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[–][deleted] 182 points183 points184 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's not that indifference is attractive, it's that desperation is unattractive. Big distinction.
[–]Speedsloth123 41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah… indifference isn’t attractive, confidence (he feeling that you’ll be ok with or without her) is. She still wants to feel wanted. Nobody wants to feel like you don’t even care about getting into a relationship with them
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Plus what timeframe is being used to apply indifference. Maybe initial discussions with someone could open a door. But in a healthy relationship, you wouldn’t be indifferent to your partner. Or, be in a relationship with someone and they be indifferent to you.
[–]Speedsloth123 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well even in the short term you should never be giving blanket indifference. You want to make it very clear you are interested in the person, but if she shit tests you or gives negative reactions, THEN is the time for indifference
[–]LucianU 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Outcome Independence is a better phrase than indifference. Indifference implies that, even if she says yes, you won't care. It's more like, even if she says no, you will not be sour about it.
[–]ImeanNoHarm521 43 points44 points45 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
In short, being real gets you laid.
[–]500_Burpees_Everyday 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
After 14 rejection the same night. But it's worth it.
At least for me that's true.
[–]mrnaizguy 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
True for me as well. It's a numbers game. If your success rate is 1 out of 10 approaches then you are a seduction god. Being comfortable with rejection like you are is key to success.
[–][deleted] 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
don't get "being okay" and "indifference" confused with being condescending and stuck up, though.
there's a huge difference between being respectful of a girl's boundaries and looking at her like she's below you.
unless she's already invested and has a history with a guy, a woman's emotional intuition is too high to get caught up in any immature games a guy might play to pretend like he's not interested in an attempt to attract her.
[–]Dontfeedthelocals 18 points19 points20 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Hmm, I've found the opposite to be true (with regard to your last point), and I'm in a current situation where I'm doing the same(with no idea whether that is the right move or not)
I used to hate game playing and couldn't see the point, but I also invested a tremendous amount in a woman the moment I got interested in them. I had all sorts of unbarably intense feelings and this would always either scare women off or I'd be paralysed by the fear of failure and never be able to make a move. (I've had counselling related to this and made progress but it comes back and seems to be pretty depply lodged)
But when I learnt to pull back, to truly act as though I'm cool with never seeing the person again, even just for a few days or a week, and convince myself to believe it, it would create balance and often draw the woman toward me. So I actually need to step back a lot, and I hope I'm right this time, but the alternative is not normal and doesn't help anyone
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
that's different. the example you provided says to me that you were emotionally overbearing towards her and the excessive neediness turned her off.
when you're cool with never seeing her again, you're respecting her boundaries, giving her room to breathe, and assuring that no matter what decision she makes about you, she can trust you won't be overbearing or dangerous.
this is different than the example i said which is basically being arrogant and condescending in a way where you look down at the girl instead of being equal and on the same team. hope that makes sense
[–]Dontfeedthelocals 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I wasn't relating to the earlier thing syou were saying, just the last part in isolation. Completely agree with the overall point you were making as a whole
[–]chatpal91 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
well while you did give an example, you also did say "any immature games a guy might play to pretend like he's not interested in an attempt to attract her." Which is what he did and it worked. And it worked for me.
The truth is pretending not to care can work, and does work, all the time. She could interpret that as respect for her boundaries, but that's not why he did it.
[–]TheOffice_Account 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
looking at her like she's below you.
This is a weird one though. Women are often looking for the best guy out there, and the best guy they can snag will often be "above" them, in some ways.
IME, when I've treated women like equals, things haven't progressed well, but when I've treated them as being below me, but where I behaved as a benevolent superior/mentor, those have worked much better. This jives with what u/Dontfeedthelocals is saying as well.
I don't quite know what to make of it. I just see what has been working for me.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i think you should technically be above the girl you're dating, as in you have you shit together a little bit more than she does. doesn't have to be by a lot, but a little bit. not above her in the sense that you see yourself as a superior being, or you're "better", compared to her.
