The Normie Threshold

disposable_pants · 2017-04-25T17:09:44+00:00

It sounds like you're touching on one of the fundamental challenges of writing anything, which is magnified one thousand fold by the internet: Complex content is almost never as popular as simple content. This creates problems because:

Thoughtful content is usually complex.
Reactive/thimble-deep/unsubstantive content is usually simple.
Complex, unpopular content will rarely get out to the masses anytime soon, no matter how good it is, because simple, popular content is so easy to consume (and people will only read so much).
Points 1 through 3 create a negative feedback loop where thoughtful, complex content is discouraged because it's (at least relatively) unpopular and most people don't want to pour time and effort into creating something that ultimately has a small audience.

To illustrate this, say you like sports. You think you're pretty bright, and pretty well-informed about your favorite teams/sports/players, so you decide to start a sports blog. You pour hours and hours into researching and crafting posts, creating highly readable graphics, and generally considering all sides of a discussion before putting your thoughts down on digital paper. You produce fantastic content. You continue to do this for months or even years, but 500-word hot takes by Skip Bayless and "You Won't Believe Who These 7 NFL Players Married" pieces continuously draw millions of more views. At some point, most people are going to find better things to do with their time than work for free on stuff no one seems to care about.

We have the same problem here. You can write the most thoughtful, detailed, well-researched post ever, but if it's drowned out by a dozen "Girlz Drool Boyz Rule" clones you're not going to come back and do it again. I think the most realistic solution to this is stricter moderation -- just delete posts that do nothing but rehash well-worn ideas. Make a rule that posts have to add something new, or discuss an area that is hardly mentioned around here, or at bare minimum offer some sort of new angle on a more established theme.

EpicLevelCheater · 2017-04-25T16:18:30+00:00

This issue acknowledges that TRP is, or is becoming, an institution. Institutions, especially those depending in some form on new participants, usually have to address the multi-tiered membership issues. How to make it accessible enough to encourage new participation, how to maintain the growth once there' commitment, and how to make sure those who have true, persistent, high achievement maintain their level without atrophying when there's no more "growth" (growth in this case being fully unplugged and self-realized).

Usually in these cases management divies up the groups with assigned staff meant to shepherd each tier on the path to the next. It can be argued the mods have done that, or tried to do that, by making multiple RP subreddit for various issues. That's a good start, but not sufficient. TRP is still the flagship subreddit and needs to be maintained as such, funneling people out prematurely may not be the best idea.

If we're talking simply about writing, then I think the mods should start a recruiting campaign through PM. By scanning posts and responses, mods could single out ideas/perspectives that should be developed into independent threads. Then offer to review the posts prior to posting. This could lead to PM discussions that could suss out other ideas for posts while also fostering a mentoring relationship in the newer members RP growth. Again, the mods should likely divy up between them which level of recruits each one is scouting for and mentoring. That's a lot of commitment for the mods and one has to ask exactly what they could expect to get out of it all in return.

Alternatively, TRP could be left to the natural model, it will flourish then die back to flourish again and again and again, until it dies and the concepts naturally spring up elsewhere anew to restart the whole cycle.

Blacklabellogics · 2017-04-25T17:03:26+00:00

Back when I first became familiar with the manosphere in the early 2002s, it was very much a very "How to" place. The majority of information available was centered around "How do I get laid", "What is the best pick-up line", "What are the best openers" and various other highly applicable advice. Some gentlemen even went as far as creating complex flow-charts and decision-trees to serve as the process of getting laid. To summarize, it was very much a "How to do it" community.

After returning not to long ago, I quickly saw that it had moved from a "how" community to a "why" community , which was a big step forward. This is due to the fact that knowing how to do something is far from mastery, mastery comes when a person knows not only how something works, but why it works in addition to being able to improve upon both.

Isaac Newton built much of his work on the work of thinkers who came before him, Einstein built much of his work on Newton and refined it into his theory of general relativity. The next Einstein will likewise build his work on the foundation of Newton, Einstein, Feynman, and many others. When Einstein came up with the theory of general relativity, it had little practical application, but without it, we wouldn't have GPS systems.

TunedtoPerfection · 2017-04-26T05:41:20+00:00

Part of the problem is TRP is too easy to find now a days. It's a buzzword, a political movement, and a movie. The path to TRP is well documented and followed. TRP is no longer found, it is sought after. Men in ruin no longer have to find us. They are told to come here. This simple fact alone has shifted the quality of men TRP is visited by.

When I found TRP there was almost an unspoken requirement. This "trigger" event is almost so ingrained in TRP now a days that it has become overlooked.

I had just got off the phone, on the other end was the girl who of course I KNEW was my girlfriend. Well, it was her and the dude she was dumping me for. Oh and her 2 roommates who apparently wanted to listen in. So there I was, sitting on speaker phone, getting dumped to an audience smoking a bong. I was so blue I would literally wait between their bong rips to quiver some semblance of a sentence, probably along the lines of "But we can make it work, or can I still see you."

I was wrecked, how could the princess I was growing to love toss me aside like some trash... to a giggling audience and my replacement no less!

I googled hard that night(yeah I probably looked at porn as well). I wasn't even a reddit user but there it was, the sub that would honestly change my life right at the top of the search list. My search terms?

"How can women be so heartless during break ups"

I came to this place, shattered, broken, peering into the darkness looking for a guiding light.

