Western society is too prosperous and strong

Fancy-Respect8729 · 2023-01-11T18:31:17+00:00

Millions of skilled men and women are keeping society going. The people at the top are replaceable.

hypotenoos · 2023-01-11T18:34:03+00:00

The weak pretty rarely rise to fill a power vacuum. Some kind of societal calamity will only make the powerful more powerful- just in a different way with fewer checks on power.

Rexagon_2017 · 2023-01-11T19:53:57+00:00

In the west only a small percentage of high tier men, smart and physically robust men, are needed to keep society running. These men work in the security apparatus and are well compenstaed.

This is so utterly at odds with reality I'm wondering if you're a leftist. Firemen, Engineers, Soldiers, Clerks, Butchers, Trashmen, Plumbers, Steelworkers, Welders, and so on are all critical to society and many are poorly compensated. Engineers are like the incels of all incels in college, but without them, the military machine would collapse.

KayRay1994 · 2023-01-11T18:14:35+00:00

civilizations live and die, they go through cycles and are ever-changing. I think the west, in the grand scheme of things, will be fine, because its always found its way. Through classical greece and rome, the middle ages, renaissance, enlightenment and industrial revolution, we’ve always been changing and evolving, so things will figure themselves out as they fall, then eventually rise again.

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-01-11T17:50:41+00:00

"In the west only a small percentage of high tier men, smart and physically robust men, are needed to keep society running. "

Those guys aren't the ones who are keeping the infrastructure intact though. Once the bus drivers, plumbers, construction workers, electricians etc. quit their job, you'll see how everything will stop working immediately.

"As AI/tech advances, the value of average men will only go down more and more"

At that point we'll be living in the next blade runner era. Highly advanced almost indistinguishable from humans AI sex robots will be available, so the value of the average man plummeting won't matter, they would just get one of those things and be happy about it.

CliffordThRed · 2023-01-11T19:22:03+00:00

Western society is too prosperous and it will collapse. It is unsustainable

GhostofCamus · 2023-01-11T21:44:49+00:00

I wouldn't personally put money on sexless men causing a societal collapse. With that out of the way, OP's argument is based on a too big to fail fallacy. We are very likely heading for a collapse without their help. The anger of the guy maintaining the airplane that carries you safely in defiance of nature who cannot afford to move out of his parent's house, those are the guys you should worry about. He's a real guy, and his gf is very attractive, so I'm not sure how you can say we're very prosperous if we cannot offer affordable housing to a skilled worker. Guess repairing a jet is just average.

draiki13 · 2023-01-12T00:02:17+00:00

As someone mentioned already. Western society is at risk because we’ve pushed career over raising a family.

Now to tackle the issue with men in the underclass. Men at the top don’t provide value to society. They extract it. From other men and women.

Elon Musk still needs a guy to set up his servers or to build him a rocket. That’s a fact. To claim value of the average man is going down is utterly insane. That also implies that either the value of women is going down or that women are only baby factories (because that’s the only thing that differentiates them from men).

Now about that forgotten incel in his room all day. He’s pacified right? Right up until a breaking point where Donald Trump, Andrew Tate or someone even worse with more power comes a long… whispers right into that incels ear and tells him there’s a million more men out there just like him. And now you have an army of men, who physically still very much overpower women, following misogynistic ideas. It’s just a matter of time, if we go down this path.

Opening_Pattern_301 · 2023-01-11T18:11:14+00:00

In the west only a small percentage of high tier men, smart and physically robust men, are needed to keep society running

Do you remember canada truckers' strike? There are your small percentage of robust high tier men needed to keep society running

02012 · 2023-01-11T18:23:01+00:00

Societies stability does not depend on marriage rates, the whole "single men cause conflict" theory is a US defense department peddled excuse for why all the regions they turned into war-torn hellholes are the way they are. China has the lowest ration of women to men in world, they are doing fine.

Society will collapse because the contradictions within the system reach the point where they cant be sustained anymore, and the "collapse" isnt going to be some survivalist fantasy, but political strife caused by emergence of movements aiming to solve these contradictions.

