Question about RPW, TPR, and rape

VigilantRedRooster · 2016-12-16T16:26:31+00:00

This is a difficult topic of course, but OP asks for worthwhile clarification on prevailing TRP (not RPW) positions on the topic of dating a rape victim, so we'll leave this discussion up for now.

Remember to stick to the TOPIC of the OP. False rape accusations are a serious item of contention among TRP men, but this thread (and sub) is NOT the place to editorialize or rant about this.

BigRedRover · 2016-12-16T18:01:41+00:00

Your entire post is concern trolling, which I'm pretty sure is against the rules, but I'll answer a few quick things that might help you understand how silly your questions are in this context just in case you're sincere.

Just wondering what RPW think about TRP's stance on women who are raped - which is basically, dump 'em in all cases no matter what because they're damaged goods and not worth shit anymore.

TRP does not have an official stance on women who are raped. What you have asserted is their stance here is simply untrue.

it seems to be popular opinion that rape victims - or at least those who admit to being one - are unsuitable for dating, fucking, friending, marrying, or loving.

They tend to have more problems than average, which would tend to make them more difficult to have as potential partners than average. It's really as simple as that, but there is no blanket statement for this sort of thing ala your "it seems to be popular opinion" turn of the phrase.

What do RPW women think about TRP saying raped women are undateable/unplateable/valueless?

RPW doesn't care what TRP thinks about this.

What do RPW think about the fact that such a huge faction of TRP equates not pressing charges with being a liar?

RPW doesn't care what TRP thinks about this.

Paininabox · 2016-12-16T06:06:27+00:00

This is a very disingenuous post. You pretend to be asking for clarification about this when you are actually making a statement basically saying "How can you women share beliefs with men who view rape victims as unworthy women. Come on girls, support women! Yeah!" Think that this is going to cause some kind of cognitive dissonance that will save women from the red pill? It's cute that you framed this so subversively under the guise of just being a simple "question", no doubt because you just want "clarification" and "discussion" with women having "firsthand experience". So much plausible deniability, typical female subterfuge.

As to the rape thing, this is a strawman argument. TRP doesn't advocate leaving a girl who claims to have been raped as being a callous or cruel thing. In the case that that actually happened, as in a girl was grabbed in an alley, ravaged, and beaten (the archetypal rape), then that girl is emotionally broken. Dealing with the trials of life is hard enough without having to help carry the immense baggage of someone else's past. However, TRP views the vast majority of rapes claimed these days as being either abjectly false or mild events where the girl just feels weird or uncomfortable about it afterward. A girl claiming rape, from a RP perspective, is likely someone deeply conditioned by modern third wave feminism, and potentially a massive huge risk. If a man is falsely accused of rape, and only he and the "victim" were the only people there, what can he possibly say in today's world that would save him from being viewed as monstrous? It is self-preservation. Unfortunately, you come from the perspective that because a girl "feels raped" then she was raped, that there is no objective way of knowing a rape occured and thus that the woman becomes both victim and judge and executioner through her subjective experience. Feels before reals.

loneliness-inc · 2016-12-16T16:41:56+00:00

I read through your post very carefully. It stinks of trolling and baiting for a "gotcha" moment. It's very difficult to take your "questions" seriously as they don't seem like questions at all. They seem to be "how dare you" statements. Nevertheless, it is my way in life to always explain my stance on any matter and not just accuse people of not being genuine. I feel that your questions are not genuine at all, but I will still answer them because that's the way I do things.

I tried searching "rape" in this sub and couldn't find an answer to my question.

Read - I was looking to find this sub guilty of rape culture and I had difficulty doing so.

Just wondering what RPW think about TRP's stance on women who are raped

Sounds like you were "just wondering" now that you proceeded to give your own definition as stated in the next quote.

which is basically, dump 'em in all cases no matter what because they're damaged goods and not worth shit anymore. The term "damaged goods" comes up a lot. Sure, not everyone agrees with this over there, but it seems to be popular opinion that rape victims - or at least those who admit to being one - are unsuitable for dating, fucking, friending, marrying, or loving. Even saw a comment from a married guy with a kid who said he would divorce his wife immediately if she was raped.

It's never helpful to appeal to emotion while trying to make an argument. There are several factors at play here.

