Attempting reconciliation while keeping traditional gender roles

jeteztout · 2023-11-11T08:35:25+00:00

The way you describe it and phrase it sounds worrisome.

1. Cheating isn't a "little deal and that you will manage to get over it". It's an incredibly destructive knowledge, reshaping everything one has believed and felt about a situation and someone. In term of trust, it will never be the same again.

2. You seem to be very infatuated of him, which is a good thing. But it doesn't seem reciprocal ( ie. a relationship "not as bad as it could be" - what kind of loveless description is that ?).

3. A man and woman in a relationship see each other intimate and internal organs, each other medical conditions, but they can't see each other phone because it's "too private" ? This isn't only about you, it's a general condition of the modern world. Their phone is more private than their genitals. The hierarchy of values is entirely upside-down. Your phone should be less private than your genitals. People who don't understand that have updside-down system of values.

4. You, indeed, shouldn't be "constantly trying to get over and accept things". You should speak your standards and negotiate them on the borderline (not in their core).

My best advice would be "take out the best version of yourself" in every aspect (dressing, shape, manners, activities, reconnect with your girlfriends, etc.), speak your values and standards and let him reach out to you (even on a symbolic level like giving you more attention), because if he really loves you, he will.

On a personnal note, I have been through that and never ever again I will even try to forgive cheating. I tried it but now I consider it to be an unforgivable act.

RatchedAngle · 2023-11-11T11:48:37+00:00

A man sacrifices his right to a traditional woman when he fails to uphold the values of a traditional man.

He’s not proving himself to be a good captain. He’s dishonest, dismissive, and disloyal. These types of men are often kicked out of traditional male hierarchies for these reasons - even other men don’t want them around.

Our job as women is to choose good captains. What you need to do is stand back, truly evaluate his behavior, and decide if this is how you want to live the rest of your life.

Because he has made it very clear what type of man he is.

Ok_Outside149 · 2023-11-11T09:13:32+00:00

Comparing your boyfriend’s efforts to some of the efforts I’ve seen on the AOAI sub, it doesn’t sound like your boyfriend is all that committed to reconciliation tbh. Him minimising his actions and your feelings isn’t a great start. Reconciliation is a gift, does he appreciate that? Does he understand his actions almost lost you?

How inappropriate were his actions? “Inappropriate” implies it wasn’t full blown physical cheating which could be easier to forgive. Was it a friendly relationship that turned into an emotional affair? Or was he contacting other women to cheat?? Hard to give advice without knowing the specifics because some things are more understandable than others and have different routes to reconciliation.

I still don’t feel he’s given me any proper answers or really understands how I’m feeling or anything I say

Be objective here. You don’t “feel” he’s given any answers, but has he ACTUALLY not given you any? Is he continuing to lie or hide things or just flat out not answering questions? If he’s still lying then you’re simply not in reconciliation. If he has given you answers but you don’t think they’re valid, you may have to ponder those things alone. For eg “why did you do it” “idk she was just there” may not be satisfying, but it could be valid. A lot of cheating is about having the opportunity. It really may not mean anything about your relationship. Some people just want to have their cake and eat it too. If this is the case, has he taken any changes to prevent himself from being in that position in the first place? If it was a drunk ONS then not going out anymore or stopping drinking is a valid boundary. He can’t be trusted but in the captain-fm dynamic he needs to make this decision himself instead of you demanding it. All you can do is bring him your thoughts and hope he makes a decision you can live with.

open phone policy

Again hard to give advice without knowing some details. If he’s contacting other women for sex then an open phone policy is fair game imo, it’s the least he could do. If he got too friendly with an acquaintance then telling him you would prefer if he stops seeing her would be a fair compromise. Bring him your problems “I don’t feel comfortable with you seeing her” “not being able to trust you keeps me up at night” and see what his solutions are.

but I selfishly don’t want to let him off without consequences

You shouldn’t. Not in a petty way, but nobody should be in a relationship with someone who tramples on their boundaries. There does need to be consequences for when he breaks them. You’re feminine, not a doormat. He can’t just do whatever he likes because you’re traditional. Submission is a gift a woman gives to a man she trusts with her life.

diaryofalostgirl · 2023-11-11T14:27:47+00:00

maintaining a traditional relationship which is very important to my boyfriend

he mentioned we were in a one sided open relationship because him and I had a conversation about it once and he got confused on whether he had permission or not

These things are incompatible.

