TRP "date rape" post causes some internal controversy. What does PPD Think?

lokidemon731 · 2014-03-22T19:21:55+00:00

You could get lucky and find one that is a light weight.

What does this mean? Is it lucky because then you have to spend less effort tricking her into drinking more than you because she'll be drunk enough after 1-2 drinks? Or is it lucky because after 3 drinks she'll be wasted? The second is more concerning, but I'm going to operate off the assumption that it's the first because it comes right after the sentence saying that I assume means "don't get her too drunk".

Well, to me this is nothing new. It's the usual "you can't get sex unless you use a lot of trickery and manipulation". It's not even about being the best guy or pushing the right buttons, it's manipulating a person into artificially letting down their defenses. I think it's gross and poor strategy personally and a little pathetic. I mean, you can't get someone to sleep with you without impairing their judgement? That doesn't seem very alpha.

She was buzzing at the end, I was in complete control.

The whole power-trip and need for control over women is also nothing new.

It's not like you're pouring the alcohol down her throat forcefully.

No, but it is using manipulation to encourage her to drink more. Presumably she knows her limits and won't go over them, but that's a huge presumption. If she'd get drunk on her own, why all this careful construction of a situation to get her drunk? It's also amusing that directly after this user says "get her drunk"--assuming all agency and declaring that you are doing something to her--he denies agency and says it's all her choice.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2014-03-22T17:29:59+00:00

Offering to fill up her drink isn't so bad.

It's the "and then you're in complete control" bit that makes it awful.

That shows it's a deliberate effort to get her drunk (while remaining sober) so you can take advantage of her.

Both of you getting hammered together and making a mutual decision one of you later regrets is one thing.

But this is quite clearly deliberate and manipulative.

And frankly a bit pathetic.

BabeOfBlasphemy · 2014-03-23T00:34:29+00:00

I've read through this thread and I'm just left flabbergasted that so many guys could even defend this shit. I hit "the wall", plus I'm an immigrant. So I THOUGHT I was pretty old fashioned compared to many blue pills but this shit really takes the cake..

It scares me, frankly. In my day guys wanted to be men. They were excited to grow up, get an apprenticeship, marry a good woman, have some kids, and just live a peaceful life with a little meaning, accomplishment and fun. They joined unions to help bring more democracy to the work place. They lead the boy scouts once a month to teach kids to tie knots and build a fire. They coached little league, had an occasional beer after leaving the foundry with their best buddies.

As I read this shit and think of the men i looked up to in my neighborhood. All I can think is: wtf is wrong with peopke today? How could the sons of the men i knew turn out this fucking gross? Old mr marty down the street would kick ypur ass if be seen you harass a girl. Then hed take you in the garage and teach you to fix a car. Big Roger the war vet down the street paid boys to collect golf balls, hed make ya lemonade and give you war stories. These were guys wjo watched out for their neighborhood, loved their wives, took care of everyone's kids.. They were MEN.

They were not laying in the underwear playing video games and bitching about " spinning plates". They were happy with one decent girl, they werent pigs who thought about banging their neighbor's daughters.

I'm so glad to be over the "wall". Because I'd rather die than to have this pathetic excuse of a dating pool....

[deleted] · 2014-03-22T17:32:02+00:00

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[deleted] · 2014-03-22T17:00:01+00:00

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[deleted] · 2014-03-23T08:26:32+00:00

I found this whole ordeal to be entertaining. Not too long ago endorsed poster /u/GayLubeOil made a comment about the possibility of his friend being raped while drunk. The word "rapey" was by another poster and even upvoted, yet no mod deleted his post. Here's the post if you are interested

GuildedCasket · 2014-03-22T18:45:43+00:00

It could technically be rape because there is a legal definition in many places that says having sex with someone who is intoxicated or has impaired judgement is rape. However, some states, like Texas, have a "without the other person's knowledge" clause. So, depending on the state you're in, it may or may not be rape.

However, it is shady as hell and seems like it'd be more likely to be a beta, blue pill way of getting into a woman's pants. If you're holding frame and doing everything RP tells you to do, then she should want to sleep with you anyway. Isn't it the pathetic betas who need extra help? Seems like many people in the RP sub would agree. And then, of course, BP would probably just consider it flat out unethical because he is obviously doing it with the intent of manipulating her into doing something he thinks she wouldn't do otherwise, impairing her judgement, reducing her ability to consent in her natural state.

