Should deception count as rape?

sublimemongrel · 2016-06-29T11:43:19+00:00

I don't think lying should be equivalent to rape, however the guy who tagged in another dude without his girlfriend's consent should be charged with some criminal offense. She consented to sex with her boyfriend, he basically let her get raped without her knowledge. Filming someone without their consent should also be illegal.

shoup88 · 2016-06-29T12:56:02+00:00

For the most part, this law applies to cases where a person has impersonated your current sex partner, like your BIL sneaking into your house at night pretending to be your husband in the dark. In those cases, I do believe that should be considered rape.

Interversity · 2016-06-29T06:41:36+00:00

No, it should not count as rape. The logical extension of making such deceptions illegal/counting as rape is that makeup, push-up bras, plastic surgery, etc. would all be 'deception' and thus rape as well. Obviously absurd and impossible to enforce.

That case with the strap on was not a man, it was a woman posing as a man. Kind of fucked up, but I still wouldn't be comfortable classing it as rape.

kick6 · 2016-06-29T15:14:13+00:00

deception isn't rape, but if we're stupid enough as a society to create laws like this...

pushup bras
corsets
spanxs
hair extensions
breast implants
tummy tucks
facelifts
botox
nose jobs

All deceptions.

I'm sure the only "deception" they care about is men deceiving women, though.

sublimemongrel · 2016-06-29T14:47:58+00:00

Some of these laws are a reaction to the transgendered movement IIRC.

The case in the link of the man posing as a doctor to sexually assault a woman should be sexual assault. The picture I have in my mind is a man pretending to be an OB and giving an exam. That seems like a pretty clear cut case of assault.

ABC_Florida · 2016-06-29T15:24:59+00:00

You're not giving very good examples, OP. Try using some from the article you're linking to instead of "some guy in Israel".

Legislators cited a case in western Massachusetts in which a woman consented to intercourse with her boyfriend's brother because he claimed to be the woman's boyfriend.

Yeah, that's rape.

In another case of "fraud" rape, a lab technician posed as a medical doctor and sexually assaulted a woman.

Again, this is clearly rape.

"What this bill makes clear is that you cannot deceive or defraud a victim into saying yes."

Not quite sure why this is considered a bad thing. It closes a loophole that exists within the current law.

DaphneDK · 2016-06-29T07:42:31+00:00

There is also another case in Israel of a man claiming to be a neurosurgeon to be deemed more attractive to a woman so she will want to have sex with him.

There was also a case in Israel of a Palestenian boy pretending to be Jewish, to fuck Jewish girls. I read of a guy who'd pretend to be Douglas Adams (of Hitchkihers Guide fame) to fuck chicks. And of course there was the old guy in France who preteded to be a hot stud so girls let him fuck them blindfolded.

People just need to do their due diligence and not jump on the first dick in sight.

funchy · 2016-06-29T15:23:59+00:00

Think of it this way:

Youre a hetrosexual guy. You see a nice looking woman at a bar. The two of you decide to go back to your place for some fun. You start to take off her dress to discover she is actually a man. Did you consent to sex with a man when you invited that person to your bed?

Wouldn't you be a little upset to find someone used trickery to get sex from you?

What if that person used a dark room, sweet talk, and a few drinks to get you turned on. You have sex. Later you turn the lights on and look to see that "woman" has a penis. Did he violate your consent?

[deleted] · 2016-06-29T15:49:27+00:00

Only in very limited cases where say the person impersonated the victim's partner for example.

It would be absolutely hilarious seeing right-wing bigots drag transgendered people to court for rape. Or men suing their wives after finding about her sordid past she denied when they got together. It would fuck feminists so badly.

Noxin__Nixon · 2016-06-29T06:55:11+00:00

Yes and no, lying about your job isn't rape by deception, however I'd consider pretending to be someone's boyfriend as Julio Morales did to be rape by fraud.

statsfodder · 2016-06-29T09:27:42+00:00

Having sex with a woman isn't consenting to have a child.. can we deal with that as well??