What he is asking for is a relationship in which you behave according to a set of rules that he dictates, and he does not himself follow. Ask yourself if you can respect a man who is so morally inconsistent.

LocalCap5093 · 2023-11-11T18:27:27+00:00

Eh… it’s almost like I’m reading a post by 18 yo me with my 29yo boyfriend… this happened for years

He isn’t right, no matter how traditional you want to see this, he isn’t. I’m sorry. Honestly I never advice ‘think about breakup’ but in this case I do

LocalCap5093 · 2023-11-11T18:35:57+00:00

I just saw the age gap…. Babe, RUN. Don’t waste your youth being gaslighted please. I was in this exact situation from 18-23. If you want to DM for details you can but it’s not worth it

CountTheBees · 2023-11-12T02:46:26+00:00

My opinion is that this relationship is toxic. The statement where he said he forgets you exist tells me he doesn't care about you. I can't believe he actually said that to you and you just accepted that. Every valid criticism of his That you've tried to bring up, her just turns it around back on you to make it your fault. Eg you say you're about to leave the relationship. He accuses you of not telling him sooner. You say he needs to have an open phone policy for you to trust him. He refuses (probably in a way designed to make you angry) and then accuses you of not being able to keep your cool, and holds your lack of trust against you despite offering no way to make it up to you. I mean wow. Even guys that cheat on their wife don't forget about her existence.

I think what is going on is that you have already given up on the relationship, tried to leave, but couldn't go through with it because his personality type is more dominant and you couldn't stand up to him. All he has to do to get you to stay is just argue and you fold. Rather than go through the pain of trying to break up again, you've decided it's easier if you stay and wait for him to improve, but he hasn't improved, and you know if you try again to leave he might win again, and then you'll be the bad guy in the relationship on top of everything else.

Assuming you do want to leave and the trouble is actually getting to do it, here are some strategies to help you do it and get it done.

Roleplay or rehearse the break up convo with someone else, with you playing him and your friend/loved one/therapist playing you. This can give you a few phrases too use and also help you see the conversation from a new perspective.
Have a friend/loved one/therapist there during the break up. This is less effective because he might try to get you when you're alone later and undo the break up.
Refuse to give him affection/fulfill relationship roles and wait for him to break up with you. Act stupid and don't engage with his arguments.
You can also try to branch swing from within the relationship. Once you've secured a better man it's easier to leave. Immoral, and could backfire if you don't vet well. New guy could be worse and your desperation could blind you to his faults.

Those are the options I can think of... Not good I'm afraid. No easy outs.

West_Army_160 · 2023-11-12T06:22:35+00:00

I told him I don't want to do this anymore and he's getting close to his final chances. His response was that I hadn't made it clear to him that he was getting close to his final chances and he would have appreciated more warning.

This is a red herring. He is avoiding what you are saying to him.

He also says that our discussions have rarely been proper sit down ones. I've tried asking him when he has time for this but he doesn't really given an answer or he'll go back to the previous point of "we've spoken about it enough and I have more important things to do right now (working)".

Again, avoidance.

I also understand that being traditional is very important to my boyfriend and my struggles to be a feminine partner (due to other relationship issues we've been trying to work on) led to negative feelings on his part which contributed to his behaviour.

Your boyfriend is not acting in a traditional way. He is demanding respect rather than earning it, and that can make it extremely hard to feel emotionally safe with him, thusly making it hard to act in a feminine way. He is violating your boundaries, making you feel like you shouldn't be upset that he put himself into a situation that disrespected your relationship, refusing to communicate, and throwing all of the responsibility onto you for fixing the damage of what he did. None of this is okay.

You said yourself that you have a hard time standing up for yourself, and he is taking advantage of that. I understand wanting to save a relationship, but there is a vetting phase for a reason. I don't think you want to deal with this behavior for the rest of your life. I know I wouldn't.

