I don’t want to feel like a monster anymore.

Driftlight · 2021-03-12T10:13:56+00:00

I totally relate to what you're saying. My own mental health has also been negatively effected by this stuff. And what makes it so damaging for any man who is on the left is that it's all coming from people who are supposed to be on our side (in truth it's mostly centre-right Blair/Clinton types pushing faux-progressivism). I've often thought that life would be a lot easier if I was a conservative as you do get people on that side opposing this stuff. I feel utterly alienated from everything. And it's becoming almost impossible to avoid. I finally decided to all but cut out looking at The Guardian for daily news because it's so misandric and switched to The Independent, but that's starting to ramp up this stuff.

Spellcheck-Gaming · 2021-03-12T11:11:42+00:00

You basically described my experiences over the past few years too. I'm very glad to hear that I'm not the only one :)

My worry is that a lot of guys, faced with the same feelings that we have, have turned to the extreme right. I really hope that we can turn the tide of public opinion quickly enough to take the momentum out of right-wing politics.

EpsilonFactor633 · 2021-03-12T11:58:11+00:00

Here’s the thing. I don’t care if some people think of me as a monster. I’ve stopped wasting time and energy trying to please people who will always think I’m horrible no matter what I do.

It’s not like I go out of my way to mistreat anyone, though. But I don’t concern myself about whether I might be mansplaining or if what I say is offensive or whatever. And when people tell me that I don’t get to have an opinion, I tell them I’ll voice my opinion if I damn well please. None of this hasn’t affected my social life in the least.

So here’s what I suggest. Surround yourself in real life with people who aren’t crazy and stupid and think every man is worthless or a murderer waiting to happen (I find in real life, these worthless man-hating assholes are very rare). Voice your opinion (I actually find it easier to do this in person; people seem less likely to dismiss you when you’re right there). And try not to worry about whether others think you’re a monster. It’s not your problem; it’s theirs.

2021-03-12T13:09:07+00:00

My worry is that if we can’t have a conversation, voice our concerns or even feel like a normal human being in our own skin, instead of being made to feel like a monster just for being born a man, that things are just going to get worse for everyone, and society as a whole. It doesn’t fix the problem, it shifts the blame and propagates it.

I don’t really know what purpose this post serves, but my mental health has really been suffering this past year or so as a result of the sex I was born,

I completely agree. I've had problems with this since maybe 2011, when I noticed these anti-male sentiments permeating into the mainstream.

It keeps getting worse and more widespread. Nobody calls it out. If you do, you're accused of "derailing" the conversation. Or told to stop being such a manbaby. Or it's assumed you think "women and liberals are oppressing you".

If you go to male/feminist critical subs, you're smeared as a subhuman misogynist. I've had maybe five people in the last week attack me for my sub history, calling me misogynistic and a CHUD.

Nobody has an issue with talking about improving public safety. We have an issue with framing it in a hateful way.

E.g. Discussions on mugging are fine. What's not find is only talking about muggings where the victim is white and the perpetrator is black, then implying, subtly or otherwise, that there's a problem with black people.

I just sent off a complaint to the BBC because their prime radio talk show had a full hour on "Why are men such a danger to women?".

It really makes me concerned for how I'm going to be treated in the next 20 years. I can't imagine how someone in a female dominated profession like nursing must feel. You'd be at serious risk of encountering people with these attitudes and nobody would care about their harassment or discrimination.

It sucks, because I can see how society is progressing regards to its views on men, and I can't see how it's not going to get really bad. Even if we manage to campaign against sexism like feminists did, it would take decades to fix.

You'd think that showing people that their rhetoric is literally affecting our health would dissuade them, but they'd just laugh, dismiss us, or gaslight us by saying we care more about male feelings than female graves.

Which is weird, because if I was a sexual harasser and read stories about how women felt in public, I'd stop. All these people have to do is think of men as equal human beings, and they can't even do that.

Suck-Less · 2021-03-12T09:33:38+00:00

The only place we can have conversations about this stuff is online. Do it in public or face to face, and you are setting yourself up for nothing but ridicule.

I’m not a monster, but all this “men are monsters” crap has absolutely drained every last drop of sympathy for women from me. I’ve seen this progress since the rise of the third wave, and I have zero fucks left to give.

Quix_Nix · 2021-03-12T10:59:11+00:00

This is my high school experience. I honestly didn't people were having the literal same experience.