You HAVE to come to this place shattered and broken looking for change. TRP can not create the crack that breaks the mirror of blue pull. Your blue reality needs to be cracked by those that created it. It's the only way you will have the heart and will power to break free of the indoctrination. That pain frees your mind. It opens your eyes to possibility of a different reality. It makes your brain question, relentless, everything you have been told about love and dating

You NEED that event in your life to look back at and say "never again." Never will I be so powerless. Without this event in your life, we are just a bunch of guys on the internet telling you a bunch of shit "you know won't work." Sure you can go out, beat your "AA", go slay some 4's your gonna call 8's, hell you might even get a plate or two! But without that life defining event to make you dig deeper, TRP is just a playbook. It's just a set of rules you think will get you women, until you find an unicorn, because you know your different and she is out there!

Without that event, and the drive born from that event, we end up with a lot of users who are looking for purely results. They want a list of ABC to get women to do XYZ, because they think that will work. It's not really their fault, they aren't ready for the knowledge yet. They haven't been shown the crack in the glass.

Game only truly works at the higher levels when you commit yourself to understand why women operate in the way that they do. TRP is about sexual strategy not sexual deception. If you want a list of things to say to get a woman into bed, you are looking for sexual deception. If you want to understand how to not only break free of a feminine controlled sexual market, but rule and stand above that market, you need to embrace TRP theory fully.

TRP grows way to fast for any amount of mods and helpers to be the sole solution to the proposed problem. Hell I made a burrito before posting this and 150 people had joined the sub in those 10 minutes. Personally to even begin to solve this problem the elder TRP members need to re enforce core of what TRP was built for. But the TRP community needs to take responsibility, through the content we generate, to make sure the true essence of this place is preserved and shown in every post.

Will some high level theory go over some peoples heads? sure, but the community must take an active stance to push WHY instead of HOW. You said it yourself, we have done HOW to death. To further remove the stranglehold women have on the dating scene we must understand the deeper WHY.

At the end of the day, this is human nature. 99% of people have the ability to comprehend this at a pretty advanced level. It's not about brain power, or intelligence, it is a matter of sheer effort. There are almost an unlimited amount of women available for you to test and confirm these theories for yourself. Some people can read theory all day, go for a walk hit up 5 women and have it sink in. Some guys will need to cold approach 1000 women for a theory to sink it. Trust me, you WILL eventually progress and get it.

The TRP mods and elder members can't control every post or comment. All that can be done is show a unified, concentrated effort to embrace the content that embodies the essence of TRP and move forward.

Will it get rid of all the posts of guys complaining about looks, money, age height, race, grandfathers 4th letter in his middle name? No it won't. But with a strong enough community generating content that pushes TRP theory. Hopefully, in time, that stuff will be ignored and fall to the wayside to make room for more insightful content.

[deleted] · 2017-04-25T19:31:37+00:00

Here is the thing with non normies, or naturals, in any field :

We look at the simple shit, and our biggest danger is complacency from boredom. So then we move up to the big leagues as nature and nurture allow. Then we note that the new norm is quite high, eventually.

We look down below and see the children swimming in their little schools. Two general thought patterns generally happen - the "aww, cute, let me help a bit" and "WTF, was I ever that dumb?"

Usually its a combination of the two. It does feel good to pull out a few of the new fish and have them succeed, watch them grow. The issue is that often enough, you wind up getting bit by a pirhanna that you thought was a grouper. And you stop giving a shit for a while.

Anyway. My point is, no need to separate, wheat and chaff will do it themselves. Give advice and help, and create good content when you want to , because you want to. It either gets picked up , or doesn't.

Skayruss · 2017-04-25T17:12:52+00:00

The issue with average people is that they refuse change. Most are afraid of change, in fact.

Most of the normies are also betas ( I hate calling them this, but seriously ) who want, as GLO puts it, vagina people, or anger stage incels unwilling or unable to move on.

It takes a special kind of a person to become self aware, realize something isn't right with themselves and to accept another idea. Shit, when I swallowed the pill I had an identity crisis and questioned everything I ever did. It took me a few months to shake the anger.

The normies aren't interested or yet capable for meaningful discussion or theorycrafting. They want an easy ticket to pussy, or genuinely need help from other men. Many of us had no proper role models growing up. For some, this place is a sanctuary with forbidden knowledge that we all should have "just gotten." I lurked a long while reading what was required and even then I still find myself rereading sidebar material and implementing it. Not every average joe is bad, because I have faith some will understand the information here. The others, though, that's up to the mods discretion if they start diluting what is established.

There's already a culture here. I allowed myself and my beliefs to assimilate, not to challenge. Others need to do the same. Let them cut their teeth, if they can't understand this stuff or refuse to, then they don't belong here.

Jakeisahooligan · 2017-04-25T20:54:58+00:00

There is a big price to pay for not being a normie. After spending a decent amount of time reading non-fiction and educating yourself with specialized knowledge, you will realize that 90 percent of the population has never picked up a book in their life. It can be annoying IMO. I feel as if I am on a different level than all the bloopies I am surrounded with because that's basically what TRP creates. A higher man. While it is funny to watch them be stumbled on things that are usually obvious to the type of person TRP creates, it also gets a little weird because I feel I cannot genuinely relate to people anymore.

functor7 · 2017-04-26T01:20:47+00:00

Seems like you're nowhere near that threshold if you think that calculus is the barrier to "advanced math".

