New poster to spread false rape accusations awareness.

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People can downvote you all they like, but it doesn't make you any less right.

A rape is an atrocious crime that can leave women feeling emotionally crippled, physically violated and damaged. However, the repercussions for men falsely accused of rape heavily outweigh those from the physical act of rape in less immediately obvious ways. If convicted, men will serve time in prison, quite possibly suffer actual rape themselves, often repeatedly, be branded rapist scum and ostracised by the community once they've served their (false) sentence, and perhaps worst of all they have to live with a permanent stain on their record every time they go for a job interview once they're signed up onto the sex offender's register. All of this will be because a woman stood up in court and told a malicious lie.

In short, while a rape is a heinous crime, the actual consequences just aren't as severe as those men endure when they have their lives permanently torn apart by a slanderous liar.

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[–]EcureuilSecret -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

I see the ad campaign this is based on and I see an ad campaign that is targeting a "some males" problem. I don't even see a campaign directed at men who are tempted or inclined to sexually assault people.

I see a campaign directed at young men who may never have considered that for people more physically and emotionally vulnerable for them sexual assault can be far more subtle and unintentional than holding someone down and abusing them.

What about the campaign makes you think it's accusing all men? If you don't think this campaign should be directed at you, then you probably aren't the target of it at all, and it actually isn't directed at you.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I don't think the campaign is perfect, but I think it's better than most other campaigns and has potential to have a positive effect on the target market of it.

[–]Jerzeem 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

I see the ad campaign and I see an ad campaign that is targeting a "some females" problem. I don't even see a campaign directed at women who are tempted or inclined to falsely accuse men of rape.

I see a campaign directed at young women who may never have considered that for people more legally and socially vulnerable for them a false rape accusation can be far more subtle and unintentional than going to the police and lying.

What about the campaign makes you think it's accusing all women? If you don't think this campaign should be directed at you, then you probably aren't the target of it at all, and it actually isn't directed at you.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I don't think the campaign is perfect, but I think it's better than most other campaigns and has potential to have a positive effect on the target market of it.

[–]EcureuilSecret -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Hey genius, that tactic only works if I'm being one-sided on the issue and don't agree that what you've just said also makes perfect sense. (or at least the concept, the actual sentences don't all lend themselves to the change in crimes.)

I stand by everything I've said regarding the men can stop rape campaign. I think it's juvenile to retort to it by essentially saying "but some women report false rapes and we're victims too!!", but that doesn't mean I wouldn't equally support a similar campaign to remind young women of the implications of falsely accusing anyone of any serious crime, including rape. Automatically getting offended by things like this doesn't help anyone. More men rape women than women rape men, and more women report false rape allegations than men do. These are the statics. You get more bang for your buck and more noticeable results by targeting campaigns. If you happen fall into the demographic that happens to contain the highest number of people they're trying to target but the campaign doesn't actually apply to you then there's really no need to get upset about it. Just because you happen to fall into the target demographic doesn't mean anyone is accusing you of being a rapist, for fucks sake.

This isn't an "us vs them". You don't have to choose to support either reducing instances of rape OR instances of false allocations. Unless you, for some reason, don't support reducing instances or rape then I'm not sure what the problem is. Lack of education in young men has been identified as an important issue to overcome, and they're attempting to address it. That doesn't mean anybody is claiming it's the only issue surrounding rape. Or even that it's the most important one. It simply means that it's an apparent, frequent issue and they've got a new angle to attack it from.

Edit: typo

[–]Jerzeem 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]EcureuilSecret -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I do support the don't rape campaign. Yes, I do believe gender flipping it works just as well, and I am not offended by it. I have the ability to recognise my gender is more likely to commit a specific crime without feeling like I am personally being labeled as an offender. There was no ambiguity in what I said. I'm not sure how that it wasn't completely clear to you.

Nobody looks at this campaign and thinks "all young men are rapists". The only people I've seen think even close to that are the men in this thread being offended and encouraging each other to be offended. If you actually believe that there is a general mindset that all men are rapists you're delusional.

