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[–]towerandhorizon 196 points197 points198 points 4 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
Attractive women will always have multiple options they can exercise at choice. A lot of times, if they find the person(s) they are looking for, they close up shop until they are on the market again (if ever). Ghosting is usually rude, but the quicker you can let go of the resentment, the faster your positive energy will be able to be used with the next ladies that come into your life. Every romantic relationship you ever have will end at some point, unless/until you find the person who would hold your hand as you pass away. Better to find out you weren't that woman's first choice, sooner than later.
[–]amb56 20 points21 points22 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is very wise, take notes guys
[–]PsychoWorld 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Hear hear. I’ve gotten used to women ghosting, no point in disliking it.
On the flip side, it’s nice to know that once a woman has a partner, she’ll almost always become disinterested in other guys.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I actually sadly have to disagree brother. My best friend talked about how many chicks would tell him after sex about their boyfriends. He's a boxer so he laughed at their threats if they found out I do think he got into two fights at different parties cuz of girls in relationships coming on to him and the boyfriend seeing.
[–]PsychoWorld 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Those are unhappy women who were already wanting to get out. Sucks their characters are so low.
Who knows though? I might be wrong, but I think most women just want one guy who they're satisfied with.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The women you want are the ones you mentioned yes.
[–]FaithInStrangers94 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If every guy on earth completely ignored every woman for a week or two the tables would turn (or there’s a chance it would backfire and they’d all go lesbian)
[–]h7hh77 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Woah, if I ever get to rule the world, I'm doing that asap. That and getting rid of mosquitoes.
[–]theundeadwombat 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The reason why we haven’t gotten rid of mosquitos is because the bees are fucked
[–]banditcleaner2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is so stupid lmao, you think people can’t go one single week without a relationship? Jeez
[–][deleted] 37 points38 points39 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
if you could choose you would probably be picky too.
[–]Therocksays2020 100 points101 points102 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
If the distance is a big factor they weren’t that into you. Think about the times you were really into someone. The distance wasn’t a big factor. You made that sacrifice because you really wanted to see them.
[–]FaithInStrangers94 23 points24 points25 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Modern dating and dating apps makes everyone feel so disposable and interchangeable that it’s pretty impossible for anyone to be that into you until you, especially before you’ve even met, and especially if they have a whole pool of other options
[–]Therocksays2020 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
If the distance is a big factor they weren’t that into you. Think about the times you were really into someone. You went through any length to see them. 45 minutes is nothing.
In LA you can live 3 miles away and it takes a 30 minute drive to see you
[–]tundahouse 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Walk. It’s quicker
[–]banditcleaner2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Walking 3 miles is not quicker 3 miles at 8 minute running pace is 24 minutes my guy
[–]tundahouse 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You said it takes 30 minutes to drive 3 miles. I suggested walking instead of driving.
[–]banditcleaner2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yeah you said walk because it’s faster and I’m telling you it is not faster unless you’re literally running
[–]tundahouse 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don’t know dude. I’m in Europe. We walk pretty frequently. Like a 30 minute walk isn’t far
[–]banditcleaner2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok…but…like…walking 30 minutes somewhere is the same time as driving to the same place in 30 minutes I really don’t understand how you’re not getting it
[–]tundahouse 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I understand that. But 3 miles isn’t far. If it takes 30 minutes to drive 3 miles I’ll rather walk and save on the fuel personally
[–]ModeratorElbynerual 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
👆
[–]montanalombardy 49 points50 points51 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That sounds like an excude rather than being picky tbh. She didn't like you and used the distance as an excuse.
But with that said, yes women are very picky.
[–][deleted] 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
These days even moderately attractive girl has a lot of opportunities to get with high-value males. Probably you weren't the best candidate for longer relation in her eyes at that moment. Yes, women are picky, depending on level of attention they are receiving and quality of men approaching on them. But sometimes you may hack biology and just hit the right spot of the right girl in the right moment.
[–]FaithInStrangers94 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why is that? Is it because most high value guys will still jump at the chance to stick their dick in something?
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Because they are easy lays.
[–]FaithInStrangers94 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Is that because they like the feeling of having sex regardless of who it’s with or because they want to run off and tell their friends they just had sex even if it’s with a woman they’re not attracted to
[–]PsychoWorld 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They probably just don’t see these guys as real until they meet and had some kind of escalation. Kissing, sex, etc. those tend to be signs of approval
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
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[–]no_not_this 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Rest assured her pics are filtered and she’s 3 points higher on the app than what you saw on the bus.
