Do you ever disagree with some stuff certain RP men say about women?

Bakerofpie · 2014-02-08T02:01:32+00:00

It's absurd enough that it doesn't really offend me. I just sort of roll my eyes and move on. For most of them it is a phase they will move past, and for those who don't they probably aren't going to be very happy in their lives while holding onto that much resentment. I guess that part is sort of sad, but honestly I don't really care. I don't really respect those men, so... meh.

Nynx12 · 2014-02-08T01:41:32+00:00

I guess the problem with RP is that, while there are some main ideas that everyone seems to more or less agree on, there isn't much unity of ideas. Each person has their own experiences and agendas. I don't think ALL RP men believe all "women are just empty vessels for alpha dick".

It doesn't bother me. Most of these things actually hold a lot of truth for most women. Remember, just by being here we are the exception rather than the rule.

Men have a deep-seated instinct to help and protect women, often even when their logic tells them otherwise. In order for a man to seek out/agree with RP ideas he has to have been pretty screwed over by (possibly a lot of) women. It's unsurprising, then, that most men (especially in the "earlier stages") hold resentment and anger towards women and/or society in general.

riskrowe · 2014-02-08T17:35:35+00:00

I'm NOT trolling

I'm not entirely convinced of that, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Also it might help for me to explain it to anyone reading who's still on the fence.

I don't like being told things about myself from a stranger who hasn't even interacted with me once.

That's not what's happening. r/TRP has nothing to do with any individual person, it's merely a place to discuss trends in society, and the principles that can be extracted from those trends. We speak in generalisations with no intent to hurt nor protect anyone's feelings. If you're getting offended by things we talk about that you're certain don't apply to you, then you're defining yourself by your gender rather than your own individual personality.

Now: those 10 dot-points are all strawmen. I've never seen anyone on r/TRP say any of that. The only place I've ever seen that much emphasis on 'alphaness' is satirically and ad nauseum on r/TBP, which leads me to believe that either you haven't been lurking as much as you say, or you just haven't made an honest attempt at understanding anything we talk about. In any case I challenge you to find examples of those points being made anywhere on r/TRP, because frankly every single dot-point is phrased as the sort of dismissive one-dimensional caricature that you can only find outside r/TRP and never actually within it.

If you are not trolling and are genuinely trying to understand TRP, then the following are my corrections to your strawmen:

all women will cheat

It's a cost-benefit thing. All women are open to cheating under the right circumstances, as are all men, but will they do it? Depends on the risk and the reward. A lot of women go through life without ever cheating on their SO.

she won't stay with a guy if someone more 'alpha' comes along

See above. Alpha-male attractiveness might factor in to the potential reward, but it's not the sole deciding factor.

A woman doesn't have the willpower to say no to sex

Girls are taught from a young age that nice things are to be given to them, and they are usually given more lenient treatment by parents and schools relative to boys, so many women grow up lacking a strong sense of self-discipline or consequence, and generally tend to be more susceptible to whims of uncalculated indulgence than men are.

the only reason I'm with my boyfriend is because I've had sex with sooo many alphas before him and now I just want a beta provider

In general a woman will only start pursuing a provider in lieu of an attractive partner if she finds herself pregnant, a single mother, or otherwise in dire straits where her need for a supportive man begins to strongly outweigh her desire for an attractive man. Again it's a cost-benefit thing.

we don't care about a guy's weight, age, hygiene, money, personality, etc...unless of course, that personality is ALPHA

r/TRP is constantly encouraging men to make themselves as attractive as possible. That includes working on all the things you mentioned and more.

any guy regardless of who he is can have sex with perfect 10s constantly, as long as he is a jerk to them

Being an outright jerk doesn't normally factor into seduction, unless the guy is applying jerk-game, which can sometimes be appropriate depending on the situation.

any woman who has a problem with overly-jerky alpha behavior within a relationship is just hamstering- it secretly turns her on

See above. Although some women are convinced by society that they ought to find certain things attractive, and then the hamster wheel starts spinning when they think they've failed to have the correct emotional response - "yeah he was kind and polite and he had a stable job, and we were totally into each other, but I just didn't see us going anywhere, y'know?"

an open relationship is the only type of relationship that 'works'

There are plenty of RP men in exclusive LTRs who are successfully applying RP knowledge to keep the flare alive. There is no RP code of conduct to be obeyed, it's just knowledge, and it can be applied to any kind of relationship.

if you've had sex with even one person before your husband, he's automatically a 'loser beta'

Men tend to prefer women who have had fewer partners. There are a number of reasons why - loyalty, jealousy, cuckolding - but suffice to say that more promiscuous women are less desirable and easier for men to obtain, and therefore the men who are less attractive will inevitably be drawn to settle down with them, because they know they can't do much better (without putting in the effort of self-improvement of course).

any remotely 'beta' behavior is bad, even in a LTR.