More sexual partners negatively impacts a woman regardless whether it was consensual or rape. By the same token, one more partner doesn't have that much of an impact so this is therefore a straw-man argument.
Rape has psychological consequences on the victim. That's a known fact. Many times (but not always) this may negatively impact the victims ability to engage in healthy sexual activity. This is also a fact. It isn't the fault of the victim but it also isn't the fault of their current or potential partner. Not everyone is up for the challenge of being in an intimate relationship with a person who has that kind of baggage and that's okay. No need to shame anyone for that. It doesn't mean a rape victim is unlovable, it means that loving a rape victim may be more of a challenge.
You saw one comment of one guy who'd immediately divorce his wife if she was raped and you draw conclusions from that for all of TRP and RPW?
TRP and RPW is about understanding human nature as it pertains to inter-gender relationships. Human nature isn't right or wrong, moral or immoral, it just is. We can change our behavior and how we deal with or react to human nature but we can't change our actual nature. We can take on a second nature but this is extremely difficult and takes many years of hard work.

Guy likes girl enough that he'd want a LTR, despite being redpill, but the mere fact that she was raped means he shouldn't even give it a shot? So in a perfect red pill, "non-feminist" world, women who have been raped would all be doomed to be single forever because no one would even consider them?

As mentioned above, dating a rape victim of either gender can entail a huge emotional challenge and commitment. Not everyone is up for this. If a specific man is honest with himself that he isn't up for that, that's good. He shouldn't enter a relationship because "how dare you consider rape victims to be unlovable". If he did so, it would probably have a disastrous outcome.

What do RPW think about the fact that such a huge faction of TRP equates not pressing charges with being a liar? Do they not realize that they themselves are contributing to an atmosphere where no woman would want to report rape because then she is suddenly of no value? Do they not realize how painful and lengthy the process of pressing charges can be, especially for women who don't have a strong social support network? Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/3f5r2r/gf_says_she_was_raped_on_vacation/ People suggesting he give her an ultimatum: press charges or it's over. Or suggesting he talk to her parents. Again...what? (I'm not saying he's obligated to stay with her, I just think he should decide that based on if he wants to and not if she decides to press charges or not).

Here's the deal. Justice works off of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. In order to get to that point, charges have to be pressed and the victim will have to go to court etc. There's no way around that. Is it extremely difficult for the victim to do so? Absolutely! But there's still no way around it.

Being accused of rape has tremendous implications for the rapist. It will likely ruin their life forever. This is a very serious matter. If we're going to ruin a persons life forever, we better be damn sure about it. In order to be sure, the victim will have to press charges etc. It isn't fair to ruin the life of a person without any evidence because the victim won't press charges. You keep focusing on the emotional impact of the victim, think of the emotional impact of the falsely accused. If a rape victim is always believed with no cross examination, no charges being pressed and no other form of obtaining all the facts - who's to stop a person with a vendetta from simply crying rape? It's the easiest way to ruin the life of a person you don't like. I can't think of anything more unjust than that.

Banincoming · 2016-12-16T05:05:42+00:00

This post seems like bait but I'll shortly answer anyway.

TRP is very selfish and utilitarian. If your plate becomes too much trouble you just get new ones. Cancer, rape, demands for marriage, they are all treated the same. Run away.
RPW don't want to date TRP men. They want different things.

Also, you trying to leverage rape and false rape to try to get the communities to attack each other or something seems slimy. Your post history makes me think you dislike RPW.

runway · 2016-12-16T16:54:50+00:00

TRP's opinions of rape are irrelevant to rape victims (and RPW and women in general).

PinkTulipz · 2016-12-16T05:50:36+00:00

Since TRP and RPW are different strategies based off the same/similar axioms and would likely yield different responses, I'm just going to respond from my personal perspective.

1) I am not a man. If a man feels that a woman who has been raped is a less suitable partner for him, that (just like physical attributes, family history, illnesses, and other factors that are out of people's control) is valid no matter how distasteful someone else finds it.

While, obviously, rape happens exponentially more to women, this principle is not necessarily gendered. A similar prejudice of my own, for example:

I would not date any man who I knew had depression or any similar form of mental illness. If I liked a man enough to date him, but found this out early on in the relationship - I would leave.

One of my exes had severe depression. It was a prevalent factor in our relationship. When I broke up with him (the first time), he attempted (and thankfully, failed) to commit suicide. It was a very traumatic moment for both of us. While my preferences from this point forward may have become brash, they are not arbitrary or malicious. I don't want to dedicate my life to someone with that issue. It is not something I want to take on. Period.

If my current partner were to fall into a depression, I would help him and stick through it, seeing as we have been together for a while; however, that is my personal choice. I do not condemn anyone who wouldn't do the same.

As unfortunate as it is, no one is obligated to be with anyone. And if I were looking for a man, and he was severely traumatized by a sexual assault of his own, that would be something I'd consider before getting serious as well. No one is "doomed." People are individuals. Excuse the anecdotal evidence, but one of my friends was raped and has been able to find a fulfilling relationship with a man I believe would otherwise be compatible with RP values. RP isn't looking to recruit. Take from it what you see fit, or don't.