Women are often looking for the best guy out there
not true a lot of the time. a lot of girls just want a normal dude, man. not a celebrity. you'd be surprised. the bar is pretty low.
[–]BluePsychosisDude2 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think it's treating them "lowly" like how a brutal king would see a groveling subject or something, which you are alluding to. But moreso seeing how far they are willing to take the interaction, while being willing to walk away at any point if its not going how you want it to.
A lot of guys will get all caught up in a girl and put up with endless garbage for the chance at her affection, but a more attractive vibe is like "I'll take this however far you want to, but I'm out if you aren't interested or throw too much shit at me", I guess it's setting the frame of the interaction more in your favor.
Most pretty girls have a dozen guys who would willingly be at their beck and call for attention, just to be near them, but the guy whose willing to step up and escalate is the attractive one. To come at them almost as equals, like "I'm here to give you a good time if you want it, and if you don't, that's fine and I'm definitely not going to obsess about you". This might be tangential to your thoughts.
[–]YamammyX 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i mean tbf, taking it from the woman's perspective, how annoying would it be if you had to deal with the fact that some dude's gonna have an emotional breakdown or go psycho if you don't feel the same way? Not to mention there's nothing more annoying to me than people not being clear with their intentions in ANY relationship. This is why those fake videos baiting gold diggers are so popular. Nice guys acting nice for sex and not just to be nice is basically the guy equivalent of a gold digger acting nice just to get a hold of someone's money.
The most progress I ever made in learning seduction is when I just made it a goal to interact with a 5 or so girls everyday while being perfectly clear that I was there to meet a hookup partner/FWB. After a while you stop caring if each individual interaction goes well because you're interacting with new girls everyday. Tbh I also stopped caring as much when I treated each interaction as an opportunity to learn and get better at interactions.
[–]Mq200 54 points55 points56 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Height, jaw, nice eyes and being eloquent and playful comes pretty close though.
[–]DivorcedConfused 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
This has actually been my strategy in dating post divorce and it has been amazing. I let the women I meet know that I am in no way ready for a relationship and that I can be a good friend, lover or both and that’s all. I don’t lie. I don’t get jealous. I don’t judge. I don’t put pressure. I have a great time with them. When on a date I give them my entire attention. Women open up to me about all kinds of things and I treat them well. I always take them out on dates (dinner, drinks, dancing, trips). I make sure that if we have sex that they leave satisfied and feeling sexy. Women often catch feelings but I hold steady and let them down easy and usually they come back for more.
[–]TheOffice_Account 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Name...doesn't check out, lol. Also, would love an answer to this question from u/fashionbrahh, because I was thinking about the same too.
"I let the women I meet know that I am in no way ready for a relationship and that I can be a good friend, lover or both and that’s all."
How do you actually communicate that?
[–]Mamalawmaker13 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Personally, I’d like to hear this straight out during the: getting to know you phase.
You can simply ask what they are looking for between the two of you, let them know you want to make sure you are on the same page.
Hopefully, the other party will be mature enough to have that conversation.
[–]TheOffice_Account 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Though I agree with you...
the other party will be mature enough to have that conversation.
lol, my experience has been that when dating starts IRL, women want a romantic "It just happened..." narrative, whereas when dating starts through OLD, women are okay with a frank and direct conversation about what each person wants.
[–]creamyturtle 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
by kicking them out in the morning
[–]TheOffice_Account 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
/r/notopbutok
[–]fashionbrahh 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
How do you actually communicate that / in what context? I think many might be in the same boat but it isn't really the easiest thing to communicate.
[–]pl0m 10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You have to just friendzone them and thats all. Treat them like its one of your best friend.
[–]DivorcedConfused 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most of the women I date are divorced women. I am in my mid 40’s and them in 30-40’s. All have kids at different stages. They have been through the same shit I went through. They understand. Some of them have no desire to remarry, have more kids or even cohabitate with a guy. I am clear. I say look I am just casually dating. I have no plans at this point to remarry. I had kids and don’t want more. If that’s not cool with you I understand and we can go our own ways. I communicate this either via chats early or on the first date if she is not a chat person. I am fit. I dress well. I make decent money. I am educated. I can dance and generally have a great time. The women I date are usually either entrepreneurs or advanced in their career. Usually they have had their share of shitty losers lie to them or use them. I have no need for their resources and pay for our dates. I treat them like ladies and provide intimacy for them.