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah, it’s just kind of crazy to me seeing that first hand, it just goes to show how selective she can be. Interesting to see it play out in real time, that’s pretty much why I posted. Pretty new to this, so it’s all just a learning experience rn lol.
[–]ZaynahAnimeLover 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I dated a guy for 2 years who was 35 min away from me. Honestly the drive isn't long I live in Houston so I can't complain. But then again I like driving. But if the girl really liked u and wanted to get to know u more she would drive bc 30 minutes bc in a big city that isreally nothing tbh.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yup, my thoughts exactly, I like driving too, but to each their own. Can’t really do much so I’m moving on lol
[–]no_not_this 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Dude it wasn’t about the drive what don’t you understand about that? If you were brad Pitt do you think she still wouldn’t make the drive?
[–]Dstar538888 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
exactly, the dude I'm seeing right now is like 40 mins away from me and we drive to each other all the time....that girl just didn't like OP that much...
[–]Zealousideal6669 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You just might do something wrong. Ofc hot girls usually have options so it's easier to go for guys who are closer but generally if they like your personality and you got your game right they always come back or at least most of the time
[–]Aliebaba99 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Yep, women are picky. Just like most men are biologically hardwired to want to impregnate as many females as possible, women are biologically hardwired to be very picky about who they let impregnate them. This is just the way of the world. No changing it. Also, dont hate the player hate the game. Just keep improving yourself and one day you'll get there.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Actually, men are forced to reel in their biological impulses to impregnate as many females as possible in favor of commitment. It’s not the same for women, so it’s only natural that the chads will stop committing when women refuse to lower their standards.
[–]Aliebaba99 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
men are forced to reel in their biological impulses to impregnate as many females as possible
By whom?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
By morality. Aka “cheating is wrong”. Women can cheat too, but why does she need to if she already is bearing chad’s offspring?
[–]Aliebaba99 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Wait im confused by your point. You say men are forced by morality to cheat, but cheating is wrong. So which is it?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
No I meant their biological impulse would be to cheat and impregnate as many women as possible. Morality dictates that it’s wrong but when when women get to be picky on their own terms (and getting the full benefits of acting out on their self interests, such as excluding men of less height, disabilities, wrong color, jawline etc) then men who got picked by multiple women should ideally never stop cheating since they’re missing out on their own biological imperative over something as trivial as “cheating is wrong”.
[–]Aliebaba99 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
women get to be picky on their own terms (and getting the full benefits of acting out on their self interests, such as excluding men of less height, disabilities, wrong color, jawline etc)
Dont men get to be picky too though? They are allowed to not sleep with any women they so desire are they not?
something as trivial as “cheating is wrong”.
I wouldnt jump to call something like "cheating is wrong" trivial but hey maybe thats just me.
then men who got picked by multiple women should ideally never stop cheating
Should women who get picked by multiple men (which is virtually all women) also "not stop" cheating?
I feel like your argument is: "men can't sleep with as many women as they like because women are pickier than men, therefore, if they have the opportunity to sleep with more women, cheating in the process, they should because they arent picky, and women are"? Did I phrase that more or less correctly? Correct me where im wrong.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yes that is the crux of my argument. Ideally men shouldn’t “pick women” aka not be picky, but if he was good enough to be picked by multiple women, then it would be in his best interests to mate with all those who did pick him instead of being committed to one.
[–]Aliebaba99 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well thats fucked up man. You should really reconsider your values and morals.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why do you think it’s fucked up when clearly morality is against your self-interest and also not good in the long run in this situation?
She has other options and made an excuse
[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
welcome to the 21st century.
girls are picky because of the attention that they get from men all over the world.
it's not hard for a girl to reach thousands of men anymore so their options are unlimited.
women lose these options when they get older but we, as men, are impatient so we try to impress the girls in order to make them choose us.
this is what all of the seduction and gaming is about.
some girls just want marriage so they are easiest girls to date with(not to bang, though) if you compare them with the other girls like gold diggers.
a real seduction master uses this to his advantage.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
women dont lose their options when they get older. what you see are the same girls you are ignoring right now. the ones you are after, will probably keep having the time of their life far away from you.
people like you think women turn 40 and become some kind of poor sad thing. Truth is they (can) keep banging young men in their 20 and 30.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
women dont lose their options when they get older.
