Discuss: Settling

Whisper · 2018-07-10T19:38:02+00:00

For every woman, no matter how attractive or unattractive, there are some stacked categories of men:

Men who are so far out of her league they won't give her anything.
Men who she can get sex from, but not a relationship.
Men who she can get a relationship with after having sex with them, if she plays her cards right.
Men who will commit to her before sex.

The order roughly corresponds to how desirable one can expect them to be. Changing her level of attractiveness will change who falls into each category, but not the existence or order of the categories.

The first category is off limits regardless of what she does.
The second category is the no-go zone that RPW basics advise avoiding at all costs.
The third carries more pre-commitment risk, as these men are more difficult to inspire attachment in, and can increase the n-count, but also less post-commitment risk, and a greater reward.
The fourth carries less pre-commitment risk, at the expense of greater post-commitment risk: unhappiness and hypergamous urges.

To be successful, a woman has to be able to:

Accurately sort men into these categories (this requires knowing her real SMV).
Decide what tradeoff she wants to make between pre- and post-commitment risk.
Focus her game skill development on whichever strategy she has chosen; focusing on femininity and character if she chooses pre-commitment risk, and self-discipline and expectation management if she chooses more post-commitment risk.

red_philosopher · 2018-07-10T13:01:50+00:00

The notion of "Never settle for less than what you want" is a dangerous bit of rhetoric used to "empower" women, when it really is hypergamy, plain and simple. Women are told not to settle, even if the man they are with makes them happy and they have a great relationship. One must rid themselves of this poisonous notion that by settling and choosing someone, you are giving up everything "better". If one does not, one will inevitably be unsatisfied with their partner, not because they are a bad partner, but because you think "I could have done better." This inevitably leads to resentment and branch swinging, which will destroy that relationship.

Women must also understand that their prime sexual value is brief- they simply don't have the time for a lifelong quest of finding the perfect mate. There quite literally, will always be something or someone better than what you have. Chasing that "better" in the hopes that you will obtain it will always come at the cost of time lost with the partner you have currently obtained. You must start over anew with uncertain results and possibilities.

People say what good is cake if you can't eat it? Well, I say what the fuck good is cake if you NEVER eat it?

LateralThinker13 · 2018-07-10T14:33:32+00:00

Settling means lowering your expectations/requirements in a partner to the attainable; to what's available, not what you are worth, which is more.

Problem is, in today's society most women have a vastly inflated idea of what their RMV is, as they confuse SMV (who will sleep with them) with RMV (who will wife them).

Again, lowering expectations can make branch swinging more likely only IF she's underselling her actual RMV. But most women do the opposite, and especially BP women, this trait only gets worse over time in a BP relationship.

What a good RP woman needs to do is to comprehend her RMV and hunt for a partner who is worth it. But she has to be honest and not in denial about her merits and flaws in that regard. The hamster loves to delude.

Happy_Holly87 · 2018-07-10T14:50:12+00:00

Not sure if it’s a conscious decision is it? Would be interested to know. I can’t imagine ever “settling” with someone who didn’t make me happy etc etc

My husband is honestly perfect in my eyes and I genuinely 100% would never find better than him. Maybe other people look at my husband and see otherwise.

Edit; my best friend flirts with my husband and has made comments that she wishes her was more like mine. I honestly don’t think I settled. I’ve been with him more than a decade now.

ragnarockette · 2018-07-10T15:23:05+00:00

Don’t be with someone who doesn’t make you happy (emotionally, mentally, sexually, shared goals, etc). That’s not fair to either partner.

But if you are with someone who makes you happy, don’t assume there’s someone better out there in the nebulous ether.

Gardrothard · 2018-07-10T17:14:49+00:00

The topic of what is good versus bad settling is a really big, complex topic to me, I think female attraction is more fluid than male attraction, but I don't claim to know the degree of that, or if I'm right, even though the present science suggests it.

A related problem to settling that I've been thinking about is that there seems to be a difference in values for men and women when they are looking for a relationship, versus the values needed which make a relationship last and be good. Past social trauma and the fear of shame is playing a role in making dating fake or full of social games. I think that in the case of healthy monogamy, this is an imbalance between the roles of reproduction and survival, where sexual attraction (reproduction) as opposed to good relationship material (survival), is valued to such a degree, that a person's integrity or values gets undermined, and this makes most relationships fail.

Social trauma causes more intentional push-pull or social games in dating which makes casual sex more exciting because it creates more anticipation of whether sex could happen or not, and it makes this kind of sex appear as a bigger reward than opening up oneself, which is dangerous now because kindness is not the primary value in dating and relationships, and without kindness you can only have limited vulnerability and connection. So the survival-drive based pleasure and meaning that comes out of a cycle of kind vulnerability and responsive kindness is outside of reach for most people because they are all so driven by making sex into a game, and their sex is more emotionally-dulled, disconnected, and meaningless because of this.