19RomeoQuebec · 2017-04-25T22:49:20+00:00

Normie Threshold: Problem Solved

The problems in this sub are the super geniuses of pussy literature and theory. I will explain why.

Everthing and everyone follows some sort of system. You are born, you live you die. Really smart people forget these simple facts.

Never hold back, or dumb down content.
Without knowing, you have created a curriculum on TRP. This curriculum is level or tier based. So you have to start from the bottom, hell even just finding this sub is a worthy achievement.
Finding the Sub = GED
Reading Sidebar = High School Diploma
Participating in life and TRP via post = Associates Degree
Writing moderately useful posts and applying TRP tactics IRL = Bachelors Degree
And the levels progress. Those who post and blog, about Manosphere topics are the Professors. These are the individuals who keep content fresh and focused. They are able to adapt to current and future trends, and relay this information to the rest of the horde.

The day you hold back your subject matter experts in a certain field of expertise is the day you hold back and smother progress. I am not a super genius, I have bad grammer. But it is sink or swim, and the SOLUTION is simple. Let the smart people do smart things and let the rest of us catch up.

The easiest thing for this sub is a wiki, if you are so concerned about wittle normies. Then, produce a wiki that has a simple outline of what your progression and reading should be.

MattyAnon · 2017-04-26T00:22:43+00:00

The problem is that the farther we go the more Normies we are going to leave behind

TRP is pretty good at trickling down knowledge.

Female hypergamic dualistic sexual strategy distils down into "Alpha fucks beta bucks".
Navigating the social implications of female revenge upon the ending of a sexual relationship boils down to "don't shit where you eat".
Restricting your options and investing in this one special snowflake is generally a bad idea becomes "don't get oneitis".
I don't know the history of the hamster analogy..... but I bet one guy started talking about female justification mechanisms, another guy chipped in with how her mind spins, and another guy says "like a hamster in its wheel". It sticks because it works.

So we actually do go a long way to help normies keep up with the basic message and make it simple if not easy.

What we don't do is provide actionable... well... actions. Maybe this is good. Maybe not, I don't know. Actions without understanding are generally a terrible idea. But equally some degree of "do roughly this when you talk to a new girl" is sorely missing. Probably caused by excessive PUA hate. I don't buy "lift and be yourself". Active instruction is really useful for most guys (it's helped me a lot).

We have the human capital and the brain power to produce new insightful content for quite sometime. The problem is that the farther we go the more Normies we are going to leave behind.

It's the same as other fields of human endeavour. We find ways to structure things so the path finders create new ideas and content.... other people fill in the gaps in the understanding..... and then someone invents a snappy one liner to encapsulate it all to help everyone else understand it.

Cunt_Robber · 2017-04-25T16:38:23+00:00

Spitballing here... Make another sub that requires one to score highly on a test made from sidebar material to gain access to? Advanced RP or whatever, for shit that is beyond the scope of the normies. Anyone who wants to get serious about it can and will; anyone who doesn't gets to stay where they belong.

The best part of this sub is mandatory reading and it's unfortunate that it isn't enforceable.

reesechocolates · 2017-04-27T14:24:47+00:00

Normie here..... great post....initially I got angry but then I realized that's because I'm one of those average people you describe.

Here's my question.....how do I, as a relative simpleton, strive to be more than average? And I know the actual steps that you might highlight (lift hard, read challenging books, surround myself with people smarter than me). but my question goes deeper than that. how do I have the desire to not just be average? it's like as long as I have the essentials (food shelter water sex...etc) I'm fine. but I want more...please gaylubeoil how do I develop ambition and rise above the rank of Normie?

Roaring40sUK · 2017-04-25T16:22:26+00:00

I don't think pragmatism is or should be the preserve of the Normie. I am a pragmatist and I am super intelligient (cough).

Pragmatism is surely at the heart of TRP?

NeoreactionSafe · 2017-04-25T19:20:36+00:00

A great teacher addresses his student at exactly the level they can handle.

Top level posts are a sort of "broadcast mode" to all.

It's in the trenches where posts are reacted to and things steer into different (individualized) corners where the true magic happens.

We must bend things one person and one comment at a time.

PissedPajamas · 2017-04-25T17:23:45+00:00

TRP is a utility.

You don't bedazzle a chain saw.

gmenold · 2017-04-25T16:28:37+00:00

The spelling mistakes in your post are great, especially "intellegence" in the first line.

Intelligence, FTFY

Rufferto_n_Groo · 2017-04-25T16:23:21+00:00

Create Traditions.

Explore practical applications of TRP and game in life beyond casual sexual strategy.

TRP is a gateway. Life and how to live it lie beyond the gate.

Also, as mastery is gained there is need for new challenges. Challenges that break the rules established for those new to the game to prevent them from hurting themselves.

Other forums to discuss these things exist, and users will likely gravitate to them. Life is a natural progression, and you'll move through different headspaces as you acquire wisdom. Simply hanging around TRP for life is an ok choice, but it's not living to the fullest.

You only have one shot on this globe. If you leave nothing behind it may be better that you had never existed.

[deleted] · 2017-04-25T20:13:17+00:00

There is no reason to cater to anyone. The mods and the community filter out participants who can't follow basic instructions like "read the sidebar (all of it) before posting." That is the "normie" gate. Everything below that level is chaff and has no place here. This community is self-selecting to the maximum degree. Anyone not willing to read, contemplate and apply is not welcome here. They dilute the offerings and they dilute the discussion.