There is no need for your movement to defend the idea that not every single human male is a rapist, because no one thinks that's the case. The face of the matter is that far more rape is perpetrated by men, and you need to deal with that fact. The fact that more rapist are men does not mean all men are rapists, so stop getting upset as though you're gender is being attacked when it isn't. You become the boy who cried wolf and no one will listen when you're gender actually IS being discriminated against.

You seem far more concerned with making sure everyone knows not all rapists are men than you do with stopping rape. I wasn't implying you support rape, I was assuming that you don't and pointing out that it's therefore ridiculous that you take issue with this campaign.

I think men's rights activists are important in promoting equality, but I think it's ridiculous we need multiple names for the same goal. This thread, however, (and most of this subreddit) is disgusting. There is far more circle jerking and women hating in this thread than there is looking at actually promoting fairness and equality.

You've already decided that you're offended and the ad campaign is wrong. The fact that it will probably help to reduce instances of rape doesn't seem to factor with you. Which is probably why you completely missed the point of me explaining to you how targeted campaigns work.

Go ahead an be offended. Misunderstand everything I've said. I'm done here.

[–]Jerzeem 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nobody looks at this campaign and thinks "all young men are rapists".

I disagree. I find it probable that there exists some subset of people who do think this.

If you actually believe that there is a general mindset that all men are rapists you're delusional.

A general mindset? No, of course not. There are some people who do believe that though. There are also people who think that all penetrative sex is rape. Are they crazy? I certainly think so, but they do not and they would like to get other people to think like they do.

The face of the matter is that far more rape is perpetrated by men, and you need to deal with that fact.

This ties into another point. It has to do with reporting and definitions. While I am willing to accept that more rape is perpetrated by men, I don't think the difference is as pronounced as is usually assumed.

There is far more circle jerking and women hating in this thread than there is looking at actually promoting fairness and equality.

How odd, I thought the hate was being limited to people who assume all men are rapists and women who falsely accuse men of rape. Are you saying that all women fall into those categories?

The fact that it will probably help to reduce instances of rape doesn't seem to factor with you.

Making it illegal for an entire gender (either one) to drive would reduce how many traffic fatalities there are as well. I think the potential downsides to this campaign exceed its preventative value.

[–]Alanna -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shikima81 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Nobody looks at this campaign and thinks "all young men are rapists". The only people I've seen think even close to that are the men in this thread being offended and encouraging each other to be offended. If you actually believe that there is a general mindset that all men are rapists you're delusional.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-05-08/news/1993128032_1_potential-rapists-campus-feminist-art

COLLEGE PARK -- Are nearly all male students at the University of Maryland "potential rapists"?

Women in a feminist art class here apparently believe so. About 10 of them plastered the campus with fliers last week listing the names of virtually every male student under the heading, "NOTICE: THESE MEN ARE POTENTIAL RAPISTS."

There is a general mindset and, as this 1993 story shows, it's been in place for a VERY long time already.

[–]EcureuilSecret -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]shikima81 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay then. Let's say you're correct, that there is no prevailing attitude that all men are "potential" sexual predators and the item I posted was just an isolated incident perpetrated by a bunch of "idiots".

http://www.vosizneias.com/47173/2010/01/17/london-british-airways-bans-male-passengers-from-sitting-next-to-children

London - A businessman is suing British Airways over a policy that bans male passengers from sitting next to children they don’t know - even if the child’s parents are on the same flight.

Why?

http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2012/06/05/26822/barnes-and-noble-boot/

73-year-old Omar Amin was shopping for his grandchildren in a Scottsdale, Arizona Barnes & Noble store when he was asked to leave by an employee. The employee in charge of removing Amin told him that a female shopper had complained about him sitting in the children’s area of the store by himself talking on the phone.

Why?

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/13/8305881-no-boys-allowed-more-hotels-offering-women-only-floors?lite

Women-only floors at hotels — an amenity discarded by the hotel industry at the dawn of the feminist movement — may be experiencing a comeback.