[–]plaze6288 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I totally agree. Some of my friends that are the biggest dicks get women but it's because they're radically honest like you said.
You never hear them say that they like something because they think it'll make them be cool or anything like that they're 100% who they are and confident in that at all times.
Women can read that and they 100% fuck with it
[–]Smartdumbguy4 53 points54 points55 points 5 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link
Women are like cats. Try to pet them or give them too much attention they will bit you. Ignore them and they will rub up against you.
[–]DingusPrimeHere 101 points102 points103 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I clean my gf’s shit with a scooper and praise her for using the litter box.
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
King 👑
[–]kabukidookie 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
😂😂😂😂
[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Ignore them and they will rub up against you.
depends on how invested she already is. if you do this as some kind of ploy or tactic to get her to chase you in the beginning, she's gonna see right through it and next you lol. if you do it when you already have a history together then that's just narcissistic and evil
[–]Sultmaker_9000 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hardly, most men who get a sniff are thirsty as fuck. Men who are not always available have better things to be doing on their 'purpose', and are infinitely more attractive.
True but it’s gotta be genuine. If you’re faking she’ll be able to see through it and pick up on those vibes
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
yep that's pretty much it
[–]thelambofdeth 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link
This. People often fail to mention the "ignore" tactic only works if she's already invested in you. Go around ignoring women you don't know and see how far it gets its. It's most certainly not "evil" though...lol. it's simply a tactic that works.
[–]TheOffice_Account 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Go around ignoring women you don't know
Dude, I've been ignoring my hot neighbor for the past four years...surely, she must be losing her mind over me...amirite?
[–]thelambofdeth 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This guy playing 4D chess over here. She must want you bad af now. She's going to combust from pure lust and intrigue!!!
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
It's most certainly not "evil" though...lol. it's simply a tactic that works.
Gross
[–]thelambofdeth 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
You HAVE to be trolling...
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 5 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link
are you okay with emotionally manipulating people to get what you want?
e: holy shit imagine downvoting this. some of you are fucking sad
[–]thelambofdeth 12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Everyone manipulates everyone. That's life. That's how humans are. If you're not the one doing the manipulating, you're the one being manipulated, and that's your own fault.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
in my entire life experience i feel most of my interactions with people have been a mutually beneficial win/win with maybe 5% of them being the person tried to manipulate me with some kind of financial incentive in mind (craigslist scams and such).
as someone with an overwhelmingly toxic history such as myself (i've been a serious piece of shit on the internet), if i can still have empathy for people and strive for a win/win that makes both parties happy, i feel most other people probably share the same desire to do so as well
[–]thelambofdeth 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Manipulation isn't always super obvious, it can be very subtle, and doesn't have to entail a negative connotation. Its embedded into society.
[–]Psynaut 5 years ago* [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link
I don't mean to sound rude, but you seem incredibly naive. Maybe you have been playing it safe all your life, but if you get out on the court and play you will quickly realize that almost everyone is evil and wants to take everything from you. People cannot be trusted, people don't care about you or about fairness, they want what you have and will take it if they can. People are not inherently good, and anyone who believes this hasn't really interacted with people in any competitive way.
[–][deleted] 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]Psynaut0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
lol. Enjoy living your safe, uneventful, emotionally reassuring life. Your attitude is easy to have when you never have to really get to know people for what they truly are. You are probably very young, but if not, then you just haven't really gone for anything worthwhile.
[–]turdddit 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Here is by far the best article ever written on Radical Honesty. It can change your life. I practice it 99.9% of the time.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a26792/honesty0707/
[–]Lazlo25 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So I read it and all but I’m gonna lose a whole lotta friendships and screw up a ton of otherwise good situations if I’m radically honest
[–]No-Expression7100 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I personally don't think anything is more attractive than when you know your person truly just wants you and no one else. In the case where someone might try and dissuade them from you, they stand up for you with little to no temptation.