2) I don't believe that not reporting is equal to lying. I also, however, don't believe that merely making a claim is equal to telling the truth.That is how justice works. You could also argue that women who tout "all men are rapists" or smear men's sexuality in general painting them as pigs is also damaging to their court cases. Do you realize how painful it is to be made public enemy #1, facing prison on the basis of your gender without any evidence held against you? I don't believe they are doubting women who don't report because they are women. They doubt it because women are human, and humans are capable of lying to smear other people's reputations. If I were to say that someone committed any other traumatic crime against me, but I refused to press charges, I am not allowing the case to come under scrutiny. This hurts credibility. I fully understand why a woman would not want to come forward with the accusation, and believe I myself would be hesitant. This does not change my position. I've gone deep through a lot of the research behind rape claims vs reports, and they are cloudy at best to me if I am honest. I am also saying this as someone who once held your position.

I agree that rape cases are extremely difficult. I am not agreeing with them that it makes anyone a liar. I, again, also do not believe that making a claim makes you credible. I have been stalked, nearly sexually assaulted (got lucky), and had more than my fair share of negative experiences in this department.

I enjoyed this question, btw! Hope the wall of text isn't too bombarding.

MsSadieDunham · 2016-12-16T21:23:32+00:00

First off, RPW does not encourage it's members to read posts at TRP because that's a man's space and things can easily be taken offensively or out of context.

While as a woman I can absolutley understand and empathize with victims of rape, I also understand why for some men it can be a deal breaker. That is a lot of baggage to have to deal with potentially for the rest of your life and some men may not want or be up to the task of doing that.

I compare it loosely to someone dating a person who is divorced and has kids. That's also a lot of baggage and unfortunately can be a years long battle between the parents. It's emotionally draining and I don't blame those who don't want to go through that drama. It's not the other person's fault they're in the position they're in, but others may not want to deal with the baggage.

Obviously rape is far more serious than your SO being divorced with kids but can you understand the comparison of baggage I'm making?

rainyweathergirl · 2016-12-16T16:19:48+00:00

It really don't think a woman's future husband needs to know she was raped. Personally I would rather leave something like this in the past where it belongs. If an experience like this still effects your marriage or future relationships, then you need therapy. If it was to happen when a woman is already married then it may be more difficult to hide, but not impossible. The police have an obligation to keep this sort of thing confidential from the woman's family. Personally I don't see any point in sharing something like this with your family at all. It's a matter for police and professionals to deal with. If you have kids it's a completely different matter. I would even suggest not even going to the police as in my country rape victims are subject to child protection enquiries and they can be really unfair and even more traumatic than the rape itself. I spoke to a woman personally that was raped and battered by random strangers who broke into her home and thrown in a wheelie bin and she lost all 3 of her children and they were adopted against her will when she did nothing wrong. knowing the authorities in my country I would never put it past them to behave this way. If I was a victim of such a crime I would keep quiet. If I didn't have young kids I would go straight to the police and ask them not share with any of my family members.

deadsandsushi · 2016-12-20T22:14:57+00:00

I don't think a woman has any obligation to disclose a prior rape to a guy she's seeing. In fact, that would be completely stupid. Get therapy for it if you need to, but don't ever disclose that. I wouldn't want to hear about the childhood abuse a guy I was seeing endured.

dottywine · 2016-12-23T23:59:55+00:00

Yea so I can't go into TRP because that kind of stuff just really irks me.

I can understand the "valueless" thing. Which is really sad, but I have been called an asshole for saying something like "Don't date a girl who's been raped". It is an asshole thing to say, I'll admit it, but being raped tends to lead to a lot of psychological issues that make having a healthy relationship difficult. I think it's crazy to say these women are undeserving of love or to go as far as to say they lack value! But if I were a guy, I'd be cautious. I mean, as a woman, I am very cautious of men who admit to me they have been abused or raped. In the end, the relationships ended and it was incredibly hard for them. Its just... HARD. Its a hard thing to have in your life (being raped) and if you're not mature enough or you don't actually love the person, it is hard to accept. Anyway, I'm sure some of them say she is valueless for the mere fact that she's no longer a virgin or some outdated crap like that.

And to your second point. No. They don't realize how lengthy and painful the process is. They have no compassion or emotion for it. I think that there was no love in the relationship in the first place if he's unable to be supportive of his gf. If it's come down to negotiations and whatnot, they would have divorced anyway.

This is a matter of individual opinion, btw. RPW are not as... I dunno the word... angry? Or out-to-prove-something as a lot of people in TRP are. RPW are very individual women who just care about their loved ones.

loadedgunmakeoutsesh · 2016-12-24T09:14:35+00:00

I dunno, OP. Does it make you feel any better that I believe there are no "bad" questions? And that I don't think you were trying to be "bait-y"? Even if you have more feminist leanings in your regular postings, you asked a legitimate question.