LordPeppino · 2023-01-12T04:14:04+00:00

Now in a country like Venezula

As a Venezuelan, you would be surprised about how many deja vu I've had in western capitalism.

I'm not saying that western society will become Venezuela, but we shouldn't underestimate how fast a society can decline.

Aside social issues, people are struggling with the current economy

BirdMedication · 2023-01-11T18:07:08+00:00

It's not because Western society is too prosperous, it's because Western society is Western.

A lot of Western feminists think that prosperity means "I don't need no man."

In Japan a lot of women look at prosperity and think "I don't need to work. My man will take care of that for me."

They view the gender role expectations put on them as housewives as a net benefit because they can trade independence for comfort and stability, plus control of household finances. (That's why modern-wave feminism hasn't taken off in Japan as much as it has in places like Korea, where there have been actual mass protests.)

There are positives and negatives to either view, of course.

DaddyAlex88 · 2023-01-11T18:32:13+00:00

I really feel like the people who want to talk about "western" culture really just mean a VERY specific definition of Western that isn't the modern liberal democracy West.

Which.... uhhhh the collapse of that very narrowly defined sect isn't the worst.

dehorsleswokes · 2023-01-11T20:06:22+00:00

Western society cant even reproduce, we are an aging society on the verge of collapse

gate18 · 2023-01-11T21:04:02+00:00

In the west only a small percentage of high tier men, smart and physically robust men, are needed to keep society running.

That's bull.

There's no need for physical robustness to be a pencil pusher, a coder, a truck driver, or a politician.

Have you seen Elon Musk's body? Anything but robust.

These men work in the security apparatus and are well compenstaed.

What does that mean? You can replace a security man with three armed women at any time.

These men have zero trouble getting women, thus western society will keep chugging along for a while.

Tons of weaker men have no trouble getting women.

Have you seen Elon Musk's body? Anything but robust.

As AI/tech advances, the value of average men will only go down more and more

I would think the need for strength would go down.

I was watching a silly debate and a man said "we have become weak". And I was thinking, we have become weak (as in any of the morons down at the gym can kill Musk with one punch), because we have no need to be strong.

If anything, those that do not realize this, will be in trouble. With the advancement of AI, if you think what you need to do is invest on looks and gym, you are the one that's going to be left behind.

Yes, you would then spend your cigarette time at the amazon warehouse (loading drones) by talking about the fall of society because people can't be bothered picking their own parcels but need drones.

Did I say Have you seen Elon Musk's body? Anything but robust. Why doesn't he join the gym bros?

I've read my fair share of predictions about the future, physical strength is never mentioned. And any time those books talk about a possible takeover from China, none say it's because men are weak.

A fat computer wiz-dude or wiz-gal is worth more than a gym-full of chads.

vapordaveremix · 2023-01-11T23:02:11+00:00

Imo, if society collapses it will be from the actions or inaction of the people at the top and not by the single guys at the bottom.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-01-12T00:16:41+00:00

ITT: John Galtian fantasy-lite

---

6//10 Troll

Lord1907 · 2023-01-12T03:28:04+00:00

You have a really weird prospective on how the world works out of the west buddy.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-01-12T05:07:40+00:00

But reality is that western society is so prosperous and strong that women don't need a provider or protector

The truth of the matter is, most people are severely underpaid even in the west, regardless of gender. It's getting difficult to be the sole provider for yourself, but there are more options than sharing expenses with a gf/bf; many are opting to share homes/apartments with family or friends.

So they can choose based on looks, similar to a cute puppy dog.

Huh?

In the west only a small percentage of high tier men, smart and physically robust men, are needed to keep society running. These men work in the security apparatus and are well compenstaed. These men have zero trouble getting women,

Most people ultimately have sex, relationships, dates, and often marriage, though some not as frequently and some later in life. It's incredibly common even if you are not wealthy, smart, or "physically robust" to date or have sex with people who you are (at least initially) genuinely attracted to.