Again, there is no RP code of conduct to assign labels like good and bad. Beta-male characteristics like kindness and sensitivity are less sexually attractive to women, but they foster bonding and intimacy, which is what separates LTRs from hook-ups. Some men are just looking to get as much sex as possible, and for them there is no practical benefit to showing beta-male characteristics. But a RP man in a happy LTR will probably have to show a healthy balance of both, because he must be simultaneously a lover and a husband.

TL;DR - "I don't even know how people can say this stuff without realizing how absurd it is."

[deleted] · 2014-02-08T01:12:38+00:00

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givemeallthepuppies · 2014-02-08T01:18:17+00:00

I agree with what /u/technologyneed said--that a lot of the men there have been screwed over by women, so their harsh generalizations are just part of them coping with their loss of illusions. With that said, though, I definitely understand your feelings. In fact, I was just over there reading a post from a guy about whether or not to marry his SO, and almost all of the comments were telling him not to get married, that even though he thinks this girl is special, she's not, he's only setting himself up to have his life ruined, etc. It made me feel rather discouraged, as I have a very strong desire to marry my SO, but knowing that he reads those posts and generally agrees with the ideas expressed makes me feel like my dream of marrying him may not ever be realized. :/

So yes, a lot of those guys do not say the nicest things about women, and it can certainly be discouraging, but again, I think most of them are just angry, likely for good reason, and that's just how they deal with that. A lot of them will come around, though some of them won't, and that's okay. You may find this post useful if you haven't read it already:

http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1x1284/if_any_of_you_hens_find_trp_to_be_a_little_too/

Wolfwoodd · 2014-02-08T16:29:28+00:00

TRP guy here. Just a something to consider.. I'm of the mindset that the TRP subreddit functions as a support group for recovering beta males. A lot of the guys who find the subreddit are hurt and venting. There's a lot of extreme ideas thrown around, because many of the guys were burnt in previous relationships and still going through their bitter phase. Also, some of the big-wig TRP gurus cater to these bitter guys, by advocating even more extreme views. Unfortunately, it's always the loudest and most extreme viewpoints that get picked-up by the masses.

A good portion of TRP is level headed and reasonable. Your list is just the more extreme crap. Some of it has roots in truthful statements and some of it is just rubbish.

Just my 2 cents.

wendy-fly · 2014-02-08T03:25:31+00:00

There are things that I don't agree with at this time but there are many things I agree with that I can't find elsewhere. Overall, I want a strong dominant partner whom I trust with my life and I think this is a way to achieve that.

spongegloss00 · 2014-02-08T05:27:02+00:00

RP_Man: I wish your points were bullshit however I see this behaviour daily. I try to not let it consume me. To be honest I see no lies here.

PhantomDream09 · 2014-02-08T02:09:37+00:00

i agree with all of it and individual women take the generalizations too personally.

women imagine they wouldnt cheat with a regular guy who might be in her world, but they dont imagine if they had the opportunity to have a tryst with george clooney (or insert favorite celebrity here) many many many movies made for women are about happily married women who get a secret chance to bang outside their league and take it, cf. bridges of madison county. there is a reason for this.

its like this "ALL women are X, Y and Z" "THIS individual woman is .5X, 2Y, A, D, 1/3Z. and L"

we all approach the "general" women, some asymptotically, some as far away from it as they can and still be female, but the kernel of TRPs description is in all of us

pinkantlers · 2014-02-08T11:40:35+00:00

I totally understand how you feel, a lot of it seems a bit wtf to me and is massive generalisations. BUT...it helps to understand the position these men are coming from....a lot of them are really angry, because they've been screwed over by the world and women and they're just starting to work through that process. I think there was a thread a couple of days ago where one of the mods from TRP came here and explained it perfectly - I will try link if I can find it. If it upsets you, as it does me, I suggest not going to TRP for a while and cooling off a bit.

spongegloss00 · 2014-02-08T03:16:34+00:00

The problem is that we're all like that to even a small degree. The fact that sets us apart is that we actively try to control our bad behaviors that drive men off or keep us from happy relationships.

We also have to remember the fact TRP is a male environment and all of the men are in different stages of swallowing the pill. Of course they're going to have varying opinions and some will be angry at women. They all hold different beliefs. Some are in LTRs and marriages and some aren't.

