Why do men want to play devil's advocate? An investigation

queenofswordsxxx · 2021-09-17T23:20:26+00:00

Oppressors need to keep the oppressed in line when they feel like their power and privilege is being threatened

fds_throwaway_4_u · 2021-09-17T20:47:23+00:00

Because it’s easy to take an edgelord, offensive viewpoint on something that doesn’t affect you.

millennialpink2000 · 2021-09-17T19:07:49+00:00

Our experience and perspective aren't real to them so they don't empathize with us. Our struggles and pain are theoretical so it's fun for them to debate if we should have rights because they're so far removed. Men can only muster empathy for other men so playing devil's advocate is like a party game to play

catlady4u · 2021-09-17T18:53:51+00:00

Why do men want to play devil's advocate?

Because they hate women

aluriaphin · 2021-09-17T18:16:28+00:00

I have always despised "devil's advocate men". It's a huge red flag for me now. My LVX would try it sometimes but I shut that shit down so completely that he stopped lol, I was not about to hear a single second of it. Remember dudes, when you're being "the devil's advocate" you're literally advocating for evil. Miss me with that toxic garbage.

IndividualRoutine661 · 2021-09-17T23:08:59+00:00

They like to argue for the status quo particularly where they have no skin in the game

Devil’s Advocate is a true red flag

sofuckinggreat · 2021-09-18T03:26:23+00:00

To be annoying as fuck.

The devil has enough advocates, Brad.

vforvendetta87 · 2021-09-17T19:09:10+00:00

In my experience it’s because they want to portray a sense of dominance/power. Oh but I just as equally counter them, ESPECIALLY when I know I’m right. God, it’s f**king annoying when they do that.

Love_Artemis · 2021-09-17T17:47:00+00:00

Just incase anyone can't see the article:

When someone shares their personal experiences, there are those who believe this requires a counter-argument. Louis Staples looks at the reasons behind why people – often men – feel the need to play devil's advocate

In the last few years, what with issues like Brexit, the pandemic, Trump, Meghan Markle, the #MeToo movement, imminent climate catastrophe, constant elections and a global anti-racist uprising, debating has seeped into every area of our lives. It often feels like we’re stuck in a divisive culture war, which rumbles on TV and social media, dividing families and friendship groups in the process. Online “reply guys” and “debate me, now!” guys have rarely been more emboldened, making it very easy to go from liking someone to thinking they’re a total moron in a few minutes. (Jordan Peterson and the YouTube algorithm, you truly have a lot to answer for).

Another archetypal man who is flourishing in these polarised times – who I’m not looking forward to seeing when socialising resumes – is “devil’s advocate” guy. We've all met him: he lurks in the kitchen of house parties and in the pub smoking area, either rolling a cig in a Carhartt beanie or clad in head-to-toe TM Lewin, wrapped in a gilet in late June. He sits at family dinners and, don’t worry, he pops up at work drinks too. That guy who can’t help himself from saying “but just to play devil's advocate…” even if (or especially when) a topic is being discussed that he clearly knows little about. Just when it feels like the discussion is veering towards a natural conclusion, the “devil’s advocate” card is played again, kicking the proverbial football once more.

Does this sound familiar? Or worse, does this sound like you?

If this hits close to home, don’t worry, because it turns out there are plenty of reasons why men might behave this way. It is, of course, a generalisation to say that playing “devil’s advocate” is a purely male tendency. But João Florêncio, a senior lecturer in masculinities and visual culture at the University Of Exeter, tells me that doing so can feed into some of the typical features of “hegemonic masculinity”. First coined by Australian sociologist Raewyn Connell, this term basically means the ideals and qualities that men aspire to have, and the norms society assigns to masculinity, in order to keep the patriarchy machine going. So appearing to be “well read” or a “debater of ideas”, for instance, can form a part of what it means to “act like a man”.

It also feels like class dynamics feed into this. In the UK, the word “debate” conjures images of the elite classes at Oxbridge Unions and the Westminster despatch box for many. Florêncio, who is Portuguese, has noticed a “British form of dominant masculinity” pervading through public life and institutions, where men of a similar class background are heard speaking on most issues. “Speaking out” becomes a way for elite men to underline their spot top of the food chain, but also for middle- and working-class men to live out their aspirations of joining them up there.

It doesn’t seem like a coincidence, either, that “devil’s advocate” bros seem to have become more of a cliché at a time when universities (their old stomping ground) have become a hotspot in the debate over whether there’s “things you can’t say anymore”. Right-wing media outlets, from Spiked to The Spectator, are determined to argue that free speech is under attack there, despite Education Secretary Gavin Williamson being accused of “manufacturing” a free speech “culture war” at universities earlier this year. As debates on topics like racism, misogyny and LGBTQ+ rights have become more mainstream, one thing that’s become a so-called “culture war issue” is whether minorities have more of a right to speak on topics that affect them directly. In this battle, “facts don’t care about your feelings'' is a mantra that both sides, from left-wing commentators like Ash Sarkar to far-right figures like Ben Shapiro, have thrown at each other.