Everyone wants a healthy version of "pull" instead of push-pull, which is to say that they want increasingly deepening and intensifying connection. But it requires giving another person the power to either do extreme emotional damage or extreme emotional healing to you, and while that is terrifying, it is the more exciting game. It comes down to the question in dating, would you rather have emotionally shallow sex, or have a profoundly positive and vulnerable emotional connection that you both remember for life, with the possibility of sex? Most couples aren't aligned with the survival drive, and that is why most relationships can't survive, lol.

Lastly I think an important question to ask when it comes to finding long-term relationship material is this one: Whether or not you want children, is the person you are considering for a relationship not just sexually attractive, but someone you could see yourself having children with and happily staying with?

Shaela90 · 2018-07-10T14:32:15+00:00

I think settling is different for everybody. We must know what we want out of life and then go find a partner with whom we can create said life. Being realistic about what we bring to the table, what we want to achieve and then selecting our partners accordingly and not by some fantasy ‘standards’ we might have in our heads.

‘Healthy’ settling might be something like ok ...I know I’m not really into having children, so I should cross the -must be able to support a family by himself- requirement of my future spouse's 'must haves'.

Another example would be ...a guy that’s balding or on the shorter side. Do i really NEED a full head of hair and a 6 ft man( being a 5’3 woman myself) to be happy? Not really.

The problem with settling is that it has an ugly connotation to it somehow. Many people have this idea that settling means having to wed someone who you don’t find attractive, or is a complete deadbeat, just to have the wife title and maybe children. That’s a huge no no and IT WILL create resentment and a toxic environment down the line.

CalvinRichland · 2018-07-10T15:03:19+00:00

If you have some long list of must haves for a man and won't date anyone else you will have a problem and there are many things you don't know you want or don't want you don't yet know.

This doesn't mean you should date men with no job that are ugly.

Understand perfect does not exist.

CleburnCO · 2018-07-13T04:09:23+00:00

Hard Truth...get a piece of paper. Write your total debt load and all of the things you think are wrong in your life on it. Take off all your clothes and stand in the bathroom, looking in the mirror holding that piece of paper while naked.

Would you marry that person?

Who would?

Now figure out whether you are "settling" or not.

It may be a good news answer...or it may be a reality check.

girlwithabike · 2018-07-10T14:55:50+00:00

The word “settling” isn’t nice. I think we should avoid it.

I feel like some people hear have thought about this way more than I have. I consider myself pretty red pill. I don’t want to sound simple but... it takes me a lot to change teams. I’m pretty loyal.

My problem is I put up with a lot of garbage I shouldn’t. You almost need to burn my house down for me to go straying.

Elumamai · 2018-07-11T03:25:11+00:00

I don't think you should ever "lower" expectations but work towards being more attractive to attain them. For all intents and purposes my SO settled for me. I'm a filthy 4 on a scale of 10. My husband is probably like a 9 now and an 8 when we met. He's incredibly happy with me. But he's also odd, he's intelligent enough to want a deep connection and realises he probably won't get that with an Ariana grande look alike. He doesn't seem bothered that I'm 13 years older them him or close to two feet shorter then he is. In his words women being told not to settle is like treating dating like scratch off tickets you don't win with every one and occasionally you break even and it keeps you invested but your constantly looking for that next big win.

LateralThinker13 · 2018-07-13T20:39:58+00:00

Women are often told that we need to have "realistic expectations" or that we need to settle. It's nearly always suggested that the AF/BB strategy means that a woman is settling for the BB.

Upon further reflection, I don't think that I agree with the premise. Settling for the BB?

A woman who wants kids but who can't find a man to settle down (not uncommon!) often "settles" for the AF male who at least keeps her entertained and tingled.

Realistic expectations = finding a partner where his SMV/RMV - both your present AND projected future values - are comparable, and you make each other happy.

Settling means accepting a partner whose present and future SMV/RMV is significantly lower than yours.

I put both in there because, honestly, SMV measures alphas and RMV measures betas, and no man is all one or the other. In fact, men who are ALL one or the other are fairly intolerable. We want traits from both.

Ultimately, how should we be advising women to set their expectations for the type of partner she can get and still be happy?

Know what your present SMV/RMV values are. Know where they are trending. And find a man to match. Example:

Typical early-20s American gal NOW: 7 SMV (hot, slim, fertile) but 3 RMV (immature, can't cook, untidy)

Projected values in two years after some self-work, and with plans to grow up and learn homemaking: 6 SMV (older), but 6 RMV (more mature, can cook, learning to tend a shared space)

She needs to be looking at men whose combined SMV/RMV is around 10-12. Should she accept the fat beta nerd (SMV 2) who will white knight for her (RMV 2) and call her m'lady? 2+2 = hell no.