Why? Ah, no need for an answer here, it's provided in the next paragraph down from the above...

In a focus group study conducted by the 812-room Hotel Bella Sky Comwell in Copenhagen, Denmark, more than half of the “influential and well-traveled Danish women” surveyed said they’d stay on a women-only floor because “it provides a sense of security; it feels more hygienic to know that the previous guest was also a woman and they prefer rooms tailored to women’s needs.”

So the question should be, then, security from what?

[–]EcureuilSecret -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, the first two anecdotes you have submitted as evidence have nothing do with with the topic we're discussing, so I'm not going to comment on their content. You really need to stop taking your information from one off articles about individuals or companies that do things out of the ordinary, though. These are only stories because they rarely happen, and because society as a whole thinks what they're doing is ridiculous. They are against your point, not for it.

So the question should be, then, security from what?

From rape and sexual assault, you already know that. You have correctly identified that more often women are raped by men than by other women, and that women are taught from a young to take precautions to reduce the risk that they become a victim of rape.

I feel like I'm really repeating myself here, but I'll say it again as clearly as I can: Recognising that any man could commit rape is not the same thinking all men are potential rapists. Your problem is that you fail to see the difference. They don't put up security cameras in stores because they think every person is a potential shoplifter, they do it because any person could be, and to prevent all shoplifting they have to treat everyone with the same precaution. When I go out I keep my drink in my hand, because I understand that all it takes is a single person to want to spike my drink for it to happen. I don't think every single person in the club is a potential drink spiker, but I recognise that any of them could be. If I'm by myself after dark and have to cross paths with someone or a group of people I am more cautious than I would be in a brightly lit crowded place, and it's not because I think that every one of them might assault me, it's because I know that any one of them could. There is a huge difference, and your failure to see the difference is what makes you think men are being victimised here.

From what I can tell you're offended by every rape prevention though education approach. You're offended when it's aimed at victims (or at least when they exercise caution), and you're offended when it's aimed at young men (a campaign thought up at put into practice by an organisation started by men, for men). How do you suggest we tackle the very real issue of rape perpetrated by men, then? Or should we just not bother? Is it more important that we don't suggest that men rape people than it is that we stop them from raping people?

Edit: I accidentally a word.

[–]Alanna -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EcureuilSecret -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PenisChrist 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

but that doesn't mean I wouldn't equally support a similar campaign to remind young women of the implications of falsely accusing anyone of any serious crime, including rape.

While I'm edified to hear that is how you think on the matter, you must know that this is definitely not how most of those who put together the campaign in question (anti-rape) think. They would be deeply offended, and would interpret it as a hostile generalization sucking in all who make rape accusations, if not women in general. IOW, they would not appreciate "the same measure being measured against them", so to speak.

And I think that is the problem many of the men posting here have. It isn't that there are level headed people like you in the world - but rather that they know full well that is not the thinking of the establishment behind ads like this.

This isn't hostile or defensively presumptuousness on my part - the "womyn's establishment" has a long history of forming social and political narratives which have as their premise that - in essence - women are victims, men are aggressors, and it is only the latter who need reformation for all of our social ills (including those which specifically befall women) to be solved. Once again - you may not be so naive and overly-simplistic to buy such religion - but plenty of people (both male and female self identified "feminists") do. And the choice of wording and emphasis in this ad fits entirely into that pattern. It is wholly consistent with it, and best explained by it. Were it not, a more careful choice of words would have been chosen - but they were not. That isn't accidental.

edit: added last paragraph

[–]EcureuilSecret -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I want to add something before I address what you've said. You sound like a very switched on person, but you also sound like you're not taking everything you hear here with a grain of salt. I think the men's right movement is wonderful in it's true form. I look around this subreddit though and see a bunch of men who compare their plight to feminism and spend more time making false generalisations about the way "femisists" feel than they do tackling the issues which both organisations are working towards fixing. I see more support of actually supporting ways to stop discrimination over both sexes (removing gender labels so men can stay at home, women can work, young boys can wear pink shoes if they damn well like them better, ect) and to stop crimes like falsely reporting rape over at twox than I have seen browsing through this subreddit.

