Why we do struggle to admit that looks matter a lot for men?

alexbrove · 2022-01-18T04:14:09+00:00

Looks are an important factor when choosing a partner but remember that looks aren't enough to keep you in a relationship... there's always someone better looking just around the corner.

Are you gonna keep breaking up with your partners every time you meet someone better looking? Do you expect your partner to stay with you because you are the best looking person that they will ever meet? Do you plan to never age and to look the same or to keep on looking even better, for the rest of your life?

If your relationship is solely based on looks then its pretty much guaranteed to fall apart eventually.

PrincessTiaraLove · 2022-01-18T07:56:41+00:00

Pretty girls get played everyday. Looks matter, but as a woman if a man mostly wants me for my looks and doesn't care much for me outside of that then I don't think I'd bother with him for long. Men overcomplicate dating by being lazy. Just like anything worth having relationships take effort.

Angstyteengirl143 · 2022-01-18T04:07:56+00:00

In an effort to avoid to falling into the “women are shallow and only like chad” category lots of us just pretend looks don’t matter at all which is dumb IMO. Looks definitely matter they just aren’t the only thing that matters

HelenHavok · 2022-01-18T02:48:28+00:00

I think maybe you need to do some more thinking about why you’ve come to this conclusion. What evidence do you have that you aren’t just extrapolating how you feel or how others have told you to feel into a reality that isn’t supported by any data? Why is focusing on anything other than looks in a man’s personal development silly? Yes, dating apps can boil things down to looks, for both men and women. And people do generally want someone who takes care in their own appearance, whatever their style or size or whether they are conventionally handsome or not. This has nothing to do with looks though, but more about personal integrity and having the motivation to present your best self to the world.

Ditch the dating apps. Go out into the world and talk to people. Learn some cool skills, do interesting things, go interesting places, join groups of likeminded people in real life. Otherwise you’re just a boring empty shell with muscles and/or a pretty face and nothing much else to contribute.

qazxsw134 · 2022-01-18T07:24:10+00:00

I think it goes both ways.

MegusMarte1 · 2022-01-18T00:59:54+00:00

Because it’s a cope for a lot of guys who don’t want to work on that aspect. Also certain women just don’t want to admit that because they don’t want to seem vain or shallow even though it’s perfectly fine to be attracted to good looks. Lots of guys think they can get by just being themselves and not working on their looks and end up disappointed because they realize their personality or perceived niceness just wasn’t enough to get by on with trying to score with that really good looking girl at the gym or at work.

Let’s also take some time to acknowledge looks aren’t everything either. I think a lot of guys especially incels think looks make and break you. That’s not true, SOME men who are less than attractive can get by on their personality and humor or wealth but a lot also have the misfortune of either being too ugly or boring looking to make it work or others are doubley cursed with being ugly and having terrible personalities. But incels think that them not being born with having a chiseled jaw and strong looking manly face with Johnny bravo hair and being 6’3 is what’s stopping them from being happy or sexually successful. In most cases that is part of the problem but in most case their looks are at least sometimes somewhat salvageable and they can work on looking more attractive but in most cases they refuse to work on it or think it’s impossible because they just aren’t naturally handsome like chad sn their personalities are shit.

My point is to work on everything. Your looks, your personality, your game all of it. No one card up your sleeve is enough in most cases

DanMarinosDolphins · 2022-01-18T07:50:40+00:00

I disagree. I think the number one trait men look for is convenience. Looks are the number one thing they care about, but a critical mass of men will date women who come to them easily. Many men are in relationships with women who are not their type. If someone isn't your type, if they gain a little weight, or you don't like their haircut, you might become completely disinterested in their looks. And, you'll always be glancing over her shoulders for your preference.

I think because looks are so integral for men in a relationship, it's important to only pursue women that you're attracted to as a man. I think men have a hard time rejecting women interested in them. Especially when they've had long dry spells or don't really put effort into pursuing the kinds of women they want.

Red_Trapezoid · 2022-01-18T15:04:36+00:00

Like do we really struggle to admit that though? Or do people like to delude themselves into thinking it doesn't matter? Personality is king. Ultimately and absolutely. However the way a person presents themselves to the world is critical.

Here is what people actually don't like to confront. Personality and appearance is often linked. A person's demeanor, level of fitness, hygiene, posture and so on and so forth is often a part of their personality. A person who is mindful and self-aware is more likely to present themselves better than someone who isn't. A person who is kind and gentle is more likely to give a better impression than someone who is hateful and hostile.

This must be understood with nuance. As too many people have made unfair judgements of other people and themselves based on arbitrary physical features. Please understand that I am not talking about skin tone or skull shape(yikes). And I know what scoliosis is. People should be careful not to judge unfairly or unnecessarily harshly. I am talking about that sloppy, stinking creep at work who doesn't understand why women don't laugh at his sexist jokes and why showering once a week isn't enough.

