Melanie McDonagh: Why International Women's Day is embarrassing

jb_trp · 2015-03-24T12:25:50+00:00

I've always thought this. Why do we need to celebrate women like this? It's not like they are any less capable than men. It's kind of degrading and sets a precedent that women normally wouldn't do all these things that men do so when they do do them they should get a pat on the head.

brokedown · 2015-03-24T13:59:24+00:00

I'ts about time we stop treating being female as a handicap. That includes celebrating them for mundane accomplishments like you would a 3 year old (You get a gold star! This drawing is going right on the refrigerator!)

SilencingNarrative · 2015-03-24T14:23:45+00:00

Celebrating women in this that or the other field isn't a feelgood exercise; it's a reminder of how impossible it would be to put the boot on the other foot and celebrate men's contribution in the same discipline. This isn't to denigrate women; there are excellent reasons why there are fewer women artists than men. If you wilfully excluded women from the salons where ideas were exchanged and artists mingled, and from the studios and academies, well, of course you weren't going to get them flourishing in the same way as men.

Nothing quite hits the spot like a good "just so" story. Its so satisfying there's hardly any reason to look for other reasons why women might be underrepresented in art or other creative endeavors.

On a whim, however, how about this? Making your mark as an artist is a huge risk to take with your career. For every artist that makes it, there are many more who spend the bulk of their life's effort in practice and who die penniless, alone, and unappreciated.

Gender roles have encouraged men to take risks and women to avoid it.

From "Is There Anything Good About Men?":

Creativity may be another example of gender difference in motivation rather than ability. The evidence presents a seeming paradox, because the tests of creativity generally show men and women scoring about the same, yet through history some men have been much more creative than women. An explanation that fits this pattern is that men and women have the same creative ability but different motivations.

I am a musician, and I’ve long wondered about this difference. We know from the classical music scene that women can play instruments beautifully, superbly, proficiently — essentially just as well as men. They can and many do. Yet in jazz, where the performer has to be creative while playing, there is a stunning imbalance: hardly any women improvise. Why? The ability is there but perhaps the motivation is less. They don’t feel driven to do it.

I suppose the stock explanation for any such difference is that women were not encouraged, or were not appreciated, or were discouraged from being creative. But I don’t think this stock explanation fits the facts very well. In the 19th century in America, middle-class girls and women played piano far more than men. Yet all that piano playing failed to result in any creative output. There were no great women composers, no new directions in style of music or how to play, or anything like that. All those female pianists entertained their families and their dinner guests but did not seem motivated to create anything new.

Meanwhile, at about the same time, black men in America created blues and then jazz, both of which changed the way the world experiences music. By any measure, those black men, mostly just emerging from slavery, were far more disadvantaged than the middle-class white women. Even getting their hands on a musical instrument must have been considerably harder. And remember, I’m saying that the creative abilities are probably about equal. But somehow the men were driven to create something new, more than the women.

Now, I appreciate an anti-feminist rant as much as anyone, when its solidly reasoned. But what I don't appreciate is making women the victims of history, and men the victimizers, simply because it fits the dominant social narrative. The truth matters, and if you are going to bash feminists, then slip your own nonsense under the carpet, I'm not interested.

Sorry, Melanie, I am not impressed with your piece.

Being recognized as human involves more than being celebrated for the exceptional members of your group. It also involves society at large having compassion for the average members of your group. Tell me about how much compassion the black men who invented jazz were offered by the surrounding society. It was probably the lack of compassion that made them more likely to take such huge risks, and drove them to greatness.

2015-03-24T14:33:39+00:00

Tbh, I didn't even know there was a 'women's day'... Just as I didn't know there was an "International Men's Day" - 19th November for those who are curious.

Since both days exist, there's no real issue here, other than perhaps the celebrations around them. But, to be honest, I didn't even notice Women's day had come to pass.