The parody poster here is offensive, but it's not why you all think. A lot of people here are jumping to the conclusion that "twox/a woman/women found this offensive so we were right! They hate campaigns that target their gender for crimes mostly committed by their gender as well!" Wrong. The Strength Campaign posters say "My strength is not for hurting", which is a brilliant choice of words because it implies to opposite. If it's not for hurting then it's for making people feel good, it's for protecting those you are care. It plays on the human instinct to protect the ones you love. Then it brings up a situation a lot of young men may not have considered a grey area before, and shows that they have the strength in that situation, and they have the power to hurt with it, or protect with it. Now look at the parody ad. It uses the same line initially, but then it says "my tongue is not for telling lies." Tongue. And in that one word it becomes offensive and takes on a whole new meaning. Whether or not the designer of the parody meant for it, that's what it does. "my voice is not for telling lies." probably would have been fine. It's tongue. It's the implication that her tongue is the thing she should be using to make someone feel good, not hurt them.

you must know that this is definitely not how most of those who put together the campaign in question (anti-rape) think. They would be deeply offended, and would interpret it as a hostile generalization sucking in all who make rape accusations

It's called the Strength Campaign. It was put together by Men Can Stop Rape. It's an organisation started by men, for men to tackle violence against against women where men are the perpetrators. I want to say that again, it's an organisation to tackle violence against women that is perpetrated by men. They are not claiming that women cannot also be violent, but they identified that the perpetrator of the violence was the person to direct their message at, so as men, they formed this group to educate young men.

They would be deeply offended, and would interpret it as a hostile generalization sucking in all who make rape accusations, if not women in general.

Their organisation doesn't focus on false rape accusations. What annoys me most about this attitude is that these people are tackling a real issue. The fact that what they're tackling isn't all encompassing doesn't mean you have the right to get offended by it. It honestly sounds like, "but we are victims too! defend us!" nobody is denying that false rape accusation is a real issue, but this campaign has literally nothing to do with that, because it's a completely separate issue. This is a campaign designed by men, for men. I actually don't think it would be the best way to get a message across to young women, because generally they don't identify themselves as the "strong" ones. That said, if a successful campaign was built around mimicking the concept of this one I'm pretty sure the creators would be proud that their campaign had been so successful it was able to inspire more campaigns like it.

If I answer this question just talking about women as a whole (especially the ones who support the campaign), even though it has nothing to do with the creators of this campaign, then you're still wrong to think women would feel attacked as a gender. You're wrong because you see "men can stop rape" as "all men are rapists" and you're then projecting that attitude onto women. Some people are just undereducated dumbarses, and those people would still be offended because they enjoy being offended by things. Their gender is irrelevant, because they be overreacting and not the majority either way.

the "womyn's establishment" has a long history of forming social and political narratives which have as their premise that - in essence - women are victims, men are aggressors, and it is only the latter who need reformation for all of our social ills

There are no words. You're joking right? There is no delicate way to say this: you seem like a really switched on person who has gotten too much one sided information. The first half of the sentence is essentially the reason feminism came to be.

women are victims, men are aggressors

Historically women were bought and sold like property through marriage. Women were not allowed to have an opinion, to vote. Women were to take care of the children and all big decisions were for men. Women fought hard to start to break that mould. Women did. You cannot jump on the bandwagon after decades of progress and act like you are the soul victims in our patriarchal society. You cannot act like you're fighting against us, or get offended every time you're reminded of the lingering mindset of the old ways. We are talking about rape though, and statistically rape has always been a male dominated crime. You can fork out as many reasons as you like why the statistics might be scewed, but I assure you that men are not the only gender hesitant to report rape. Of course the statistics aren't perfect, but we're better off fighting the types of rape we do know about than we are to completely ignore statistics so that men who are certain they are not potential offenders in the same demographic don't get hurt feelings. (Okay, that wasn't fair, I know you're worried about the this campaign re-enforcing the idea that men rape people. But men do rape people, and it never says only men do, so nobody is being re-enforced with that idea. Men can prevent rape. Not even single rape, that's not the point.)