I disagree.
I know tons of women who married with ugly men just because they wanted to marry with them.
what you see are the same girls you are ignoring right now. the ones you are after, will probably keep having the time of their life far away from you.
Sometimes yes, sometimes not.
A girl can be hot but her hotness might be subjective.
For example, I don't like yellow haired women that much but some men love them.
I had girlfriends that were hot but my friends didn't think as such.
I never said anything as such.
Their options lower down but that doesn't mean they become a poor sad thing.
They can keep banging young men but how many of them can?
This is the question.
[–][deleted] 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Women ghost more then ever. They use men for validation and then they ghost.
[–]BeautifulTomatillo -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I don’t think it’s for validation
[–]Appropriate_Mine4766 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh, it usually is.
[–]ftdrain 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean, I do the same lol, 20 minute drive is too much for most girls, but for the right girl I could go for an 1 hour drive, so there you have it
[–]150420throwaway 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don’t mind it if people are picky, but at least fucking back it up by providing some form of value and having the looks.
Unfortunately for women it’s a little distorted - one quote I’ve heard is “regardless of how you look, as a woman, you will have somebody fetishise/find you attractive”, and that results in imbeciles calling below average women ‘beautiful’ ‘smoking hot’ etc, because they think it’ll increase their chances of dipping their dick.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women do a great job of internalizing the concept that they are prize and don’t settle for less than they feel they deserve. It’s easier to do that when they dozens of options a swipe away, but it’s still a good mindset that a lot of men would benefit from taking.
[–]OptimusPavlos1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Only way for me to adopt that mindset would be a fake till you make it mindset or pure delusion. I think I would make a good partner, but women seem to disagree.
[–]krispykreme01 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just grind harder….they probably didn’t like you enough to drive lol.
Problems hit the gym they all workout.
Why shouldn’t they be selective? Much is at risk
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Is that picky though? They just want someone closer.
[–]Live-Ad-6309 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
At some point. "I want someone who lives literally next door" eats up all your options.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Not to mention we live in one of the top 5 most populated cities in the us. Going for a burger down the street can literally be an hour lol
[–]CowgirlBebop575 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
That's ridiculous. Not everyone is built for that type of traffic. If a burger up the street is an hour, maybe you really are too far if you are further than up the street. In NYC or LA. The GPS will say that you're 20 minutes away, that doesn't factor in traffic and finding parking.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Ok. She has her reasons and I’m over it lol.
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok. I just responded to the post.
They don't have to be literally next door. No one said that.
They probably have closer options, why wouldn't they go with them instead if distance is an issue?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Yeah it’s kind of picky imo. To each their own sure, but the vibe was there and then just gone at the flip of a switch it seemed. It’s kind of annoying tbh, but hey, that’s how it be these days. On to the next
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Why? It's a practical reason, not at all superficial. Maybe it's not a big deal to you but they may feel differently.
Imo, picky is making a fuss about a bunch of small stuff. If distance is important to them (perhaps they want to see a bf everyday) then I don't see how that's picky. Everyone is going to have deal breakers and things that are important to them.
Yeah I agree with you not superficial, just picky, I guess we have different views but hey, that’s how it is. She minds the drive, I don’t, not much I can do about that, so on to the next. I’m not mad about it or anything, just slightly annoyed that it’s been happening more than a couple times lately. Also, I genuinely like driving, so it’s just a different perspective between us, nbd really.
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, people having different mindsets are easily seen as picky, or making a fuss, or too sensitive. Picky has a negative connotation, I don't see someone knowing what they don't want (especially if it's not superficial) as negative.
What did you want them to do? Date you then bitch about the distance, then eventually break up with you over it? Be glad they know what they want and stood on it, too many people accept everything then end up falling out for preventable reasons.
Idk, I just see incompatibilities as life. After getting broken up with (and breaking up with others) after trying to work around things that were obvious issues at the beginning, I am glad when I'm able to skip all that.
That's just my two cents.
[–]CocoBabeNYC 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They are really not. But you are either it or you are not and it seems you are not. You are probably giving off the wrong vibes, maybe you are an excuser or needy or pretend to be cool.