But you're right in the logistics that the world could run with far fewer people. If all women disappeared tomorrow, men would learn and make do. If all men disappeared tomorrow, women would make do. As far as perpetuating the species, if the survivors find that important, frozen sperm and eggs/embryos would last a while, perhaps long enough for the surviving people to develop artificial sperm/wombs/and more advancements in petri-dish zygotes.

mugdul · 2023-01-13T19:02:08+00:00

Society will collapse because men in the underclass will finally rise up and take what they deserve. Women are useless and they deserve nothing. They are only good for one thing and that's it. And those high tier men will finally get what's coming to them too. In the end, only the strong will survive.

Safinated · 2023-01-11T17:52:48+00:00

It’s not indestructible, but decline or destruction is not going to be because 0.5% of men, including the mentally ill, asexual, closeted, and permanently incarcerated, are not getting laid in their lifetime

No, there are much more likely causes, beginning with environmental destabilization

PuertoRock007 · 2023-01-11T18:07:15+00:00

I disagree. It's starting to look like western society is starting to collapse. Now that many countries are signing up to join BRICS specifically to challenge the dollar hegemony and the petrol dollar. Together they'll control the majority of the world's resources and the west will be marginalized.

However I don't see that happening fast enough to change their dating lives. It could be 20-80 years from now, or it might not even happen at all.

It's just naive to think that the west is going to be prosperous and strong forever. Remember Greece, Italy, and Egypt were all once the dominant power of the world.

Royal-Tip4585 · 2023-01-11T19:28:44+00:00

Every read Ibn Khulduns 5 stages of civilization?

This happens in every civilization. always leads to a fall later down line.

Just like when wealth is to much in the hands at the type.

AdComprehensive6588 · 2023-01-11T18:21:08+00:00

<Western society is too prosperous and strong

Can somebody tell this person the cycle of empires and how many strong unchallenged empires eventually fell?

Every country, especially superpowers falls apart eventually. Within the U.S. the family unit is terrible, the people are miserable compared to other nations and our demographics are ass without immigration.

Anybody that says the U.S is too strong to collapse needs to study history.

And if you want a modern day example of this happening, look at the U.K and the hell it’s going through. It’s essentially the US but weaker and was once the strongest empire to ever exist.

<Only a small amount of men at the top are needed to keep society running

This is false. Agricultural sectors, electricity, plumbing, housing etc etc etc…

KapUSMC · 2023-01-12T03:20:37+00:00

We need to separate out the western society portion from the US. European countries are at far greater risk than the US. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs doesn't just apply to individuals, but society as well. The US is so absurdly blessed in terms of resources, how/when society was founded and it's guiding principles, the geography and neighboring countries, far and away the most powerful military/police force to quell civil unrest, the list goes on and on. Being born in the US is starting on 3rd base and thinking you hit a home run when you score. I would highly recommend reading How the World Really Works by Vaclav Smil. The US is the worlds largest producer of energy and food. Which fall on the very bottom tier of the Hierarchy of Needs. Most of Europe is not in that situation.

As AI/tech advances, the value of average men will only go down more and more

This is possible, but I don't think will come to fruition. Things tend to find an equilibrium naturally. Interest rates were far too low for far too long, and money was cheap. The peace dividend made that a possibility. That is no longer the case, and society is already suffering from it. It may take half a decade to realize it, which will make the bounce more painful than it needs to be, but balance will be restored.

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auteurfantastique · 2023-01-11T19:29:46+00:00

What about climate change, resource exhaustion and pollution? Those are civilization’s greatest threats

2023-01-12T06:29:54+00:00

It is possible but I also do not think it will happen in the way people always assume. I don't think the US for example will end in anarchy. But if anything their will be civil adjustments for a time and then a new country or more or just new rule. I think China is a great example of this having been through many revolutions.

Title	Western society is too prosperous and strong
Author	estoniaball
Upvotes	0
Comments	95
Date	January 11, 2023 5:43 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/109arjs/western_society_is_too_prosperous_and_strong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/western-society-is-too-prosperous-and-strong.1146075 https://theredarchive.com/post/1146075

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