and it is only the latter who need reformation for all of our social ills

This is the first time ever that rape has been tackled by appealing to the offender, not the victim. Every single anti-rape message up until this point has been aimed at the victim. It has been about how we should stand and walk at night, which routes we should choose, who we should and shouldn't talk to, how we should dress, whether or not we should drink. The reason we have a victim blaming culture when it comes to rape is because until this ad campaign everyone acted like it was only the victim who could stop rape, which leads to the idea that if rape occurs it must be the victims fault for not preventing it enough. It also only focused on preventing rape that consisted of being held down in an alley and forced. It didn't focus on the far more common type of rape from someone you know, the type of rape the Strength Campaign looks at. For decades women have been the target market to stop themselves get raped. Even today all you need to a quick Google search to find story upon story of men who got off rape charges because the woman they raped had been drinking, or was dressed for going out rather than covered from head to two, or that she was "promiscuous" and therefore it was okay to rape her because she really wanted it.

Were it not, a more careful choice of words would have been chosen - but they were not. That isn't accidental.

I've already explained to you how the wording in this is far from something that should be taken offensively. I honestly think you've gotten most of your information on this topic from biased sources. I'm sorry about the length of this post, but I really think that if you're passionate about this issue you should research into the other side of it more thoroughly. You may be pleasantly surprised. At worst you will reennforce your own ideas about it.

And, for the record, I am a self identified feminist. I am not naive or over-simplistic when it comes to complex issue like this, but in some aspects of this I'm sad to say you're bordering the dangerous area of being that way yourself. I am a feminist though, please don't fall into the trap of thinking feminists are the type of people you've been describing, because they're not. You may not realise that feminism is about equality, and I support the real issues that Men's Rights face, just not all the whiney crap that goes on in this subreddit. I don't need to be a man to support your rights, just like you don't need to be a women to support mine, and that either of us have be gay to support them.

Edit: Typos, but I'm sure there are still many more.

[–]Alanna -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EcureuilSecret 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

More African-Americans commit crimes than white people. These are the statics. You get more bang for your buck and more noticeable results by targeting campaigns. If you happen fall into the demographic that happens to contain the highest number of people they're trying to target but the campaign doesn't actually apply to you then there's really no need to get upset about it. Just because you happen to fall into the target demographic doesn't mean anyone is accusing you of being a criminal, for fucks sake.

So, clearly, we should begin the "Only black people can stop crime" campaigns immediately. Except, that would be unforgivably racist. Hmm...

Edit: It should be noted, btw, that many of these campaigns are phrased "Only men can stop rape." Clearly excluding female rapists altogether, even though 40% of rapists are women raping men. Source: The CDC's 2010 NISVS See pages 18 and 19 for rates of male and female rape (please note that some male rape is under "other sexual violence" under "made to penetrate," which any decent person would consider rape), and page 24 for perpetrator information.

[–]EcureuilSecret 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I am in no way saying that women raping men is a less important issue. But this campaign is targeted at men and that is okay. It doesn't say "Only men can stop rape" it just says "Men can stop rape". For fucking decades we've been teaching young women what they can do to prevent themselves getting raped, and it is not working. In fact it's had a negative effect when rape does still occur. We've put so much emphasis on what a potential victim should be doing to protect themselves that there's now a culture that if someone does get raped it's their own fault for not protecting themselves enough. We obviously need more education on the opposite angle. We need to stop only educating on how to prevent being a victim, but now to prevent yourself from being a perpetrator as well.