I understand your point about "graduate school" level game theory. There's no reason to dial any of it down. Those who can understand and apply it will and those who can't will ask stupid questions and be directed to the sidebar or to relevant archived material to bring them up to speed (or banned as need be). No post-doc courses are dumbing down their subject matter to make themselves palatable to undergrad freshmen, are they?

No, we have a number of filters and tools (the "no questions" period imposed by the mods comes to mind) that are utilized to keep the discussion flowing and free from entanglement like concern-trolling and sheer ignorance. Let this community continue to develop and grow into greater nuance and advanced theory while those coming in from the storm have plenty of material and userbase to guide them through the unplugging process. We very much can have both.

GentlemenMindset · 2017-04-25T22:33:57+00:00

There's only so much fundamental principles that can be laid down by our forefathers, regurgitated by our ECs and Vanguards, and simplified by some of the pointed contributors.

What we need is the encouragement of practical application. The initiative of having the chapters is a good step, however, we shouldn't consider approaching, passing a few shit tests, and getting a stable of plates a success.

We should consider differentiating between different situations and applying the correct principles and tactics as a success. Almost everyone's answer here when they can't get past a road block is a hard or soft next.

What if, and hear me out here, there is an alternative, outside the box approach? Mind-blowing right?

We need to build upon the fundamental ideas and realize that these ideas will change over time with the improvement of technology as well as people catching on to certain tactics. For example: the pick-up community's neg has become a laughingstock to the point where it almost never works. What did we do? Adapt and evolve.

Let's contribute to the evolution.

FieldLine · 2017-04-25T22:47:27+00:00

If you make it past integrals into advanced mathematics only the really hardcore nerds remain

You're hurting my feelings, I think that's the first thing we need to discuss

RavelsBolero · 2017-04-26T00:19:52+00:00

The problem is that the farther we go the more Normies we are going to leave behind. So what do we do?

Same thing teachers do: make stuff easy to digest. The original thinkers are the ones doing the hard work, explaining it to plebs is the easy part.

Mostlyright91 · 2017-04-26T01:42:20+00:00

I agree completely, the issue is being a normie and merely fitting into society is safer and, on average, more beneficial to your success than taking a chance and creating something new.

JackGetsIt · 2017-04-26T02:40:56+00:00

...I'm wondering if my recent post prompted this discussion a bit?

Of course I lean on the side of helping the normies as much as possible and here's why.

Where would science education be today without guys like Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, Bill Bryson and Neil deGrasse Tyson?

It's critical that a certain portion of the brilliant minds of any field put that power into making dense material fun and palatable.

It's also critical for people learning about the pill to be able to write and flush out what they are thinking and to get some feedback. If we are constantly poo pooing and banning these posts then someone that might have become a great high level contributor is snuffed out.

I've read some comments in this thread that suggest a deep level redpill with entry standards but I don't think that's the best idea. Maybe we do need a 'redpill for dummies' sub or an 'everyday/pragmatic redpill sub' how about a 'redpill authors' sub where people post drafts for feedback?; we nearly already have a redpill for dummies sub in the form of asktrp. A redpill for dummies sub might be a place to send newbs that refuse to read the sidebar or a place for meta posts. Some of the teens over the summer inevitable try to create a sub like this and always fail because they don't have the support from the veterans. Unfortunately the community of redpill related subs is getting a bit unruly lately in general so I doubt creating another sub is a magic bullet. Just thinking out loud.

Thinking about the redpill authors sub some more. It could be a place where banned but potentially good posts are sent for revision? This would allow the mods to delete more posts without the fallout that newbs and normies get turned out in the cold?

edit 1. Another spin off sub might be 'redpillscience' where evolutionary psychology, biology, and other fields related to gender relations that produce articles that might support redpill theories are posted and discussed. This sub would feed more quality, well sourced, well written main redpill articles as a bonus.

GreenPiller · 2017-04-26T04:19:56+00:00

GET OFF MY REDPILL NORMIES!! REEEEEEE

Skiffbug · 2017-04-26T05:37:19+00:00

Why not have an TRP_Advanced sub in which you do go into further intricacies? As I read, at the moment we have AskRP as an entry-level sub where beginners can get a bit of a feel reading through noob questions. RP currently intersperses between low level repeating of the basic tenets, Field Reports, and advanced stuff.

Normies can follow links to the advanced sub, but will likely have a short stay, while more eager readers with fight through.

Ether_Freeth · 2017-04-26T08:32:41+00:00

As admirable as it is to want to police quality content to a high degree , and elevate the masses through it. Or even to polish the exterior to make it more palatable.

The core of the red pill is that it remains an uncomfortable truth and it is up to the individual to improve and educate themselves. We can not do it for them. The truth of the matter is that in all walks of life we will have to wade through the bullshit either of our own creation or that of others. Those who are not capable to do so are inherently not equipped to deal with what is required to truly understand. As such I believe learning to "read between" the lines as well as filter negative content on a personal level can be considered a test/right of passage in and of itself both in regards to red pill truths as much as other avenues in life resulting in finally becoming an independent person whether male or female.

For all that we lament the indoctrination of misandrism (the extreme form of women's rights under the guise of feminism) and all the misery it has brought us as men and women. We should actively strive to not repeat its pitfalls in a futile attempt to appeal to the masses or dogmatic fanatics. Because if we do we are no better then the miscreants we accuse them of being.