UpstairsPass5051 · 2023-11-14T02:57:13+00:00

It’s natural to stop submitting if you have reason to believe he isn’t able to lead or if he’s done something to wrong you, which sounds like is the case here.

Also remember when you’re submitting he’s supposed to be serving you as well, such as protection and provision

Cosima_Fan_Tutte · 2023-11-11T16:43:06+00:00

I think in Fascinating Womanhood it says it's better to have 5% of a 100% man, rather than 100% of a 5% man. I've been reading your previous posts and it seems like this guy is your 100% man.

I think you could accept that he is the way he is and that the "work" in this relationship will come mostly from you. It's fine to be okay with that, it's not unheard of for a woman to give more because the man is worth it for whatever reason. .

If you're not okay with that, you could ask yourself why you chose this particular man as the 100% man for you. What's your SMV, what's his? Are you "normal" and well-adusted, or are you lost in life in some way?

You could consider your level of psychological masochism (not to be confused with mere sexual masochism). I think all women get some satisfaction out of martyring themselves for love, a man, their children, their job, their family, whatever. Do you get a little kick out of your suffering? Are you hoping that your martyrdom will eventually pay off and he'll say "thank you for putting up with my flaws, now you're a Quality Woman and I will be good because you've proven worthy of it?"

ForeverChanged0623 · 2023-11-12T19:47:37+00:00

As someone whose DDay was in June and came across the Empowered Wife and LD, I honestly think you cross the rubicon of rug sweeping what your partner has done to you.

Infidelity is one of the worse betrayals a person can go through. It affects you mentally, emotionally, and physically. The first piece of advice from LD, self-care. You need to focus on yourself and establishing your needs.

My husband and I have an open phone policy and I can track his location. He used to hack his location services so I couldn’t see where he was at, which is very much hard for me to even take what he’s doing at face value. When your partner cheats, they have gaslit, manipulated, and lied to you to alter your belief in reality. They do not get a pass. They need to own up to their choices and if you are in true R, they need to be safe for you while you learn self-care and telling him what you need right now. Ex: open phone policy, location services, and the contact with his AP immediately cut off.

What I have been doing in addition to self-care, is giving my husband a lot of positive affirmations, thanking him for things he’s doing, smiling at him, and generally not displaying much emotional baggage. I am 5 months into this hell, and trying very hard to be a better person today than I was yesterday. I know I made mistakes but I can only fix me. You cannot fix him, he has to fix himself. It feels like you are running, while they are walking backwards, but when times get low and tough, think of the little things they may be doing. I have to remind myself as well because I want complete certainty, where he refuses to give that.

Even today, I put myself out there to have intimacy, haven’t had any since early August, and he said no, I’m not feeling good, which I knew but wanted to be honest about my intent. I said okay. He immediately said l, “I am sorry you’re disappointed” and I was like I am not and he goes you’ve said that before. I followed up with, “I am not that same person” and left it as that. He’s tied to the past and sooner or later I hope he opens up his eyes and realizes we need to walk into the future together if he wants to make us work.

So that’s my two cents as someone who was betrayed as well. Don’t let them off the hook for the mental anguish that have done to you because it will allow them to not learn how their selfish and immature actions have caused you immense pain. It will cause it to happen again. If you need someone to talk to, please DM me. I wish you the best of luck and take care of yourself!

ladida1321 · 2023-11-16T15:44:34+00:00

This is why some women grow so bitter, so masculine and adopt the angry “all men are trash” stance. They put themselves in awful relationships when they are younger with toxic men and think that’s how all men are. Then they repeat the mistake because they didn’t learn or heal from the trauma.

There is a reason it’s so hard. Not all relationships are hard. There is a reason respect on all sides has exited this relationship. There is no foundation to build upon.

What are you afraid of? Why are you trying to resuscitate this cold dead relationship so hard? What do you fear is going to happen when you finally let go?