Either pill you take, it's sleazy as all get out.

sh1v · 2014-03-24T10:43:01+00:00

What the fuck is with TRP lately? IT feels like it's turning into White Knighting. Fuck that shit, get her drunk, fuck her, fuck her some more. It's not like you're pouring the alcohol down her throat forcefully.

I do not condone this. You might not be pouring alcohol down someone's throat forcefully, but anyone who has gotten seriously drunk with someone else can attest, there's a certain point beyond which you just can't think straight. And when they reach that point, if you do go on and fuck them you'd better have some solid reasoning for why it's ok. If they're already in a relationship with you, or they're enthusiastic about it, you're probably in the clear, but if they're some naive fun-chasing chick who got drunk cause YOLO and is now just lying there tossing and turning, half blacked out and you stick your dick in regardless, pretty sure you're a rapist there bro.

That being said, I doubt that's the scenario the OP had envisioned, but the way he's talking you never know.

[deleted] · 2014-03-24T15:46:49+00:00

I read this the other day, didn't really sit right with me. This isn't RP knowledge, this is frat boy 101. I'm surprised he didn't suggest one slips her a rufie .

quickquestionfor · 2014-03-22T14:45:34+00:00

As a mod this is one hell of a leading post and leading questions. You out of anyone should be following the rules better. Using date rape right in the title? Seriously? Then with your description of it as "rapey". Stop right there. Something is or is not rape. It can't be just kinda rape. If it is in that grey area there are other words for it like sexual harassment and etc. Cut that shit out and stop using tumblr adjectives that bastardize actual real meaningful words and distort the whole tone of the discourse. You can use creepy or something if you feel your personal need to shame something is that great. Also why did you put drinks in quotes? Insinuating date rape again??? oh how impartial you are and non-leading in this post. Please edit and re-post immediately

Secondly women have agency yes? He states that he is referring to first couple of dates and is in a public bar in a date setting. I'm sure she can say no and/or just not drink that drink at any time. Alcohol lowers inhibition and everyone knows that. Some people need/want to use that when meeting new people and I think that is their decision to make as consenting adults. 2-3 drinks in 2 hours is a lot for a woman I agree. So she knows her own alcohol boundaries better than anyone and that is her decision to make again.

The only grey area this post touches on is where if she decides to drink to the extent that consent became impossible to rationally make. I'm sure here in PPD we have discussed alcohol impairing consent multiple times so this would just be the standard rehash

SpaceWhiskey · 2014-03-22T15:59:40+00:00

So let's assume that instead of going back to his place, she decides to start a fight at the bar or drive home drunk.

How culpable is this guy for her actions?

roe_ · 2014-03-22T19:38:17+00:00

I'm only willing to give this one a "slightly sleazy" rating.

It's not "rapey" as there's no non-consent involved, provided the woman isn't actually passed out from drinking.

2-3 "drinks" over an hour or so is a lot for a women. If she's drinking martinis, 3 of those over the course of two hours would give her a BAC of 0.25 to 0.30. That's flat out drunk.

The onus is on women, like all responsible adults who enjoy alcohol, to know their own limits and the effect alcohol has on them, and act accordingly.

I would say, however, personally, if a woman had to be drunk to fuck me, I wouldn't want to.

rulenumber303 · 2014-03-23T23:25:04+00:00

Guys have been doing this like forever, even my grandmother who was born around 1900 knew the behavior. If you know they do it (and you should, if your mother has done her job raising you to take care of number 1) then it is fairly easy to either refuse their drinks or lean into it, depending on your desires.

Also, fair's fair, if you want to wander off to the bathroom with one of those drinks and strain most of it down the toilet, then you can do that too, it bypasses yourliver and kidneys and goes straight to its final destination. Icebuckets and empty glasses on the bar are fair game as well. Bit assholish to empty it into a plant though. A sudden announcement that you feel vomity and must take a taxi home can also be useful. I personally draw the line at keeping a jar in your handbag and filling it up with booze to take home (this works real well if you can sit at a table... just open it in your lap and pour... so I'm told) but maybe you don't and if you don't draw the line there I'm not going to argue, girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do and vodka-lime and lemon tastes OK a day later.

edited to add: And doesn't everyone eat at least a salad or a healthfood bar before they go on a first date, not only because of the alcohol issue but also in case they get a guy who thinks fish and chips is a balanced meal? Has no-one but me had this explained to them by their mother?