Again I do agree we should seek a high standard for our content as a community where possible. But we would be in error to fragment or police too heavily our community. Which I fear might end up either ineffectual or the mirror image of what we decry in our opponents namely a censored/ too our ideology politically correct narrative. Which will stifle not only our ability to expand on our sexual strategy narrative but also that of personal improvement. As wel as resulting in our mods doing more then can be reasonably demanded of them.

Discord, disagreement and factually incorrect assumptions inevitably are the result of our search for greater and better understanding in all walks of life. And as such we should not fear it but embrace it. All that we should fear is not learning from our mistakes and repeating them while hoping for different outcome.

Edited: some words and an attempt at better clarity for my ramblings.

NaughtyFred · 2017-04-26T11:48:17+00:00

The problem is thinking intelligently about trp inevitably leads to the conclusion that trp is exacerbating the problem it's trying to solve.

Original_Dankster · 2017-04-27T15:40:09+00:00

"...Relationship negotiation strategies."

I could write some pretty solid field reports on this, I have negotiated relationships with women on almost 100% my terms alone, for over 25 years now. Thanks for the inspiration, I'll get cookin' on a few posts.

bigredchewinggum · 2017-04-27T23:44:00+00:00

I say leave the normies behind. Catering to them will only result in mediocre content. The art museum world doesn't cater to normies. Neither does academia. Why should TRP?

GayLubeOil · 2017-04-25T16:09:25+00:00

Architects, construction workers, and Cindy bigtits from HR

They all build and man skyscrapers, Of course, Cindy never met Architect Andy, and he would have called her a cunt anyways

G_Petronius · Tue Apr 25 17:02:10 2017 UTC

If there's need for a fix, then it should be a private sub for picked members who've demonstrated knowledge and common sense. Somewhere you can post and discuss with a reasonable expectation that you won't have to face the same 10 elementary misunderstandings over and over again. I'd post in a place like that.

Brennus390 · 2017-04-25T22:50:12+00:00

Fucking normies need to get out

REEEEEEE

wench_enabler · 2017-04-25T17:47:11+00:00

The problem is, TRP along with most other MRA groups or whatever appear to be 'fringe' or 'far right' and misogynistic. You are going to have a hard time having 'normies' commit to more than just the surface level of TRP which is sexual strategy essentially. Pragmatism beats ruminating over esoteric cultural nuances and axioms that encompass this Matrix. TRP is stratified into distinct levels of user participation: angry new users, new users, veteran contributors, etc. etc.

Ultimately, TRP is about power and reclaiming it for oneself. A key point is that those who are 'plugged in' serve as fodder for the system that has become decidedly pro-feminist and misandrist. Men are disposable sources of money/flesh and lubricate the cogs of this machine. Reminds me of Foucalt's idea of biopower (perhaps I am misinterpreting) in that the administrative pursuit of empowering women has crippled soft men and created a distorted playing field in the sexual market.

A big appeal of the TRP is that it offers a solution, a panacea, an emancipation from the cycle of 'dating'. It's like that saying...you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. In a world where a woman can do no wrong and will be greeted with chants of "you go girl!", it is refreshing to find a place where it's ok for a guy to be a GUY without putting the filters on. Moreover, the underlying message to "git gud" and never settle for mediocrity is a wonderful anti-thesis to the "just be yourself" and "you're beautiful the way you are" mantras of the forever mundanes.

JudoMonk · 2017-04-25T17:48:37+00:00

There are so many normies here that are terrified of women it's hilarious. Instead of improving themselves to become confident red pill men they are stuck on trying to protect themselves from being hurt by girls and whining like children. Most advanced members have moved on to learn more from the masters rather than listening to the little boys here.

PornBlocker · 2017-04-26T06:28:04+00:00

I just visited trp to check if you guys are still insane, this is the second post I saw...

The-Wizard-Pendragon · 2017-04-26T07:46:32+00:00

People really think like this? Lmao

max_peenor · 2017-04-25T16:41:30+00:00

We can ignore our Normies and only write for our readership with a curious mind.

I don't know. Would Socrates have invited the slaves to the forum for the debate? Probably not. Spreading the "truth" to the simple folk is how religions start. Is that what we want? Or are were here for us?

LiveLikeAMan · 2017-04-25T17:26:57+00:00

Natural progression. You lose people at every stage as you mentioned. It happens with everything in life, we all have a threshold we can't pass. You can change the appeal thereby getting more people that cross that threshold. Personally i've always seen TRP as a toolshed where i take the tools(from theory to field report) needed to fix/upgrade parts of me.

GayLubeOil · 2017-04-25T17:53:11+00:00

You smart for a gym brah! Seriously it was your comments regarding has all the good stuff already been covered that inspired my post on women acting like children due to exposure to genuine alpha behaviour. Keep pushing the envelope. Also quit that fuckin' neck beard passeeeoooo and try your brain out with some real esoteric steroids.

Windryder · 2017-04-25T19:51:31+00:00

The one that stood out to me was "philosopher" at 105.9

Lesic · 2017-04-25T20:03:54+00:00

Advanced techniques sometimes seem to be in conflict with low and mid level ones.

chaseemall · 2017-04-25T20:22:16+00:00

Why not both?

Seriously, why not have the "How to get laid stuff" with Heartiste et. al. and the "The dating market can be conceptualized using elliptic curves to decrypt the wiles of women" people with Devlin and Rollo?

