:32:38+00:00

Because MTF isn't the same gender as F. You have a different body, a different personal history, a different genome, a different set of emotional issues. One or more of these things probably matters to someone whom you are dating.

2011-09-26T18:12:11+00:00

Logically, if they are a woman, then they aren't a threat to their/your precious heterosexuality, which means that's not an issue.

Not necessarily. You seem to be looking at this from "most men want to have sex with women." Maybe it would be better to look at it as "most males want to have sex with females." In this case, sure MtF people may identify as women, and logically be women, but they still wouldn't fit a biological classification of female.

Celda · 2011-09-26T05:04:05+00:00

Simple question, it's wrong to deceive someone into thinking you are X (Christian, vegetarian, a doctor) when you are not X for the purpose of having sex with them.

That's simply a fact to any one who isn't a selfish piece of shit.

Transgendered people are transgendered, that's a fact.

A transgendered person who doesn't tell the other person they are trans is deceiving that person into thinking they are not transgendered, that is also a fact.

If the trans person then has sex with the other person, then they are deceiving the other person in order to have sex with them. That is also a fact.

Put the facts together.

GoatBased · 2011-09-26T07:04:37+00:00

You should disclose this because most men don't set out intending to sleep with a transexual. Maybe in the future men won't care, and in that case you wouldn't need to disclose it, but because you're sleeping with someone under false pretenses you should disclose it.

Sounds crazy, right? Except, if you've got an identical twin, and you sleep with your identical twin's significant other under the pretense of being your twin, you're guilty of fraud and rape -- even though the person at the time willingly engaged in intercourse with the fraudulent party. It's because the victim wasn't aware of the material facts that a crime was committed. Having sex with a guy who thinks you're a woman (not just that you have a vagina) is having sex under false pretenses.

I don't think it's homophobia if you've no longer got a penis, but it is unsettling from the sheer amount of crazy that must be going on in your head. It's not entirely logical, outside of the desire to reproduce and the fact that most transexuals carry with them a metric ass-ton of baggage. However, like you need to disclose facts about a murder or suicide in a home you sell, you should disclose the fact that you're not actually a woman. I bring that up because it's another instance where superstition and irrational thinking requires disclosure about something that really shouldn't matter.

Notes:

Isn't it a pretty big hint when you can't self-lubricate and have to grab a tube of astroglide, or has science solved that problem for you?
I'm aware of all of the logic behind separating gender from sex, and I think it's a load of crap. The fact that you feel like you're a woman, or have taken on a woman's role in society, or have female genitalia doesn't change how I characterize you.

p.s. I like your username.

Kill_The_Rich · 2011-09-26T05:26:50+00:00

Some men wouldn't consent to sex if they knew it was with a transwoman. Sometimes it's simply a matter of homophobia, but it could also be rooted in an innate desire to reproduce (there needs to be a term for this, I would say "cissexual", but that seems to be nearly synonymous with "cisgendered"). That being said, the transgendered (especially transwomen) have to be especially cautious given the abnormally high possibility of violence they could face from bigots.

Ideally it wouldn't be an issue if everyone only ever slept with people they knew well...but it's 2011, not 1890 so that's a completely unrealistic expectation. It's a complicated issue, and neither side is really wrong...putting that aside, I think we need to consider which causes more harm and go with whichever option is least harmful. If a man sleeps with a transwoman and he wouldn't have had he known she was trans, what is the possible harm? None, unless he finds out that she was trans...and even then it's simply a matter of hurt feelings (i.e. in extreme cases it could result in an identity crisis...but there's no physical harm). If a transwoman discloses her status to a potential partner who would take issue with that (for whatever reason), what's the possible harm? She could be subjected to violence, or even murder. Because the potential for harm is much greater on her end, it's better for her to remain silent on said issue than it is for her to bring it up. However, if it's not casual sex (i.e. it's someone they know well enough), then the possibility of violence is significantly reduced and they probably should inform their partner (which seems likely enough that it shouldn't need to be addressed here...but I'm preempting the traditionalists).

It's not fair, but it seems it has to be this way. If you really are that concerned about avoiding transwomen, then you should only sleep with women that you know well. It's not rape. If a person only wanted to sleep with people who were Jewish, but they slept with a Palestinian who was "passing", that wouldn't (and shouldn't) be rape. I realize courts in Israel have prosecuted Palestinians for exactly that...but Israel is a fucked up country with fucked up courts.

BarryOgg · 2011-09-26T09:43:49+00:00

I think this is the best take on this subject I've seen.

2011-09-26T08:25:15+00:00

then they aren't a threat to their/your precious heterosexuality

Right off the bad your being condescending. You're obviously not here to have a reasonable discussion and get real answers to you question. You're just another idiot who wants to stir shit up. Bugger off.

So, I've never really gotten exactly why people hold this view that they should disclose

Probably because you insult them before you ask. Maybe if you were actually interested in listening and stopped being a dick about it you would learn something asshole.

mymmelinen · 2011-09-26T08:35:50+00:00

I don't think there's a need to disclose your original sex before casual sex. If someone engages in casual sex, they are knowingly having sex with someone they don't know very much about. It might turn out that one's partner is a vegetarian, is an atheist, has cheated in their past, has had an abortion, has a criminal record, doesn't like lettuce or is trans. all of these might be things which, had one known, would have put one off the encounter. But that's the risk of casual sex.

If you are in a relationship in someone, there's an expectation that you share your past with your partner.