[–]appleandpeanut 14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Those Chad skits are so gd funny
In real life, I’d never be interested in Chad but the radical honesty and confidence thing is totally right.
Be a radically real and genuine person, and that will be one wildly attractive trait
[–]phillypiston 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A friend's female ex was Ivy-league graduate, full-on feminist, had a passion for battered women, etc. The relationship was off and on for a 6+ years.
After the third or so breakup, he started being a little more distant, a more "take it or leave it" attitude. He wasn't mean but wasn't going to pursue her since things had "ended" before; Her attraction to him increased ten-fold. That is when I became a true-believer in the real nature of male-female relationships.
[–]r3art 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You basically redpilled yourself
[–]Personal-Brain428 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So be direct
But yesterday everyone was taking shots at the guy who posted a field report with his direct openers and saying to go indirect and that you shouldn't show intent etc
This place changes it's tune everyday. It's so funny
But do you know why? It's The same reason 'coaches' all disagree on every single thing related to game. The reason? It doesn't fukking matter lol. If she thinks you're hot, everything will work. Direct, indirect, flirting, pushpull lines etc. And if she doesn't think you're hot, nothing will work
[–]Armybert 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is not a documentary, it’s fiction and shouldn’t be mistaken for the truth
[–]thelambofdeth 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Don't watch SNL, it sucks
Those Chad sketches pretty funny though would recommend
[–]Dontfeedthelocals 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've been rereading Models and this is basically it. Non-needyness (indifference) and vulnerability (radical honesty)
[–]burncushlikewood 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The term Chad became popular in Chicago in 2013, but yea a Chad is an alpha male who gets girls, and alpha male is someone who is confident in their abilities that maintains an abundance mentality, this mindset women pick up on fast. Speaking of 2013 I made many mistakes in not capitalizing in the opportunities I had with the opposite sex, always take the bang cause that open door may close one day. Also an alpha male has many partners and realizes he has much to offer to the opposite sex, and absolutely dominates in life, whether work, school, sports etc. Get in the gym and work on your game, nothing is more of a turn for a woman than a preselected male, or a man who is wealthy
[–]sadhak_x02 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The most successful men I've seen are dishonest with women. It's their confidence that makes you feel they're being themselves. They're not.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is fact
[–]Far-Personality63 -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Call me Chad!
[–]HammertonMili 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You know, beyond all these seduction posts and all, that is actually a very good stoic practice. Being okay with everything regardless of the outcome builds good calmer self as you take away the root of all suffering, your expectations
[–]surfmobster 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Makes sense most “nice guys” are not that nice.
[–]iAM_A_NiceGuy 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Indifference works while dating, try it in a relationship your girl will get a new ‘friend’.
[–]thegreyone3000 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hang on, tldr: so you’re saying you’ve gained a new insight based on fiction? 🤔
My argument: is SNL not fiction? It’s scripted isn’t it? Like other TV shows? I dunno I’ve never watched that garbage but yeah, what ever 🤷🏻♂️
[–]fapsober 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think the right word for that is to be equanimous. Its something I adapted trough 4 years dedicated meditation and mindfulness. Im now in a new situation where I met new people and girls which I didnt do often in the past. But even with my inexperience, Im pretty chill and equanimous in the most situations. I approached the first girl since maybe 3 years a few days ago and Im very inexperienced with them, but there was just a slightly feeling of nervousness in my body, my mind was relaxed and in the moment, so the conversation flowed naturally and I was able to hold eye contact and a deep slow voice. Its was a very beautiful and profound experience to notice this.
There might me still a little thought here and there to resist something, but it sticks only for a few seconds or minutes. So if I was in a awkward moment, after one minute its just the past and not the reality anymore.
This showed me, that meditation is key for a happy life with less suffering. And you are not seeking validation from women anymore. its not that I dont want to have sex anymore, I want just to experience the flow between masculine and feminine energy with a girl I like. And if not, Im okay with it and still feeling good.
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