Strikes001 · 2021-03-12T11:32:19+00:00

I never had a problem speaking up and stating my stance. Maybe I've been lucky and haven't been around cancel types idk.

generaljony · 2021-03-12T15:47:28+00:00

I started feeling this in university about 8-10 years ago when I was internalising this type of rhetoric from studying a humanities subject in a left-wing faculty before it exploded into the mainstream.

I was also then, unsurprisingly, quite left wing but over the years I've drifted rightward to centre/centre-right. I was finding that constantly talking about and running in circles that constantly talked about gender/race/class was affecting my mental health negatively. It got to the point that I was feeling guilty about my own sexuality, and it took me ages to get out of that headspace.

The best way to deal with it, in my opinion, is by reading literature, listening to podcasts, and consuming media more broadly that doesn't overfocus on gender/race/class or other intersectional categories. Social media is absolutely toxic for this process of internalisation too - Twitter especially - avoid at all costs. Recently I've been trying to avoid looking as much at the Guardian (as another commentor has said) and the New York Times.

The idea is to construct a 'centre' for yourself, a set of principles or beliefs that you stick to. For me, this starts at freedom of speech and unashamed sexuality. I still self-censor because sometimes you need to to not start a needless argument but for the most part I try and pushback against those that would stop me or people like me from speaking. Reading independent media from centrist/centre right journalists and commentators really helps too. 10 years ago they would have been centre-left. The Left left them.

Counselling also really helped, I really recommend it.

feltentragus · 2021-03-12T17:04:34+00:00

I am worried that this fear of using our voices for threat of repercussions, cancelling, abuse or any number of other negative outcomes, that not enough of a discussion will be able to be achieved to prevent further discrimination from happening and further normalisation of these thought patterns towards men amongst the public as a whole.

Yes, this is the standard process of scapegoating a group. First they're dehumanized, and then their subhuman status becomes the reason for cancelling their right to hold any opinions. There is a whole subreddit, r/menkampf, which uses edited screencaps to exemplify the process.

It's important to realize that the SJW crazies and extremist viewpoints such as #killallmen are part of the system. Their role is to make other viewpoints seem less crazy/vitriolic/hateful by comparison. Then those "less crazy" viewpoints become the new normal and the extremists move the goalposts once again. This is known as shifting the Overton window.

So when someone dismisses your concern at say, the Scum Manifesto (PDF file) as risible due to its obvious and vicious misandry, be reassured that you're not crying Wolf.

Having said that, although your fears are well grounded, even tough-minded activists need time off. Try and make some new friends (okay, not so easy at the moment, given Covid) and when you find someone you can talk to, treasure that friendship!

Good luck and peace, brother.

DeepFriedWine · 2021-03-12T12:38:46+00:00

Let it burn. I don't mean become incels or some shit. Our current 'society' is rabid and about to undergo a period of collapse and violence. Fuck 'em. Build alternative structures. If they want to beat themselves to death against a window imagining new boxes to sort people into while they pursue comparative wealth, let them. Jesus couldn't convince them otherwise; why should Greta?

Who wants to build permaculture farms in northern BC?

yoshi_win · 2021-03-12T14:05:28+00:00

Sasquatch, Godzilla, King Kong, Lochness,

Goblin, Ghoul, a zombie with no conscience

Question - what do all these things have in common?

Everybody knows I'm a motherfucking monster

Conquer, stomp ya, stop your silly nonsense

Nonsense none of you n*ggas know where the swamp is

None of you n*ggas have seen the carnage that I've seen

I still hear fiends scream in my dreams

Murder murder in black convertibles

I kill a block I murder avenues, ayy!

Rape and pillage a village, women and children

Everybody wanna know what my Achilles heel is

Love! I don't get enough of it

Kanye is talking about brutalizing traumas of growing up poor and black, but also as a poor black man. One response to rhetoric painting you as monstrous is to make the pejorative explicit, embrace it, and frame your struggles in that language.

step_aside_butch_ · 2021-03-12T11:42:43+00:00

Already I am seeing certain phrases and wordings becoming normalised in conversation “this is a problem for your gender”, “you’re a man, you don’t get to have an opinion”.

This is a social media thing or maybe in a gender studies class or something similar. I don't think this happens mucy in the real world, the most angry, vocal feminist save their anger for the internet.