But what has this got to do with playing devil’s advocate? Florêncio thinks this power struggle over logic might be challenging for some men. “Historically, men have been associated with reason, and women with emotions,” he says. “There’s a long history of men feeling that, as a man, you can engage with everything. And that you can engage with it objectively.” But when marginalised groups speak from their own standpoint, it’s a very different way of approaching things. This poses a challenge, Florêncio thinks, to a masculinity that has historically been assumed to be a “default perspective” that has been allowed to masquerade as having no individual position. “Men have historically had the job of speaking on behalf of everybody, so they have never needed to centre themselves. The authority to speak on everything comes from a perception that they’re not speaking from their own experience or perspective, but just the facts of the world.

”So, basically, men might feel as though identity politics and so-called “woke culture” is threatening their ability to speak on any topic – and challenging their perceived monopoly on logic. Playing “devil’s advocate” might be a way for men to reintroduce what they think is logic or “objectivity” into a discussion, even if it sounds ridiculous and isn’t necessarily the case.

Journalist Sirena Bergman, who has kept her cool debating LBC radio host Nick Ferrari (the final boss of provocative “devil’s advocating”) on numerous occasions, knows all too well that it can be a deliberate wind-up. “I think there are two types of men who do this: the ones who are trying to catch you out and the ones who are just trying to start a debate for the sake of it,” she says. “The former are more infuriating, because the implication is that you don't understand your own argument and aren't aware of the context. It comes from the entitlement which is ingrained into lots of men that their very existence means they must be more informed than me.

”If this sounds a bit harsh, controversial New York Times columnist Bret Stephens made a passionate defence of the “devil’s advocate” in 2017. He said the best way to deal with this approach, even on topics like race, is to “grant your adversary moral respect; give him the intellectual benefit of doubt; have sympathy for his motives and participate empathically with his line of reasoning”.

It’s certainly telling that Stephens, either by accident or on purpose, specified the gender of the devil’s advocate in his defence of them. But surely, when it gets to the point where “he” keeps doing this – particularly on emotive, personal issues like misogyny – “respect” and “empathy” have already been compromised. If debates were truly being approached in this vein, wouldn’t more men know not to rely on becoming a “devil’s advocate” so much? Or at least be able to sense when it’s not appropriate? As Maya Rupert wrote in an essay about white people using this tactic to debate racism: “There is no way to productively ask a person to participate in an argument that questions their equality as an epistemological experiment […] I can’t grant ‘moral respect’ or have empathy for a line of reasoning that, when its conclusion is reached, denies respect or empathy to me.”

There’s also, of course, the possibility that playing “devil’s advocate” is a way of disguising a genuine opinion which might be controversial or offensive. Psychotherapist Lina Kaoud tells me that this tactic could be a reaction to a person hearing a view that’s different to their own. “Psychologically, we have the capacity to perceive any difference as a threat,” she explains. “Instead of being able to tolerate and metabolise the difference, a person may become angry and cover that anger with rationalisation… It becomes an intellectualised power struggle.” Kaoud thinks playing “devil’s advocate” has roots in humans, but particularly boys and men, being “encouraged to internalise their feelings and avoid showing emotions”. Problem-solving, hypothetical ideas, generalisation then become “standard means” of avoiding how we actually feel about things.

Platipus6 · 2021-09-17T22:57:05+00:00

Because they empathize with the devil.

meecy166 · 2021-09-17T19:04:17+00:00

Because they are devils. I joke

Ironsculpture · 2021-09-17T21:17:35+00:00

Because they identify with the devil, that's why.

Pink_Padme · 2021-09-17T19:02:41+00:00

Because they are the devil lol they’re just advocating for their own shitty opinions

LadyM2 · 2021-09-17T19:15:57+00:00

Because they are the devils per se!

dancedancedance7 · 2021-09-19T08:42:48+00:00

I think devil's advocate is a form of energy vampirism. People who like to be oppositional just want to engage somebody in a battle. I get being passionate about certain issues and not agreeing with others but devil's advocate is just immature.

Erocitnam · 2021-09-17T19:40:04+00:00

I really enjoyed that article, thanks for sharing!

2021-09-17T23:12:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Why do men want to play devil's advocate? An investigation
Author	Love_Artemis
Upvotes	204
Comments	34
Date	September 17, 2021 5:38 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/pq4uiz/why_do_men_want_to_play_devils_advocate_an/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/why-do-men-want-to-play-devils-advocate-an.1075911 https://theredarchive.com/post/1075911

Comments