50 years ago almost every man absolutely SUCKED and women didn't have options and had no idea how much better men could be. That's why there are so many boomer married(or divorced) couples where the woman looks pretty nice but the man looks awful. Now women can and should be choosier.

At then end of the day, men aren't entitled to a partner but we should be self-improving little by little all the time for ourselves. A woman will not fix us. A woman is not going to make us happy. We have to take care of that. Maybe someday we will click with someone the right way but if not it doesn't really matter.

Yesm3can · 2022-01-18T10:57:07+00:00

There are some virtue signaling going on in Western dating world, I feel. I think it meant well at first, trying to be inclusive and all, but it oftens just ended up leaving people feeling disappointed when down the line, what classically seen as desireable is still winning.

I am from the East and it is ok to honestly say (for straight men), that they want a pretty, slim, smart, young and if possible rich/coming from a good family woman. And for straight woman, it is ok to say that they want a rich, tall and handsome. Preferably also comes from a good family and coming with a good mother that will become a kind MIL.

It is somehow taboo to openly say that in Western dating world, but the couples that got complimented are often of that combination mentioned above too.

Terrible-Ad3405 · 2022-01-18T12:17:29+00:00

I don’t. I also don’t struggle that looks matter to women too.

Also you say it’s The „number one“ thing. SURE a man wants to be attracted to a woman, that’s a basis! However she doesn’t have to be „super hot“. She can be just decently looking. Especially if he isn’t a 10 himself he will settle for a more average looking woman. Women also wouldn’t want to date someone they don’t think is decent looking. In THEIR eyes.

Here is the thing: No one is denying that looks matter, for BOTH. It’s just that one doesn’t have to look like a model go get a decent boyfriend. Being attracted to someone can also happen die having a good time together, a good personality and just a „decent looking face“.

The red pill however thinks that, a cute woman with a little Belly fat is worthless to them Bc she isn’t „hot“, when in reality average looking women still find partners Bc looks aren’t everything.

AntiVictimhood · 2022-01-18T14:03:34+00:00

Who is "we"?

Secondly, looks matter for both men and women when choosing a partner. Mutual attraction is vital for both sexes, there just seems to be more taboo around women admitting to the fact that physical attraction is also important. The argument put forth for why men value appearance is often pulled from evolutionary psych, which is that men want an attractive, youthful, and fertile woman who looks healthy enough to endure childbirth. But the exact thing holds for women by that logic, which is that women also want an attractive partner who signals genetic fitness and good health.

Third, while looks matter, physical attraction alone cannot sustain a relationship. Of course there needs to be mutual attraction in order to entertain a relationship with the opposite sex, but mutual physical attraction in isolation is meaningless.

Forth, I find this to be a "chronically online" take. When you get out into the world and connect with people and develop emotional intimacy, you'll find that through that connection and compatibility comes attraction as well. Additionally, you'll find that the people you find objectively attractive may be a terrible match for you, or have no interest in dating you.

Assortative mating remains the norm. People tend to match with those who approximate their level of attractiveness (among other variables). So while you can go on about attraction being so important, it's also critical to understand that options are limited for everyone based on their own attractiveness.

I think you'd love this podcast and perhaps the channel in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu-9u9Ju2s0&ab_channel=QOVESStudio

This episode gives insight into attraction and how it varies for men and women, but remains equally important to men and women in mate selection. It also highlights how men are more flexible when choosing a mate, but women tend to have "hard limits" and would not consider a man who falls below her attraction threshold.

Basic-Distribution14 · 2022-01-18T14:57:35+00:00

I don’t struggle with this. I realize this. But will say that myself and many women close to me are beginning to opt out of relationships with men because this in particular is the most important thing to them. Which turns into shiny red ball syndrome. I think women should start taking care of themselves for their own pleasure and reevaluate what it means to be a woman and how to stay true to yourself. Women need also know that there is life outside of men and relationships. In this modern era women can hold down a household for themselves. Women are going to college in record numbers. I believe that women need to realize they can have a full happy life without needing men’s approval or desire. There’s just so much more to life.

Gmed66 · 2022-01-18T15:35:24+00:00

[permanently deleted]

mammajess · 2022-01-19T09:05:10+00:00

It's not at all taboo. Women and men both prefer attractive partners.

BabisBaymax · 2022-01-18T15:33:10+00:00

Maybe because is not the same way that looks matter for a woman, for example, celebrity men can have body hair, now if a celebrity woman appears with body hair, everyone will criticize or even laugh at her.

Also, I have contact with simple old people here, and I remember a person asking them if looks mattered for men and the majority said no, that the man need to be strong for his family, and a man caring so much about his looks is a proof of "feminization" of men 😅.