[–]mellenix -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Unless your an 8, 9 or 10. Women look for things to disqualify you. If you can handle those objections/tests then you’re still in the game.
[–]rationalhippy -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You mean compared to the men you’ve been trying to seduce?
[–]shusain2991 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This is harsh truth.....
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Reality is a cruel mistress lol
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
what cuntry u in?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I bet you can guess, but US lol
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
That makes sense. The public transport can be terrible in many places in the US. If you don't have a car you can really be stranded.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
We both have cars lol
[–]CowgirlBebop575 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Perhaps they hate driving, who knows?
Distance can really end up being annoying, especially if you want to date someone and see them very often.
I dated a woman that was only 30 minutes away. After work, that seemed like a long time. An hour just traveling there and back, we hang out for maybe an hour so that's 2 hours and I still have shit to do at home. I also had to get up early for my job.
It got annoying after a while. Dating someone in your city is far preferable if you have that option. You'll see them a lot more, you'll end up having more sex, it's less work after a long day at work.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
We live in the same city lmao. I get it, It’s just a really big city. But like I said, whatever the reason, it is what it is and on to the next.
usa women r some of d worst in d world. dyor why. elder player here
[–]ebam123 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also some people do long distance relationships but same town sounds like its not a huge distance
[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Who cares about public transport? That’s for losers. I’ll never understand why people on this sub have such an aversion to the freedom and pleasure of owning a car. It’s not a strike against you unless you’re some leftist dumbass. If you’re a broke dick that can’t afford one you need to get some priorities in life. “Boo ho there’s no public transport….”
I’ve never been on a public bus in my life and I don’t ever plan on it. Why is driving such a big deal to people? I’ll drive 45 minutes just to get a burger sometimes.
It depends on where you live. Since I moved to Belgium, I really prefer not driving. The cities are walkable, you can bike or take the train most places as well. Now, the car is only really used for groceries and camping. The gas prices have been getting ridiculous and it hasn't largely impacted me, which I like. I have a friend that drives to work everyday, he is now paying a lot more money a week to get to work. It's to the point that he demanded to work from home.
I've been in some bad car accidents as a child so I still have a little driving anxiety despite never getting into an accident. In the US, there was really no choice in a lot of places you had to drive if you didn't want to be stranded. When I lived in NYC and didn't need a car, it was pretty chill.
People have different preferences, likes, and dislikes. Transportation is one of them. Some people really hate driving.
Now that I think about it, I understand why those girls may have not wanted to drive too far. Gas prices are high af in many places.
[–]dantherestless 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The distance excuse is bullshit. Ghosting is like a horrible mechanism that I am sure they do to everyone, despite the reason. I really believe people fall into those 3 categories: Romantic, Maximizer, and Hesitator. I feel more and more people are becoming maximizers (looking for the next best thing) and most of them won't ever keep it when they actually find it. If you're a good person and there was a vibe there and she left, if she has any sense, she will regret it. Keep doing you!
[–]MistyMaisel 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sounds like them trying to nicely let you down to me. But also, gas prices are ridiculous right now. So. Honestly, could be that.
Everyone is if they have option. A girl will choose Zayn malik over you if she can
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Eh, he’s not as dope as me. Their loss lmao
Idk if this is confidence or over-confidence
Lmao, I’d rather be over confident than not confident enough, but it was a joke lmao
[–]thabat 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
idk my gf used to drive an hour and she moved closer so she doesn't have to drive so far... So I think like maybe you're getting ghosted for other reasons.
[–]Joncal17 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All my ex's have been 40-1hr drives. I don't mind driving at all, plus you'd expect that when living in the middle of nowhere.
Kinda shallow to not decide to date someone because they're more than a few minutes away from you.
I think its great because you can take that time that they're driving to you to prepare for her or just relax or even having that distance is good for having your "me" time.
[–]kojack76 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They've always been picky. It's just worse now because 10,000 simps match/message/call them everyday.
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[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]Live-Ad-6309 5 points6 points7 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]CocoBabeNYC 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]mellenix -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rationalhippy -2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]shusain2991 -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]ebam123 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]daddysgotanew 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]CowgirlBebop575 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]dantherestless 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]MistyMaisel 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]thabat 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Joncal17 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]kojack76 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link