Many are anti-marriage (unless a pre-nup) because of the way marriage laws work to women's advantage. It's a system hellbent to screw them over unless their woman is absolutely bent on making the marriage work. They don't see the point in risking everything for one woman, especially if things end up going sour.

Even my boyfriend told me he knows I'll probably tire of him after a while. I intend to make sure that isn't the case and I know he feels the same.

I just remind myself that I'm striving to be the best I can be for my man and that it isn't their fault that many of them are so hostile to a current system that doesn't really work out in their favor.

Bakerofpie · 2014-02-08T13:49:04+00:00

OK Ladies...

TRP is not just "hurt men lashing out". trp is the truth about how men view women. period. some of the anger and hurt you see is "just men lashing out", but the ACTUAL BELIEFS are a statement of male and female biological nature.

if you dont believe this and you think ALL of the red pill is just hurt boys crying then you do not belong here

sandpaperwalls · 2014-02-08T01:13:56+00:00

http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1x1284/if_any_of_you_hens_find_trp_to_be_a_little_too/

I would wager its mostly men who've just found out about the red pill, or dudes that have been burned by the worst of the worst. I personally agree that it's a bit upsetting, but many women are seriously entitled bitches who emasculate the men in their lives. I literally see it almost everywhere.

fihsined · 2014-02-08T07:43:58+00:00

noone says all women cheat. this entire post is bogus. the TRP ideology is to TREAT all women as if they cheat and EXPECT all women to cheat. No playing favorites, no unicorns, and no fucking surprises.

This is a pretty obvious fucking troll thread and it's aggravating you're not banned. Half of the things here are just blatant fucking lies not even worth addressing.

Women have integrity, they just don't have loyalty. Not most of them. They do branch swing. I mean for fucks sakes, a common joke on reddit is "Oh my girlfriend told me that I need to know she'll leave me for brad pitt xDD she's so funny".

Pretty much everything else you made up for the sake of not having an empty list.

spongegloss00 · 2014-02-08T02:26:46+00:00

Yes I feel the same way about the things you listed. That's why I go to the female side, not the male side.

HeNeverLies4 · 2014-02-08T14:19:43+00:00

If anyone reading this didn't understand female solipsism before, read the OPs comments and take note of how she is making TRP about HER personally

[deleted] · 2014-02-08T04:20:24+00:00

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Mrswhiskers · 2014-02-08T18:47:07+00:00

if you've had sex with even one person before your husband, he's automatically a 'loser beta'

That's one I haven't heard before.

On a side note, what are these marriage friendly RP websites you speak of. I've been trying to find some for my husband and I to look at.

AnotherBigBrother · 2014-02-09T07:23:54+00:00

Ok Ladies first off while I appreciate what you are doing within this sub-reddit...hat tip to danabanana for he has already hinted at the solipsism.

TRP is something near and dear to my heart because it has literally changed my life for the better over a period of the last ten or so years. I have mostly been a lurker and a reader of various communities during that time. This actual sub-reddit is just comical in it's existence to me. While I appreciate what I think is the spirit of it on the surface, deep down, there is just something I cannot grasp because we do not share the same biological imperatives based upon our DNA. However giving credit where it's due, I appreciate you all for trying to make the world a better place, within the mating market and without.

Part of me thinks that that ten year period would have matured me in very similar ways and the red pill only helped to illuminate concepts that would have become clear to me regardless due to the many varying circumstances of life that a person faces when coming of age.

I do have to say, however that RedPillWomen seems to be just another instance of general femalian solipsism, or the co-opting of concepts generated by and for men. The reason I am here is partially within my own screenname, but also relates to the current circumstances to my life. I am the big brother to two wonderful sisters, who I think the world of and trust entirely and completely. I also am year two of a long-term relationship with the best woman I've known. Saying all that, I see marriage as the biggest risk facing me within the course of life from here out. Going in, I have to reckon with the fact that the odds are stacked against me and I would be making a bet that could jeopardize my entire life.

People in my life would likely classify me as: that funny, charismatic asshole with a big heart who sees the world a bit differently but can be counted on through thick and thin.

At this point I am going to address point by point the items from the op. However some will be skipped over because they are covered in other items or they generally do not apply as I see the world.

Cheating: General solipsism aside, cheating is literally based upon our options. I do not think TRP advocates that any one woman will cheat, only that we all, as human being a capable of cheating. This does not mean that we will, that we do, or even that we would, but given certain situational criteria we would. And anyone reading this saying, I would never....yes you would, if you needed to. And the moral among you, judge not lest ye...Cheating is immoral, but it is also amoral. There are many things that are pre-cursors to cheating and many things that can be done to prevent it, the most critical of which are a grounded sense of reality and some general life experience.