If people have an ideology, some aspect of which is questioned upon (correctly or incorrectly), and it can't or won't demonstratively be explained by it's proponents, no matter what the seemingly "apparent" insinuations/intentions of the questioner are.... I dunno, seems kind of a cop out to me on the part of the answer-folk. This is the internet. It's a simple matter to read what tone you want into topics you are personally biased about, or assume that every person is a cliché of the movement they can be associated with. And if the questioner is incorrect, all that necessitates is a clarification of facts, not assumptions about character/intelligence.... I just wish people would extend the benefit of the doubt a little more, and show more willingness to gracefully treat people of differing mindsets with patient, educational intent.

Sorry for the rant, but I will take any feasible opportunity to make this point. Just because I personally LOATHE feminism, would never mean I would engage anyone associated with it (granted they were being reasonably respectful/sane in their inquiry) as anything but an individual with unique perspectives and unknowable intentions until they proved to me without a doubt they were merely a dumbass trolling asshat. Then I could freely, and with happy heart, joyously rip that person apart, and condone others to as well.

TraditionalMan · 2016-12-16T09:45:02+00:00

There are different elements to this;

a) Men advocate not ltring rape victims because either i) they are feminist and/or liars and the risk of them harming you is high or ii) they really were raped and they would be significantly emotionally traumatized by it and that it just too much to deal with when there are other women to choose.

b) A man saying he would leave his wife if she was raped, is saying that because a woman being raped is still a subset of a woman being fucked by another man, and it is natural/normal for men to abandon women who have been mated by other males. It is a shitty situation, but he has no moral duty to be a cuckold and it is wrong for you to suggest he does.

Also, men have no moral duty to bear the risks of a false positive when doing so risks them being cuckolded. Saying anything less is cuckoldry and makes you morally illegitimate.

To do so would be like saying women have the moral duty of bearing the risk of a man being a rapist when he says he is not and risk being raped. They do not have such a moral duty. Women can deny being around men if they find them creepy. That is just.

50PercentTRP · 2016-12-22T17:17:24+00:00

I'll point out a few things as someone who's dated a few self described rape victims - and a third that I'm almost positive was an ACTUAL victim - but has never come out and been completely honest about it. Her anger towards attention whores around the rape issue - along with "bad things happened to me ..." I'm making an educated guess.

First, women seem to be less likely to separate things in their minds. Everything is connected. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxckAMaTDc

Second, women seem to consistently have more rape fantasies than guys I know. (I know a dozen women who loved 50 Shades of Grey. I know of several men who's wives have asked for rape fantasies. I know of no men on my friends list who have asked for / been into rape fantasies)

Third, what is rape? I see it being reclassified as "sexual regret". IE "I got drunk, can't remember if I consented or not". I had a girlfriend that would get drunk and remember nothing the next day and WHEN she was drunk was extremely horny, had all of her motor skills & was all over me.

So when you mix all these things together you have a woman who is going to inherently mix "consensual sex" up with "rape" by connecting things in her mind and this is going to be in your relationship. Or you will have a woman that's possibly reclassifying intoxicated consent with rape (and you could be next). Or you have a woman that is extremely emotionally damaged - EXTREMELY - and her coping mechanisms may absolutely destroy you.

My assessment of dating rape victims all centers around how a woman has dealt with it post happening and this is where the "did you report it to police?" question comes in. If a woman has empowered herself against her perpetrator then it begins the healing process and shows that she is likely ballsy enough to work towards healing. If she isn't / hasn't then there's a real risk there. HUGE risk of wasting an incredible amount of your resources dealing with someone who's drunken on emotional damage drama. It wasn't her fault but only she can find healing.

TRP centers around strategy's for men who have bought into the philosophy. They aren't trying to force all men to quit dating rape victims. They are warning men who follow their particular guidelines that it's a very bad bet for the reasons I outlined above and more. There are always other men with other value systems that will be happy to date rape victims (and quite possibly a more beta guy will be better for her healing process than a flaming TRP alpha)

Also women seem to consistently re-create rape culture. 50 Shades of Grey, pro immigration without understanding there ARE other cultures that are actually pro rape (and refusing to report on it), etc. They've played the rape card as more of a strategic thing than the horror it really is. So for men it's beginning to be treated like something to be totally avoided period.

Title	Question about RPW, TPR, and rape
Author	PoopEndeavor
Upvotes	14
Comments	64
Date	December 16, 2016 4:21 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/5imb7i/question_about_rpw_tpr_and_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/question-about-rpw-tpr-and-rape.86739 https://theredarchive.com/post/86739

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