Aerobus · 2014-03-26T20:45:22+00:00

Here's what I believe: If she is voluntarily consuming the alcohol by herself, you're not forcing her to do anything. Therefore, you are not taking advantage of her.

When it comes time for sex, if she consents, its consensual. If she doesn't, its rape. The fact that her drinking increases the likelihood that she will consent to sex is simply a tactic that can be exploited by men. Encouraging her to drink (aka peer pressure) isn't rape. It's her fault if she does not have self-control and cannot take control of the situation and leave the bar.

2-3 "drinks" over an hour or so is a lot for a women. If she's drinking martinis, 3 of those over the course of two hours would give her a BAC of 0.25 to 0.30. That's flat out drunk. Even if it's wine, she's going to be around .10 to .11, which is the point at which speech is slurred and good judgement goes out the window.

Women need to know this. 99.99999% Men out there aren't going to shove these drinks down her throat. She's going to drink it herself. It's her fault for putting herself in a dangerous situation. Of course, if she gets raped, then the rapist needs to be punished, but don't come telling me to have 100% sympathy for the girl because she is being utterly naive if she believes that no men will try to take advantage of her when she's drunk. Women need to be careful.

SpaceWhiskey · 2014-03-22T21:06:49+00:00

ITT: All men are rapists and all women have no control of their actions.

CFRProflcopter · 2014-03-22T19:58:42+00:00

Maybe they should set a legal limit for BAC that a woman cannot consent beyond, and therefore loses agency. We could all install those breathalyzer machines in every apartment and house, request her consent, then have her blow into the machine and provide a fingerprint ID that she performed the test.

CFRProflcopter · 2014-03-22T15:14:15+00:00

I don't see anywhere in the post or comments where he mentions 2-3 drinks over the course of an hour. He mentions 2-3 drinks total. The only mention by OP is that at the end the women are "tipsy or a lil drunk".

This could theoretically mean 2-3 drinks over the course of the night. Hardly non-consensual, definitely not rape.

spongegloss00 · 2014-03-23T02:12:17+00:00

I'm a bit split. On the one hand, I'm sure the advice works to a degree (at least better than being wimpy and passive) but of course it's typical asshole game and as someone who was always into LTRs I may have been initially turned on by it, but able to pros/cons the whole thing and realize it's a waste of my time. Having said that, for a girl who just wants to sleep around and get wrapped up in a sexy moment, solid game.

As for the date rape thing...meh, maybe? Obviously alcohol makes you less inhibited, but it's not like he's suggesting getting a woman drunk to the point where she can't move or speak. It seems like he does back off if a woman flat-out tells him he's being creepy.

My one thing is- if this game works so well, why do you even need to get a woman drunk?

FortunateBum · 2014-03-27T01:14:47+00:00

People like to get drunk and then have sex. I know I do.

Have there been situations where sex would not have happened if I were sober? Someone I would not have fucked if I were sober?

Of course - that's why I got drunk first.

Is alcohol a magical potion that makes women fuck you? No. I've been rejected by drunk women probably more than sober women (due to me hitting on other drunks when I'm drunk).

Do all drugs make everyone want to have sex more? Yes. Do they lower inhibitions? Yes. Is that why we get wasted/high? Yes. Do we get wasted/high so our inhibitions are low enough to fuck complete strangers? Yes.

Alcohol and other drugs help you, as a man, get in the mood. That's also true of women. That's why you drink/use drugs on dates and while socializing.

Am I the only person not 13 on Reddit? There's lots of people in the world who almost never have sex sober. They always get drunk first. It helps.

Now you might tell me I just shouldn't be having sex unless I'm 100% sober all the time.

Ok, Taliban.

CFRProflcopter · 2014-03-22T21:46:04+00:00

[deleted]

BeetCleanse · 2014-03-22T18:52:46+00:00

A 120lb female that has 3 drinks (4.5 oz of 80 proof liquor) over an hour will have a .100 BAC. Never gonna be .250 BAC.

Not too long ago .100 BAC was the legal driving limit.

Title	TRP "date rape" post causes some internal controversy. What does PPD Think?
Author	CFRProflcopter
Upvotes	9
Comments	265
Date	March 22, 2014 2:11 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/212qs0/trp_date_rape_post_causes_some_internal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-date-rape-post-causes-some-internal.286050 https://theredarchive.com/post/286050

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