Kahing · 2015-03-24T17:40:40+00:00

I'd like to remind you all heaping praise on Melanie McDonagh that she's also the author of this.

scriptk1ddie · 2015-03-24T14:46:37+00:00

What upsets me about an International Women's day as celebrated by Google and Feminists is their lack of appreciation for women as mothers. Perhaps this doesn't quite fit into this sub, sorry. But that's what upsets me the most about Feminists, or the world's view on what makes a powerful women - a powerful job or status in society. They completely ignore the most natural and, as I've observed, most rewarding positions a woman can hold as a mother. It's as if being a mother is frowned upon in the world today. Apparently women aren't successful in life unless they stick their kids in day care for 8 to 10 hours a day while you go off to show the world you're the boss in whatever field you've chosen.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2015-03-24T14:39:06+00:00

Women are just as capable as men, remember. That means they don't need to have sunshine blown up their ass to prosper; after all, men certainly don't.

DarkGamer · 2015-03-24T16:41:58+00:00

It's strange to think about a gender swapped version, like a banner celebrating guys are knitting and being nurses and working as seamsters. The whole things seems rather pointless and patronizing.

paracog · 2015-03-24T11:27:39+00:00

What a lovely humane point of view. Does my old male heart good.

DavidByron2 · 2015-03-24T16:06:46+00:00

Maybe we should have a "international men's day" when the men who didn't make the top list of leaders, but did just as well as the sort of women featured on international women's day could be featured?

Like for example Ada Lovelace gets mentioned as much as Charles Babbage, but what about all Babbage's male students who were ahead of Ada? call it international beta male day, except there'd be ten men in this position for every woman I guess.

By the way has any woman ever performed a space walk and fixed stuff outside the ISS? Seems like about a dozen women have done "extra vehicular activity" of some sort. You'd think they'd only send up women considering how much weight and size is a factor up there.

goodboy · 2015-03-24T16:41:37+00:00

That was a refreshingly pleasant read. Thank you.

Omnipraetor · 2015-03-24T23:50:27+00:00

At my university, one of my lecturers (male) goes on and on about how women statistically are get better marks than men. So when I got high marks for one of my assignments, he pulled me over to congratulate me. He put emphasis on the fact that I was male whose first language isn't English, and said that I did a great job because of that. The praise felt hollow to me. I don't want to be congratulated for doing something right that I was supposed to do anyway - just because of my gender and nationality. Congratulate me when the praise were to be given to anyone on an equal playing field, not because I have a penis or come from a different country.

AloysiusC · 2015-03-24T19:22:55+00:00

In most Western countries, every day is International Women's Day.

pookabot · 2015-03-24T16:16:38+00:00

I mean, there is an International Men's Day too though. Do you have a problem with that as well then?

2015-03-24T17:07:26+00:00

As there is an International Men's Day as well, I don't see the problem.

I would only see the problem if women had a day and men did not.

Stevemacdev · 2015-03-24T16:28:50+00:00

Its not really celebrated in Ireland thankfully. We have mothers day and based on family thats enough for them.

skekze · 2015-03-24T19:33:58+00:00

Everyone wants to be special and you are and so is everyone else. Humans dreaming of godhood are just like a little kid wishing upon a star. It can't hurt, but don't put your hopes there.

2015-03-25T02:39:27+00:00

While I do think Int. Women's Day and Int. Men's Day are both really not worth anybody's time, I find it pretty stupid that the world is willing to celebrate Int. Women's Day but don't give two shits about Int. Men's Day.

For example, I have seen a lot of Int. Women's Day Google doodles, but never seen a single Int. Men's Day Google doodles.

It's just another double standard to make women feel like special snowflakes.

We create stupid days to celebrate the most arbitrary things.

mean0dean0 · 2015-03-24T16:48:00+00:00

I would be fine for a truly international Women's Day for the purposes of highlighting where women are still not treated as equal members of society under the law. But self-congratulation is not respecting human dignity and civil liberties; we all know that women can do awesome things, and anybody who says that women can't do awesome things because they're women is just as much a sexist as a woman who says the same thing about men.

If you're going to make an awareness day matter, make the topic being raised an important one.

Melanie McDonagh: Why International Women's Day is embarrassing

Comments

kill all men!

Title	Melanie McDonagh: Why International Women's Day is embarrassing
Author	jimrosenz
Upvotes	355
Comments	94
Date	March 24, 2015 11:20 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/304coi/melanie_mcdonagh_why_international_womens_day_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/melanie-mcdonagh-why-international-womens-day-is.985019 https://theredarchive.com/post/985019