An organisation created by men and consisting primarily of men created this campaign for men. Which is why it pisses me off that so many guys in this thread are going on like a bunch of man-hating feminists created the campaign and then go off about how women wouldn't like to treated that way. The reason there are no female examples in the ad is because it's made by a men's organisation aimed at stopping male violence towards women. This campaign has potential to be a good thing, I'd hate to see the young people that could benefit from this campaign convinced they should just be offended by it instead.

It's called the strength campaign, and it's been designed in a way that plays to a human instant to use our strength to protect and love rather than hurt. I think it plays better to men than it does to women, when we think physical strength we don't think of women, because our bodies are different and naturally we're usually less strong physically. It's not just a cliché that young men don't always know their own strength.

This campaign is a step in the right direction. It's a start towards educating from both sides of the issue. It is not an attack on men, it's an awareness raising campaign to a particular demographic where a problem has been identified, and someone has thought of a way to tackle it. I would love to see more campaigns like this that highlight how easy it can be to make a decision to change someone's life for the better or worse. I think a similar campaign targeted at young women would be great. I don't think it would work using the term strength, because young women don't always feel strong, but I think if someone can think of a similar concept that women could relate to it would be a step in the right direction.

[–]Alanna -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But this campaign is targeted at men and that is okay.

But there are no campaigns targeted at women. They're all targeted at men-- and there's a lot of them.

It doesn't say "Only men can stop rape" it just says "Men can stop rape".

This particular campaign doesn't. Many do.

For fucking decades we've been teaching young women what they can do to prevent themselves getting raped, and it is not working.

Violent crime is down across the board, including rape. The only ones who claim it's not working are feminists who live in a bizarro land where lower numbers are proof that more women are being raped but not reporting it.

We've put so much emphasis on what a potential victim should be doing to protect themselves that there's now a culture that if someone does get raped it's their own fault for not protecting themselves enough.

I and many others in this subreddit disagree that this attitude exists to the extent that you and others like you claim it does. It is conveniently both unprovable and unfalsifiable. I have rarely seen a true instance of actual victim-blaming. What I usually see being called victim-blaming is actually the justice system working as intended-- for isntance, why shouldn't the accuser's credibility be called into doubt if she admits she was drinking and her recollections off the evening are hazy at best? It's not saying she wasn't raped, it's saying that, in the absence of any physical evidence (rarely present, beyond possibly proving the individuals in question had sex, which is often stipulated to by both parties; it's the consent that's in question), or witnesses, her sole word should not be enough to convict a man. For no other crime do we even suggest that people should be sent to prison for years based on another person's accusation.

An organisation created by men and consisting primarily of men created this campaign for men.

Men are just as capable of discrimination against men and misandry as women. You seem to have this idea we're all misogynists with a paranoia complex against women. The point is the gender of the victims here, not the gender of the perpetrators.

Which is why it pisses me off that so many guys in this thread are going on like a bunch of man-hating feminists created the campaign and then go off about how women wouldn't like to treated that way.

"Man-hating feminists" don't have to be women. And it's not unreasonable to think that women could be offended by a blanket statement calling us all potential rape liars.

It's called the strength campaign, and it's been designed in a way that plays to a human instant to use our strength to protect and love rather than hurt.

This is problematic on a whole different level. Isn't "men as protectors of women" one of the gender roles we're trying to get rid of? Making men responsible for women's well-being (as a group) is what leads to making laws "for their own good" restricting women's movement and freedom, as well as putting an unfair onus on any person to be responsible for another adult. How does this not infantilize women?

It is not an attack on men, it's an awareness raising campaign to a particular demographic where a problem has been identified, and someone has thought of a way to tackle it.

You still seem to be stuck in this "vast majority of men are rapists" mode. Not only is this not correct, as I noted above, but most people see rape as something perpetrated by men on women (and some men). Many people don't even believe that it's physically possible for a woman to rape a man, that an erection = consent. Male rape in general, and woman-on-man rape in particular is a much, much bigger awareness issue. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing, don't get me wrong, but right now, it is, and it's all in the direction of "protecting women." Who protects men?