NovicePilgrim · 2017-04-25T21:59:13+00:00

The average guy does not consider himself "average".

cantFindValidNam · 2017-04-25T23:54:08+00:00

TRP isn't a company or a political party and normies aren't customers or potential voters. Why does it matter if they leave?

StrangerDanGer707 · 2017-04-26T00:31:13+00:00

Let's get something clear right now. If you think red pill is hard topic, then to be honest I don't know what advice would be appropriate for you in this given situation. I stopped watching your post at calculus. I disagree, it's wonderful topic. Stop seeing things differently ✋, every topic you will come across at your point in life will have the same learning curve. First you will think you know, then you would realize how much you don't know, and when you pass this phase you will start enjoying the fruit of your labour. My advice to you is, stop seeing things differently 🤘🔭

[deleted] · 2017-04-26T00:34:39+00:00

The red pill is not full of lawyers and executives. It's full of horny college students. Which is why discussion barely goes beyond how to get your dick wet.

burnyr · 2017-04-26T04:20:43+00:00

Wow, this shit was spot on. I've never thought of it this way, but OP nailed it. I'm a normie. I don't want to change shit, I don't want to learn or understand shit. I just want sum fuk with the vagina people.

alvlear · 2017-04-26T09:10:11+00:00

Normies, also known as sensors.

Most of the fundamental curricula are designed for these people, about 80% of the population. The material is systematized and dumbed down to facilitate mindless drills. As you said, normies never ask why. They don't care about the theory, or how it originated. This was fantastic for an early 20th century economy.

I recently began reading mathematics and physics by the masters themselves -- old books. And I practically feel betrayed by my previous teachers. Oh well.

BTW, GLO, calculus is way too optimistic here. It turns out algebra is the real sieve: http://archive.is/hN0gf

Bear-With-Bit · 2017-04-26T09:28:00+00:00

There's an old Korean saying: Teach one lesson and they'll learn ten. It summarizes critical understanding and self-motivation. A good student would rather apply a lesson immediately than allow the teacher over-explain it.

Unlucky_Leader · 2017-04-26T12:45:33+00:00

Assuming Reddit stays relevant for the next twenty years how the hell is TRP set up for this long-term?

There is a yin-yang to this: stimulate progress, in this case, content, while holding onto the core values. Mr. GayLubeOil if I could recommend a book it would be 'good to great'.

Jim Collins book while centered on businesses could apply to this situation...TRP is already good but making it great requires processes.

wolfeman77346 · 2017-04-26T12:55:11+00:00

I recently read that, what every master has in common, is that they always return to the fundamentals to help clarify their path forward. This thread sounds like a call to return to the fundamentals for a bit of analysis.

A couple questions come to mind that I suggest need to be asked.

Exactly what is it that defines the separation between the Non-Normies and the Normies?

Why are Normies remaining Normies, and not progressing beyond?

What can be done to improve Normie progression? ..to push them beyond the boundary of normalcy?

If these questions need to be asked, then is what TRP has available....enough?

Can there be more?

What are the goals of TRP, and what is its strategy? How is it improving to meet its goals and expectations? How is TRP measuring success? What is the plan?

Perhaps, like a good progressive workout program, TRP needs a progressive learning program, where there are intermediate goals to be achieved, to build confidence, to encourage thought, and further questioning.

Clearly there is an Induction, and some 101. Then there is theory. Is there more than this? Can there be more?

If TRP is losing potential members because they are letting go of their hands to early, then perhaps there is room for improvement of the fundamentals.

Surely there must be more than segregating the members into "Normies" and "the rest"....

Blacklabellogics · 2017-04-26T14:10:27+00:00

I think you've got a great solution there. This isn't your normal shitpost it's an intelligent and interesting statement and it's written like you've sat there with thesauraus next to you.

Rollo is the worst at it in my mind, there's no need to write something in an academic and overly eloquent prose when keeping it simple and shit will do fine.

We aren't grammar mavens or linguistic snobs, so why not just keep high level topics simple?

Failing that just use a shitpost tag.

Jax77789 · 2017-04-26T14:16:15+00:00

This is the dilution of TRP. IM said it would become bastardized as we gain more followers and I think the man is right on the money.

I do not think pandering to the lowest common denominator is going to help. Complex words and elaborate concepts are here for a reason.

As for this place I think we should keep the bar high and ruthlessly delete posts that offer nothing of value.

yourmomismafic · 2017-04-26T15:47:05+00:00

It sounds like a system of tags to dictate what level of viewership your post falls under would be beneficial . Something like a standardized numeric value like colleges: [100][200][300], or something more explanatory like other subs:[beg][intermed][advanced][theory]. That would give access to all and allow sorting by interest. What do you guys think?

sunkindonut149 · 2017-04-26T15:48:22+00:00

Dating is almost universal. Becoming a doctor isn't. PUA doesn't need a weed out class.

Pepe_Prime · 2017-04-26T18:03:24+00:00

I love the title, good post

zephyrprime · 2017-04-26T18:16:04+00:00

"or trigonometry" Most people can't do trig.

zephyrprime · 2017-04-26T18:19:07+00:00

"It's pretty safe to say that we have thoroughly answered the question of how to get sex from women." This is a ridiculous claim. We have this question half answered. Much is still unknown.

indeydius · 2017-04-26T20:20:31+00:00

There's a different conversation we can have, but maybe not here. theredpill has been about what each man can do to make his situation better, but what can we do to make the situation better for men in general - our sons?