Too be continued tomorrow...my ladyfriend has arrived.

Continued...

You have twisted the interpretation of integrity and whether women have integrity or not. Obviously there are women and men who lack integrity. This is not gender specific. What the red pill recognizes in the most simple form is that is much easier to 'pull' and get a girlfriend than it is to keep a girlfriend. A man literally has to step his game up to another level within a relationship because a relationship is like one un-ending shit test. A man has to maintain the frame because he has forgone his biological imperative when he enters into an exclusive monogamous. relationship. This can apply to cheating within a relationship. If a man does not maintain frame, and screen, screen prior to entering an exclusive monogamous relationship the risk of cheating goes up and within certain circumstances becomes inevitable.

Alpha is a mindset. Not a demographic. You may have banged lesser men prior to your boyfriend. He may be the 'best' you'll ever get. I have no way of knowing. All of the attributes you list are critical for your own qualifiers. In life attitude is the most critical. You cannot change the way you look (to a certian degree, not talking weight more features) but you can change your attitude. All women care about the various status indicators you identified to a certain degree. For men, we care initially only about attractiveness. Then other aspects come into play. Sorry if you've got a great personality but are 300lb beluga, your personality is not got matter to many men. By taking on alphatude a man will likely have more success throughout life, not just with women. It will become a veritable self-fulfilling prophecy.

Not any guy can have sex with perfect 10s. I don't even believe a perfect 10 exists. No one is perfect. The perfect 10 woman is a unicorn. Guys can have sex with very attractive women. Guys with status and game can get the most attractive women. Status can and usually does transcend age.

Men in long-term relationships will often have to adjust their game during their cycle. There are times when a man can ease off the gas a bit, however there are times when a little bit of 'jerk' will go a long way and could even be a turn-on.

I don't think most people can handle an open relationship. TRP advocates that men should spin plates.

I don't want a virgin. I am 32. I don't think I've dated a virgin since highschool. I also don't want a porn-star. I think partner count can affect a woman greatly, and the brutality of the SMP can add baggage. I think a woman risks becoming an alpha widow with a high N count, or if she obtains a very alpha/high-status man as an initial relationship. This is risky for women and I have no idea how to overcome this risk as a woman. Holding out sex until you obtain some level of commitment seems like a good plan, however you may miss out on the best man for you. Most red-pill men will not stick around without physical intimacy. Holding out may lead to men who may not have other options, i.e. lesser men. It also will hurt if he ever finds out you didn't make someone else wait 'as long'. Again I have no understanding of how to navigate this as a woman, because I am not a woman.

Unfortunately beta behavior can be bad. Showing your soft side to a woman at the wrong time can be bad. Entering a committed relationship can lead to beta-backsliding and slipping up....losing frame.

Marriage friendly sites are not always red-pill. There is a Christian red pill sphere. I get the sense that that sphere is related within framework and thought to the red pill women sub-reddit. Whatever works for you. Good luck out there and I hope you make your life the best it can ever be!!!

Just AnotherBigBrother

mordanus · 2014-02-09T08:18:41+00:00

Your lack of understanding of TRP is kind of laughable. Almost every single one of these is completely wrong. Except the all women will cheat things. Those are pretty accurate. Every woman that I know has someone that they consider their tv boyfriend or the equivalent and that if he showed up they would throw themselves at him. Hypergamy is a real thing and if you aren't aware of it as a woman and aren't prepared for how it will make you feel it will destroy your relationship.

meowfacenator · 2014-02-08T03:19:16+00:00

yeah especially when the tell people that once you're married your sex life dies. I like having sex with my husband because i love him.

scallopkid · 2014-02-08T03:08:27+00:00

Jerk != alpha. Jerk = RP tryhard. Alpha = leader. I tend to mostly agree with what the RP guys say, or at least understand what they are trying to convey. It's important to remember that pretty much anyone can comment there. Pay attention to the endorsed contributors.

Edit: that doesn't mean an alpha guy can't be jerk sometimes, it just means that being a jerk isn't what makes him alpha.

Title	Do you ever disagree with some stuff certain RP men say about women?
Author	spongegloss00
Upvotes	30
Comments	150
Date	February 8, 2014 12:48 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1xbi1q/do_you_ever_disagree_with_some_stuff_certain_rp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/do-you-ever-disagree-with-some-stuff-certain-rp.165155 https://theredarchive.com/post/165155

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