Scott2508 · 2011-09-26T10:29:48+00:00

ok , 1 is a matter of choice, while its a trans choice to live the life they decide , they knowingly associate themselves to terms like transgendered, transexual etc etc no matter the spin on it someone who defines themselves as something different to being a woman in themselves should as a matter of respect to potential partners disclose that fact. Second, we are at a point where we are becoming more accepting as a world however for some it would still be a deal breaker, and that again is a matter of respect, if you identify yourself as trans and you feel someone would not want to be intimate for that reason then you owe it to them, and to yourself to disclose, you like everyone else deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you, the real you . And also , contrary to some of the playas around, quite often a man can be looking for something more, and that can involve kids which is something that sadly cant happen which again is another reason for truth .

Anyone who can hide something of importance to be honest isnt someone id want in my life.

2011-09-26T10:39:30+00:00

Murky area really, I can see both sides. One is that non-nondisclosure to someone who otherwise wouldn't have slept with could be seen as form of rape, a man was charged with rape for letting a jewish woman think he was jewish when he was muslim, some people object to aspects of PUA tricks being deceptive ... and at the same time I can totally understand a trans person feeling that disclosure shouldnt matter in the first place.

ghebert001 · 2011-09-26T13:34:55+00:00

Because who you were is just as much a part of who you are. If you were dating someone with a criminal history, you would want to know about it and the circumstances right? Even though they may not be a criminal any more, it's still something important in that person's life that had a hand in making that person who they are today. If the person they are dating doesn't know their partner used to be the same gender as they are and that TG individual chooses never to disclose that information, then it's lying by omission and their partner is going to be in a relationship, possibly want to marry someone where the relationship itself is built on a lie. Maybe some people wouldn't care, but to those that do, they deserve to know so they can decide for themselves if this person is really what they want.

Underfolder · 2011-09-26T23:44:25+00:00

It's a question of sexual preference. People should have the right to love and be attracted to whom ever they choose. It's a personal matter than only the person in question can answer. Some men may not find blonds attractive. Or short women. Or effeminate men. It's their personal choice.

One's sex is a very central element of sexuality. While some people are bisexual or pansexual, a majority of people are attracted only to a certain sex. Straight men discriminate against gay men in that they do not find them appealing for sex. This is not bigotry or homophobia because the question of sexual preference is specifically the one being questioned.

If a person is not attracted to transsexuals, that is their personal preference. It is no more right or wrong than being attracted to men or women, blonds or brunettes, etc. Trans people should be able to expect full acceptance of who they are by society. Some will view them as their identifying sex. Others will view them as their biological sex. It's only fair to understand that those who view them as their biological sex may not be interested in sexual or romantic interaction.

In a civilized society, people respect each others personal preferences on identity and sexuality. So, yes, a trans person should disclose this. If the person they are with doesn't mind, then there's nothing wrong with that. If the person does mind, then both can go on their way, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Scott2508 · 2011-09-26T10:21:09+00:00

ok this is something that if you do a search for you will find a thread on this previously , lets not stoke the fire.

brunt2 · 2011-09-26T15:00:59+00:00

It's less risky to disclose imo. But put it this way: Wouldn't it be better psychologically if the guy accepted the trans person after they disclosed?

ManofToast · 2011-10-11T20:46:30+00:00

Why NOT disclose it? Many people feel that such things being kept in secret mean you are hiding something(s). I would be more willing to support an openly gay/trans/bi individual than secretive one.

GiskardReventlov · 2011-09-26T08:07:32+00:00

I don't think a transperson should have to disclose that aspect of themselves to a suitor. If the other person wants to know, they should ask. The law is not made for your personal tastes and preferences, regardless of whether you are in the majority. If the transperson lies, then they're a douchbag, but it shouldn't be illegal above any general laws of "rape" by deception.

Demonspawn · 2011-09-26T15:01:20+00:00

Since Chaz is now a “man,” Chaz is no longer a lesbian, and her longtime oyster-gobbling partner Jennifer Elia has suddenly ceased to be a dyke and is now a heterosexual woman, and anyone who does not accept this charade at face value is automatically a confused bigot.

While a bit harsh, that pretty much sums up reality on the subject.

getthefuckoutofhere · 2011-09-26T08:06:12+00:00

Logically, if they are a woman

but they're not you fucking dullard.

tybrinley · 2011-11-02T16:22:20+00:00

The definitely should inform their potential partner about their gender history. I would never have sex with a post-op transexual, period. To me, that's still a man there.

So I just found out that the girl I hooked-up and had sex with last week is actually a post-op. It's killing me, you can't begin to imagine what i'm going through.

winfred · 2011-09-26T11:01:52+00:00

If a cis male doesn't want to sleep with a trans woman because she's trans, I doubt she'd still want to sleep with him either.

So if the man's that opposed to sleeping with a trans woman, even though he cannot tell the difference in most cases and assumes all women he sleeps with are cis unless told otherwise, why not ask? What's the problem there?

If he had, say, an illogical hatred of vegetarians or something and refused to sleep with them, would it not be sensible to ask all women he sleeps with if they are vegetarian first? Instead of just assuming that no women are vegetarian and becoming enraged when he finds out that he has slept with one without asking?

carchamp1 · 2011-09-26T12:22:30+00:00

not r/mr

NotTheHumanTornado · 2011-09-26T04:38:22+00:00

bro the easiest way to understand this is that r/mr subscribers hate anything with a vagina, artificially constructed or no.

Now the reason for this is complex. It derives from their own impotent self-loathing combined with the rightful disgust felt by any woman who gazes upon them.

Title	Trans Disclosure(Post-Op)[MTF, in this case]
Author	treybuchet
Upvotes	3
Comments	74
Date	September 26, 2011 4:19 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/kri2u/trans_disclosurepostopmtf_in_this_case/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/trans-disclosurepost-opmtf-in-this-case.1034097 https://theredarchive.com/post/1034097

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