I have a co-worker that, if you saw her facebook page, you would think she's the next Clementine Ford - so much vitriol. Yet when you talk to her in person, she doesn't mention a word of any of this, not even when you bring up her Facebook points that she posted. She shy's away, almost embarrassed.

bkrugby78 · 2021-03-12T14:23:22+00:00

I think this is a good community to post in, as people here generally try to understand these kinds of issues. There are certainly things I would not post in many other subreddits or online.

Definitely understand your concern. I am a lot more hesitant to post things on my regular feed, especially when one will be met with "well you have male privilege" or "<insert group> has it worse." Like, ok, I can recognize that maybe some groups have benefitted more over others, but when someone is posting concerns, a concerned response should be prioritzed.

Mad_Hatter_92 · 2021-03-12T15:03:28+00:00

I don’t have any problem voicing my opinion to others, but I have found I new problem with my mental state over the past couple years. I’m now more and more self conscious about the things ive done wrong in the past. Now, some of these things are just stuff I have definitely done wrong, but a notable part of them are things which I have done (not wrong in my opinion) and been judged by my peers over.

I’ll find myself sitting at my desk and then suddenly have a pervasive thought about some shame of my past. I have to actively shove that though aside and try to move on with my day.

Now part of this is probably stemming from past failures of life and love causing a hit in my self confidence, but it’s not all that (like I said above). Just the thought of the times that I was judged for saying things which could get me cancelled per say... that keeps me up at night at times

DevilishRogue · 2021-03-12T15:18:43+00:00

This is a well known phenomenon and you certainly aren't alone. Those on the left simply aren't as familiar with it as those on the right, but the whole 1984 wrong-think demonisation of views advocating actual equality under threat of 'cancellation' has been a tactic since long before it had a name. Just understand how and when to keep your views anonymous so that you don't become a martyr for the cause. Reddit is great for this sort of thing as you can be anonymous. And if you want to say something you don't want associated with your regular account you can always create an alt account for it.

YesAmAThrowaway · 2021-03-12T13:13:10+00:00

I have been holding up well so far but I too begin to notice the effects this has on me.

isshindoutai80 · 2021-03-12T13:38:47+00:00

Flip the script on them. Are black people all responsible for high black crime rates? Are Muslims all responsible for Islamic terrorism? It shuts them up pretty quick. Trust is you aren't responsible for the actions of other men just because you share an XY chromosone. You're problem is that you're actually listening to them. Just because they're calling you a monster doesn't mean you are. In Nazi Germany the Jews were all vilified as monsters, does that mean they were?

The way I see it is this, someone stupid and evil enough to judge me based on the actions of a tiny subset of men (whilst also simultaneously ignoring the many more men working hard to apprehend these criminals) is not someone whose opinion has any value, and if it doesn't have value there is no need to let it affect you.

peanutbutterjams · 2021-03-12T20:36:57+00:00

Hi, I'm glad you posted. If your mental health is suffering, I'm glad you spoke up. The more you speak your truth, the less your mental health will suffer.

And all you're saying is "I don't want to be hurt anymore" and that's a SAFE thing to say. Say it loud and say it often. Everybody deserves to hear it and you deserve to say it.

You don't deserve to be hurt by others, particularly when it's on the basis of your gender.

It's not right that they say hateful things with society's permission.

The more you speak your truth, the more the culture will change. That change will especially speed up with well-spoken and thoughful men like you saying basic undeniable truths like "It's wrong to be mean to people on the basis of their gender".

I write a lot about gender issues and I've done a great deal of work on my own mental health so if you ever want to talk about the pressures you're facing more privately, feel free to directly message me.

GaborFrame · 2021-03-12T16:04:52+00:00

I know your situation. Being a man absolutely makes me feel like a monster.

yakubiandevil · 2021-03-13T01:41:29+00:00

I read a study recently that hostility towards men is subtly tied to gender norm complacency. Make of that what you will.

ImportantResults · 2021-05-05T16:24:52+00:00

One suggestion: stop worrying about offending others, that's programming to keep your mouth shut.

For example, I truly do believe that the vast majority transgender people become that because they internalize the hate of society against their gender so much that they simply want to leave it.

Well, not as simple, but can be explained like that.

But opinions like this don't come out as often because of the repercussions they might have.

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