Should she pine for the hot, virile 25 year old (SMV 9) Christian Grey billionaire startup guy (RMV 10) who might plate her but not marry her?

Hell no.

But that nice, slightly older guy with a good body but not with an early 20-year-old's endless stamina (SMV 7) who has a good job with earning potential and a great personality (RMV 6) - yeah, he's a good catch.

That's not settling. It's understanding where you stand, not under- or over-valuing who you are AND who you AND your partner are going to be, and then planning accordingly.

Don't be that hot 20-something (SMV 9) with no RMV who thinks she can coast on her looks, and then hits the wall and "settles" for a beta man because she can't do better. Similarly, don't jump for the first handsome young man (SMV 8) who is going nowhere and turns out to be a lazy, abusive ass (RMV 1) who you will resent while you continue growing and becoming a valuable person.

Just my $19.99 worth of advice.

HobbesTheBrave · 2018-07-10T21:23:43+00:00

What do "realistic expectations" look like?

If you're not royalty, don't expect to marry a prince.

If you are lazy, why would a man with good work ethic choose to marry you?
If you don't work out regularly, why would a hunk choose you?
If you're not reliable, why would a man choose to trust and rely on you?
If you do not treat men lovingly, why would a good man choose to open up to you?
If you won't or can't pay for the best choice, why do you expect it?
If you lie, why would honest men talk to you?

Hammocknapping · 2018-07-10T15:53:50+00:00

Having realistic expectations, does not necessarily equate to “settling.” I also don’t think that realistic expectations are limited to items like: he has a kind heart, he values life long learning, he wants to be a father.

Here is the list of realistic expectations I had when I was looking for a husband:

Must be male
Must be my age or older, with a preference for men 5 years older
Must not be showing signs of hair loss, with a preference for thick, light color hair
Must have received good dental and orthodontic care
Must eat meat and animal products, and not be a picky eater
Must be at least 6 inches taller than myself, so at at least 5’8
Must be interested in physical fitness, but not to the degree of being “ripped” or overly muscular
Must have a 4 year degree, which was not obtained online, with a strong preference for additional, professional degree(s)
Must be goal oriented, have a public service mindset, and passionate about their career choice
Must have conservative values, including a similar financial background
Must come from a middle class background, with a very strong preference for upper middle class
Must be comfortable with the prospect of not having children
Must be comfortable with my commitment to my career

Those were my “Musts,” which does not include more subtle character traits such as a sense of humor or the ability to communicate their emotions. Those things can take over a year to figure out, and my “Musts” were limited to things that I could figure out in the period before monogamy and physical interaction.

I was quickly able to weed out men thanks to my “Musts” list, but it certainly did not weed out so many men that there was no one to date.

loneliness-inc · 2018-07-11T01:38:28+00:00

It's nearly always suggested that the AF/BB strategy means that a woman is settling for the BB.

That's only true in today's oversexualized, promiscuous, cc riding world.

If a woman rides her way around town in her younger years while ignoring all the responsible men and then suddenly starts looking for a BB when she turns 28 - naturally, the man will feel as if she settled for him because she did. He wasn't good enough for her in her best years, he doesn't deserve her worst years.

What do "realistic expectations" look like?

This is a very important question!

IMO, a realistic expectation is when it's balanced with a corresponding benefit. Most, if not all gender stereotypes from the past are various expectations and their counterbalance.

Unfortunately, many women today have a laundry list of expectations from their perspective and current husbands while not offering much in terms of corresponding value.

Does lowering expectations make cheating or hypergamic branch swinging more likely?

It really depends.

If her expectations were ridiculous and she has now recalibrated herself to the realm of reason - she should be fine.

If her expectations were reasonable but she settled because she got desperate - yea, that's a recipe for resentment.

If she's fickle and keeps changing her mind on things - there's no predicting the future...

Ultimately, how should we be advising women to set their expectations for the type of partner she can get and still be happy?

We need to teach our children to appreciate what they have and to root out any form of jealousy from a very young age and onwards.

We need to set a good example for our children so they know what reasonable expectations look like in life. We can't wait until they're in relationships. That would be way too late.

As mentioned above, reasonable expectations are when the responsibility is counterbalanced with a benefit of equal value. This is true for life in general, not just within relationships.

Title	Discuss: Settling
Author	girlwithabike
Upvotes	39
Comments	121
Date	July 10, 2018 12:27 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/8xolgj/discuss_settling/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/discuss-settling.2896 https://theredarchive.com/post/2896

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