We'll probably have that discussion as Rollo's new book comes out sometime over the next few weeks. As an aware man with a son, I understand the value of shit-testing, but at a cultural level it has become severe. Boys getting kicked out of college on false rape accusations.. having to sit quietly through indoctrination.. having to disavow everything that hints at masculinity?

What can we do to turn the tide? I don't want that sort of world for my sons. I can give them the tools to help see through the crap and thrive, but I want to see cultural respect for basic masculinity in my lifetime or at least theirs. Not men's rights bullshit, just basic acknowledgement and respect.

sezamus · 2017-04-26T21:18:15+00:00

I know what GLO means. Basics had been explained over and over again. You have the sidebar, you have two editions of TRP handbook (I'd willingly share) so there is no point to talk over and over again about the same things.

We should develop and dig deeper. We should try to understand more and become manosphere's CERN/NASA.

Staying in the same place will put us in a regress.

wadlez01 · 2017-04-27T03:11:31+00:00

The basic concepts will remain in place for beginners while the more complex stuff develops.

I think the next step is to find the correct language to make the basics of redpill more communicative to non intellectual types.

GraphThis · 2017-04-27T04:22:01+00:00

Coming from a self proclaimed unintelligent person I say keep levelling up your content. Don't cater to anyone, even here there will be a top 1% of contributors and thinkers. The more you guys improve the more the rest of us will be motivated to get to the next tier.

Eventually the normies of today will be the GayLubeOils of tomorrow. Or at least I hope so.

GayLubeOil · 2017-04-27T15:27:43+00:00

I am done writing topics here about any kind of self-improvement because I probably get a bigger, less negative audience on youtube, but I was never a PUA; I mostly lurk and post here because my vision is for PUA, MRA, and MGTOW-- the entire men's movement, to combine under the banner of something like male-centric self-improvement, moreso than what it has worked together against feminism. I would say anti-gynocentric instead of male-centric, but the reality is female-centricism is biologically wired into the human race, we have to examine it just to mitigate it, but to expect it to be controllable in any large group of men just because they logically examined it is like asking to move mountains, so male-centric is a way of saying examining and mitigating one's gynocentricism, which to me, is fully necessary for self-improvement.

I have met some incredibly smart people on youtube, mostly men, some of them from comments they made on my channel, and I've probably mostly attempted to put more intellectual stuff on my channel without watering it down, which I am probably boring to many, I'm bad at speaking off-the-cuff, and speaking a bunch of theories and ideas doesn't make me popular. But the difference is I decide what my channel is about. TRP has a history of being about sexual strategy, and its description says its about sexual strategy, even though making topics that are critical of women might be at least as popular as that if not more; hell, I like reading some women-bashing if I think its good, since people in the offline, real world only do it against men and I'm sick of the double standard.

TRP seems wired to be more about sex than self-improvement, this is fine, and it might be unchangeable because the history of that. Self-improvement is fucking hard. You can end up feeling alone or beaten down, succeed one way and fail another. Many people around you can be failing terribly at improving themselves or the world, like they are all drowning in negative emotions, and you are walking a thinner tightrope as you look at the darkness all around you because the negativity is like acid and its breaking down the rope you are walking on. But improvement is so meaningful that without it, in the context of sex and relationships, the odds of these happening starts breaking down, so its even more meaningful than sexual strategy; and that is why, if negative thoughts and beliefs haven't totally gripped a person, they will always come back to the improvement of themselves, and possibly the world, if they are wise enough, as the focus of their life.

wiseprogressivethink · 2017-04-28T03:47:53+00:00

Useful analogy: Macroeconomics.

Economics is actually sort of a complex social science. Even the most basic and fundamental concept in economics - Supply & Demand - gets pretty complex pretty quickly. Aggregate supply curves meeting aggregate demand curves at equilibrium points that are forever moving as a result of public policy, technological advances, and unknown (and oftentimes unknowable) other factors.

So economics can be complex. And therefore economic policy is also complex. And therefore most average people don't/can't really grasp the nuances of a proposed economic policy put forth by a party or a politician.

Thankfully, we have a completely neutral and unbiased establishment media willing and eager to distill this complex subject down to its basics for the Average Joe! (/s)

No, wait. Actually, we've got a mass media dominated by leftists who know little about economics, but who pretty much all vote Democrat, and who are eager to sell a simplistic, easy-to-say-and-remember narrative (i.e., propaganda) to the masses that just-so-happens to benefit one political party (and ideology) over the other.

So that's what we get. Propose reducing the corporate tax? "Giveaway to evil big business!" Propose lowering the top marginal tax rate on individual income? "Giveaway to the rich 1% of millionaires and billionaires!" Etc.

(That's not to suggest that such proposals are necessarily a good idea. There are certainly reasonable, rational arguments that could be made against them. But those kinds of arguments aren't what the public sees and hears. They get the bumper sticker slogans instead.)

So. If you want to make The Red Pill more easily-digestible for the masses, you need to dumb it down while at the same time spinning it in a positive manner...all while summarizing its key points into something that would fit easily into a soundbite.

That's why concepts like "AWALT" and "If you do nothing else, just fucking lift" are so important. They get to the heart of the matter, are easy to understand and remember (and repeat), and have the benefit of being generally true.