AutoModerator · 2023-11-11T08:10:45+00:00

Title: Attempting reconciliation while keeping traditional gender roles

Author West_Army_160

Full text: Hi ladies,

My boyfriend and I are attempting reconciliation after an inappropriate incident on his part. r/asoneafterinfidelity and r/survivinginfidelity have been useful, but the advice does not really align with maintaining a traditional relationship which is very important to my boyfriend. So I'm wondering how I can combine some of the ideas of reconciliation with traditional values.

I understand that the concept of reconciliation can feel almost emasculating as there is a slight power shift towards the betrayed partner (they now have the power to ask for things they feel will help with reconciliation and the wayward partner loses some of the ability to have the final say in decision making). I also understand that being traditional is very important to my boyfriend and my struggles to be a feminine partner (due to other relationship issues we've been trying to work on) led to negative feelings on his part which contributed to his behaviour.

So how do I balance reconciliation, which requires more masculine behaviour, with being more traditional and feminine, which is important for my overall relationship but also more difficult for me now that I feel less able to submit to him.

Is there any way to show submission/ femininity while also not deferring to his final decisions?

Let me try to give specific examples.

Timeline/ Discussing the incident:
- He feels that we've spoken about it enough and there's nothing new to discuss. He feels that my need for further discussions is more of a punishment than anything productive. I think here it's an issue of male vs female communication. I still don't feel he's given me any proper answers or really understands how I'm feeling or anything I say. For example, I've said during these discussions that I'm getting close to the end. In our latest argument I told him I don't want to do this anymore and he's getting close to his final chances. His response was that I hadn't made it clear to him that he was getting close to his final chances and he would have appreciated more warning. How could I have communicated this in a way he as a man would understand? And how can I communicate more effectively to him in the future?
- He also says that our discussions have rarely been proper sit down ones. I've tried asking him when he has time for this but he doesn't really given an answer or he'll go back to the previous point of "we've spoken about it enough and I have more important things to do right now (working)". Do I need to take a firmer more masculine route for this instead of waiting for him to tell me when he has time?
Open phone policy:
- He's extremely uncomfortable with this and doesn't think it's necessary. He says he's entitled to his privacy especially as he has bank emails on his devices (I've assured him this isn't what I wanted to look at) and that he doesn't do anything on his devices other than work. I admittedly lost my cool at his refusal and he commented that he didn't want to encourage my behaviour and the final answer was no.
- I'm sure at this point I wouldn't be able to find anything anyways and I understand his feelings surrounding privacy (as I share the same feelings) so do I accept his "no" + apologize for losing my cool (submission) while also maybe asking for something else in return? (masculine/ reconciliation but also as a 'compromise' which is a point towards submission).

The bottom line is that I don't know what to do and he doesn't know what to do. He seems to think it's not a big deal and that I'll manage to get over it. I know that managing your expectations is important in preventing resentment but I'm honestly really sick of just constantly trying to get over and accept things. I'm also not thrilled at the idea of spending the next few years trying to improve our relationship because "it's not as bad as it could be" according to my boyfriend. This really isn't the vision I had for my life but I'm also worried about being too selfish/ childish here.

The sad thing is that I'm pretty sure I could just get over it. I could just continue on like before. I could just push myself to give him the things he wants and the relationship is supposed to have. Maybe I'd even learn to be happy. But I selfishly don't want to let him off without consequences. I just want him to try. But I can't seem to get the balance between reconciliation and femininity right to encourage him. Or maybe I'm just too jaded to really see and appreciate any efforts he's making?

I'm running out of ideas and he also isn't sure what to do. So here I am once again turning towards you ladies for any proposals. I am determined to give absolutely everything I have before thinking of walking away.

Also I know this would be the best option but neither of us have the money or time for MC or IC. Our previous couple's counsellor really wasn't helpful. I could maybe borrow some money for MC but this wouldn't be ideal so I'd rather try other things first.

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Title	Attempting reconciliation while keeping traditional gender roles
Author	West_Army_160
Upvotes	11
Comments	55
Date	November 11, 2023 8:10 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/17spzl8/attempting_reconciliation_while_keeping/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/attempting-reconciliation-while-keeping.1238106 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238106

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