Fraudulent consent would also need to encompass divorce rape? Lying about your feelings and intentions to marry a guy soley for his wealth would need to become punishable.

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SmurfESmurferson · 2016-06-29T13:36:59+00:00

Depends on the situation. In the two examples you gave, no, not rape.

The example of the woman who pretended to be a man in order to have sex with women (using a strap-on after blindfolding them)? Yeah, something that extreme I would count as at least sexual assault.

Noxin__Nixon · 2016-06-29T16:01:27+00:00

This is just dumb. It could work in reverse too. Women wears a padded bra would be rape by these definitions

[deleted] · 2016-06-29T17:30:55+00:00

Yes please! And then make sure to charge women who lie about their sexual past too! Deception is rape, then lying about past is rape or perjury too!

So many stories about lying about N-count or what acts they did with their exes etc. Please create a precedent to make those things illegal. Ahaha it's gonna be so good.

rulenumber303 · 2016-06-29T17:46:02+00:00

If I wrote the laws it would definitely be seen as rape if you are stealing/borrowing someone else's own unique identity in order to gain consent. I would also give the person whose identity was misused without consent some sort of law to give them justice... they haven't been raped but they have been the victim of a crime that involves them in the sex life of others without their consent. It is one thing to pretend to be a neurosurgeon and quite another to pretend to be a specific neurosurgeon and generate a string of exlovers (and possibly cheated on partners of those exlovers... or even kids who have paternity issues) out there who may land on that specific neurosurgeon's doorstep.

648262 · 2016-06-29T22:11:30+00:00

I think it should, and then at the same time we should increase the spectrum of penalty for raping someone from "that's harmless, you're free to go" to "you need to die".

[deleted] · 2016-06-30T15:52:14+00:00

Are fake tits, botox, make-up and collagen rape?

civilsaint · 2016-06-29T12:04:16+00:00

First of all, we need to break the word 'rape' up into many different terms to fit the plethora of acts that it currently entails. The word 'rape' should used when force or threats are used. Questions of consent where no force or threats are used should be classified like a speeding violation and handled alongside traffic court. This would be efficient because most of these cases probably involve a DUI, so they could just prosecute both at once. /s

Deception cannot be considered rape. First of all, there is no way to prove or enforce it in most situations. It is even worse than Affirmative Consent.

If a girl lies about being on the pill and gets pregnant, she can be charged as a rapist. BUT...what if she didn't lie and the guy just wants to get out of being a dad? Oh, the courtroom drama the judges will have to deal with.

The reality is that people lie a lot in relationships. Courts can't mediate that. Lying is often subjective. A woman may tell a wealthy, unattractive guy that he looks good, and how are courts to prove she's lying to get his money?

Lying is shitty, but it isn't illegal.

Five_Decades · 2016-06-29T12:42:11+00:00

Only if women who wear makeup and Spanx, or pretend to have less crazy personalities early in the relationship are also charged with rape. Those women are intentionally deceptive and trying to lie to give the impression they have a higher smv via deception.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-06-29T14:32:09+00:00

Do you believe deception, or trickery should violate consent, and be treated by the law as such? Why or why not?

I don't see how we could possibly enforce that. It'd lead to more he said/she said scenarios.

I think we do ourselves and victims a disservice when we allow the concept of 'rape' to undergo definition creep. Rape is the removal or denial of a persons sexual agency. There are a lot of terribly sh*tty things a person can do in their sex life, but not all of them are rape.

Transmigratory · 2016-06-29T14:37:52+00:00

These laws make it sound like women (the section of the population in mind when making these laws are stupid).

Technically you're saying it is rape when a woman decided to sleep with a guy because she believed he was a secret agent who in his spare time stops cyber terrorists while using all sorts of gadgets.

Title	Should deception count as rape?
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	6
Comments	174
Date	June 29, 2016 6:33 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4qe559/should_deception_count_as_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/should-deception-count-as-rape.274229 https://theredarchive.com/post/274229

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