BurnsVeecteem · 2017-04-25T23:01:13+00:00

The Red Pill has been around since 2013. The Manosphere has been around since the internet. It's pretty safe to say that we have thoroughly answered the question of how to get sex from women.

This is just hilarious. Nice pet project guys, the science in here is strong. I can smell it.

Futdashukup · 2017-04-25T23:01:03+00:00

No-one on this sub is getting loads of pussy, so get off yer high horse. If you were getting loads, you wouldn't be bothered to write that shit.

Sumsar01 · 2017-04-25T17:58:51+00:00

I can tell you the link you gave is dead wrong in the IQ department. The average surgeon isn't 50-100 IQ points higher than Einstein and Newton. Also, physics majors and professors have the highest average IQ of any field of study.

cashmoney_x · 2017-04-26T12:44:59+00:00

Get. the. fuck. over. yourself.

OneRedYear · 2017-04-25T20:17:07+00:00

|Every subject matter has a certain threshold beyond which people of average intelligence, can no longer participate easily.

I stopped right there. I'll finish reading but let me tell you now, when you hear this understand it's usually setting up a dynamic of "if you disagree you just aren't smart, or you just don't get it." I've heard that rhetoric too much from feminists. I already have my guard up. Okay. Now back to reading the rest.

Okay. Valid points. I give it an upvote. What to do? Write at the level you want and let people self select. I'm 50/50 on GLOs writing, mostly its his stupid attitude. I'm 100% on Illimitable Men or Rossi. Different strokes.

xXSoroxXx · 2017-04-26T01:22:11+00:00

Very interesting post. After being here for about a year you make a very good point. You can only read and start applying so many "How to Have Seks with Vagina People" before it starts to become second nature.

Personally, (and I know it might belong in TRPright) I'm interested in what Goerge Soros is doing in the destruction of western civilization(Funding Antifa Berkley protests, etc just google it) and how with the recent Bill Nye release on Netflix (Soros has about 300,000 shares of Netflix Stock) he uses Bill Nye to Promote "Genderless" people and open relationships (Breaking Pair bonding further destroying the nuclear family).

TheTwiceWroughtKing · 2017-04-26T03:22:29+00:00

Hey OP, people are saying your IQ is dramatically below average. I can PM you the reports, they have your personal information and I don't want to share it publically, but can you first confirm that you're below average intelligence allows you to perceive this writing?

ShortyThrowaway87 · 2017-04-26T13:33:54+00:00

Disagree entirely. The concepts of relationship negotiation and cultural differences in game are nuanced and complex? Really? Also what on earth is that table all about? BRB basketball players with average intelligence of 9000. Fine artists are 'average people that don't have to improvise'? You're aware that IQ isn't generally measured past 200 and 99.999% of people from any profession on that list wouldn't be within 35 points of 200? I just don't see the point in that table unless you're making a point about intelligence correlating to potential career earnings..?

I believe that the 'complex nuanced topics' you speak of are actually relatively simple and easy to understand and master. I find and always found that the application of concepts on here came relatively easily. My flatmate did too and he's of very average intelligence. I'm sure I could teach the Redpill to any man who wanted or cared to learn it. Most don't - that's the issue.

I feel that the people of true high intelligence will eventually drift away from the forum, having used the sidebar material to get ahead in their life on a financial level, a personal level and also with regards to their sex lives. I believe that they will start to realise that there is more to life than endless sexual encounters, money, lifting and being 'alpha'. Genuinely it took me 2 years to add 150 notches to my belt, switch careers to something I am absolutely passionate about and pays well and get in the 1000lb club in powerlifting. Like, it's really not that difficult and i don't say those things to boast, they are just facts.

And before I get branded a 'normie', I say this as someone who is generally in the category of 'was "Redpill"...now starting to grow out of it', and who has an objectively higher than average level of intelligence by most commonly accepted metrics (top 1% academically at high achieving school, current, registered MENSA member with IQ test scores of 141, 142 and 146 on the general test, taken 5 years apart). I just don't think the concepts on here require that level of intelligence, it's overkill, and I don't think that a person of average intelligence 'a normie' could not do the same, fairly easily.

TBH the whole post just reads like the self-aggrandising, smarter/more enlightened than thou stuff that is making this forum a parody of its former self. Like for God's sake you're talking about how to get women into bed and why women prefer white guys over Asian guys, and some of you are banging on like you're writing a thesis on quantum mechanics or debating Nietzsche or something. I have no real point here but I am a person of higher intelligence who is and has been 'Redpill', and I just have to say, your'e giving yourself far, far too much credit here, and you're doing none Redpill 'normies' a disservice by assuming you're more intelligent than they are.

IIlllIllIIIllIl · 2017-04-25T16:14:25+00:00

Hahaha, high level content as always.

This is my journey I give to no one else, it was mentioned previously as a glitch in another post. Something I would like to discuss further, because it holds weight.

I don't fuck women I'm into with the intent of long term. I'm into very few women, do NoFap, and generally kick ass all around at life. The most recent woman I was into, this mindset turned her upside down. I can't say for certain, but I would like to believe my lifestyle opens the door to shifting the perspective for women.

Filet.

Title	The Normie Threshold
Author	GayLubeOil
Upvotes	354
Comments	168
Date	April 25, 2017 3:58 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/67hg9p/the_normie_threshold/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/the-normie-threshold.42819 https://theredarchive.com/post/42819

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