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You'd like to think so, but no.

What is going to stop the gender war when CEO's are never 50/50 men/women? What is going to stop the gender war when women will never beat men in almost any athletic competition? In Chess? In other strategy games?

The top women will never match the top men. That's due to the biology of mammalian species (males are more diverse than females). Because of that, women will have an endless supply of "inequality" of women not matching the men on the top which will be attributed to "sexism, prejudice, or oppression" (because it can't be inequality because men and women are equal, remember?) which politicians will pander towards to win over the 55% majority female vote.

So this unrealistic belief in equality will continue to fuck us until it finally collapses us. Of course, at that point, women will happily go back to traditional gender roles when attempting equality means a serious risk to life and limb.... they'll let the men do that instead.

And the sad part is everyone knows this. That's why I get downvotes and insults rather than real arguments... because everyone knows there are no real arguments against what I say.

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Serena Williams would kick your ass at tennis.

Serena Williams is ranked below 200 in all tennis players.

Marion Jones would destroy you in a sprint.

Marion Jones wouldn't even qualify to qualify for the men's Olympics.

The only reason these women "athletes" are athletes is because we set aside a special place for them to compete because we know they can't make it in the real world of competition.

There is massive variance among all people and having a world of gender roles like you want is stupid.

Why is it stupid? Because you don't like it? Because it doesn't allow anyone to do anything and fuck over society along the way?

What about effeminate gay men?

What about them? What value do they bring to society by being effeminate gay men? Do they make my jobs easier? Do they protect the borders? Do they provide any value other than consuming oxygen and turning coffee into piss? No? Then how about we press them into a mold such that they actually provide some value to the whole.

Defining individual lives based on averages and patterns of the whole population is idiotic.

Bullshit.

What's idiotic is spending millions in government college subsidies, which increases the cost of college for all students, which spreads out good teachers, to educate women... 50% of which will leave the full-time workforce before 10 years are up.

But no.. we have to treat everyone as individuals and waste all that talent, effort, money, and investment. Where instead we could treat the groups as groups and allow the exceptional to fight past the barriers so that we know only those who will be worth it will be breaking the mold.

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TwoX is a very difficult place to have unorthodox opinions. Chances are you will not be fairly heard out by the majority of the participants (especially their more active members), no matter how civil or polite one's mode of discourse is (and this includes when such civility is hardly justified, given the nastiness of some of the participants.) You literally cannot do ENOUGH to satisfy said people.

While I am willing to concede that there is a distance between how men and women generally communicate amongst themselves (and how that can be a source for misunderstanding between the sexes), the level of sucking up, sugar coating, and dissimulation needed to communicate anything there is not "essentially feminine."

I can say that with some confidence, because I have seen the same overly defensive, uncivil, censorious, and tyrannical behavior from men as well. It's even something of a problem here in /r/MensRights (even if not as acute.) You'll find it wherever dogmatic, intellectually lazy people congregate. And I would say, that much of contemporary "feminism" is just such a religious/irrational and tyrannical movement.

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I do not see this as a men vs women issue it is a fight against ignorance and the people who most effectively promote that ignorance and that doesn't seem to be the feminist movement.

I see most of the things that bother me in the media first, then and only then is it replicated in women around me. We are being led to this battle and many of us are pissed off enough to fight it. Lemme ask you. What happens if we win? What does that look like to you?

The way I see it, it is harder to object to real issues as long as we fight about kids money things and each other. Joining together is always the solution, education is the goal not fire with fire tactics like these posters.

PS if anyone has good reasons to want to fight women and hate it's me. I have been both raped and jailed by women. It just isn't the answer.

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Title	New poster to spread false rape accusations awareness.
Author	Why_You_Trippn
Upvotes	671
Comments	171
Date	June 16, 2012 1:12 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/v4csh/new_poster_to_spread_false_rape_accusations/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/new-poster-to-spread-false-rape-accusations.1019708 https://theredarchive.com/post/1019708

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