Hellion_shark · 2022-01-21T18:43:24+00:00

Depends on the HOT hot women you want to date. most women (and men) who care so much about their appearance, clearly prioritize appearance. There is nothing bad about that, but for them, it's in the first place.

If she is with a choice between a man she finds attractive that fits her personality and a man she finds unattractive who fits her personality - it's a no-brainer. It's not like you would make a different choice, come on. No one is a fucking saint.

Now as far as "The skull of the chad" or whatever You can be attractive to someone using the traits you are given in the best way possible. There are many things that can enhance your looks and for most average women it's enough that you'd give a shit.
Attractiveness doesn't boil down to just proportions unless you are both hideous and a massive asshole.

For example, A guy using a fucking facial cosmetics makeup, and other "gay shit" is instantly more attractive to me than if he didn't. Just because he isn't afraid of the "gay shit" and I do think it makes them look better. But that's me.
Some girls would also hate the "gay shit" and insist on men being "manly" It really depends on who you are looking for

WhoDoomsTheDoomer · 2022-01-18T08:36:00+00:00

I'll say as a guy I do need to be at least physically attracted to someone to be attracted to them. But to be fair my measure of attractiveness is quite broad. I'm quite a visual person and can appreciate a wide variety of looks, but there's only certain looks that I would actually go for

And just because I find someone physically attractive does not mean I want to date or even have sex with them. Like Kim Kardashian is hot of course, but I wouldn't date or fuck her

But 'looks' is about more than just physicality. It's about the way they style their hair and wear their clothes as well, which can tell you a lot about a person. Like if I were to pick between a girl wearing a flannel shirt or one wearing a cocktail dress I'd take the flannel shirt, because that's more on my wavelength, I can pick-up that's she's perhaps a bit more casual and low maintenence which are similar traits to me

Personally I think everyone's attraction works a little bit differently. There may be similarities but they're not standards

RedPillDetox · 2022-01-18T09:18:41+00:00

It's the most obvious, common sense fact that looks matter for men. Ask any normie who has never heard of TRP or anything of the sorts and they'll tell you it does.

When someone mentions that people "struggle to admit that looks matter for men", at least in the context of this sub, what they really mean is "Why don't people admit that women are shallow, only go for Chad and you're fucked if you're sub5 our even bottom 80%" and are botheredby the fact that people don't admit this "reality". Which is just dumb. Yes, looks matter. Yes, they matter a lot. Is it over if you're ugly? Not necessarily. It is if you believe it's over tho.

SnooWalrus · 2022-01-18T01:35:42+00:00

princessbubbbles · 2022-01-18T07:51:58+00:00

Looks are usually the first step, yes. They can even be the first step in platonic relationships. Humans are biased towards what is considered beautiful by our species and culture. There is a problem with many social circles ignoring looks as an important factor. But looks are (usually) the beginning step. There are so many steps beyond that, like getting along personality-wise, having certain goals in a relationship, having similar values, etc. After bonding over multiple traits and experiences, each one trait becomes slightly less important, especially looks.

My biology-focused brain uses the biodiversity analogy. The greater the number of species and species interactions, the more resistant (to change) and resilient (it can bounce back and recover complexity) the ecosystem. If a few species are lost in an extremely biodiverse ecosystem, the system can bounce back quickly no problem. If the ecosystem has few species to start with, losing even one can catastrophically change the nature of the ecosystem and possibly lead to the majority of the species dying out in that area. Some species (keystone species) are more important to the ecosystem than others, but this general rule of biodiversity is supported by the majority of ecosystems on our planet. It's so supported that you can find this general rule in all biology and ecology textbooks. I have connected this to human romantic relationships. The more connections that two romantic partners have, the more resistant and resilient their relationship. Connections can mean traits, values, experiences, etc. There may be a few connections that are more important than others, but generally when some connections are lost, the rest can keep the relationship afloat until other connections are reformed.

Also, kind of in response to your response to another commenter, if you focus only on the initial looks step, once you get past that, you won't necessarily know what to do beyond that, and the relationship may fail to be fulfilling and long term. It's good to keep in mind that "steps" in a relationship can happen concurrently and be revisited later.

This is the first time that I've written out my analogy, so let me know if it needs clarification in some areas. Lol you can probably tell that I'm autistic with a special interest in biology. I don't know if it matters, but for background, I am married, so I have some real life experience with putting these ideas into practice.

vptran31 · 2022-01-19T06:06:22+00:00

grading looks on a 1-10 scale like its a lab report is probably wrong

saying that, its probably a good thing if you got the hots for your lady.

RateMe3456 · 2022-09-28T18:54:41+00:00

Matters more to women and you're only in denial if you think otherwise. Hence why they always date up.

Temple_Of_Thorns · 2022-12-04T08:19:16+00:00

Personally I don't think they matter as much as most think it does. In fact I know a few above average looking dudes who have trouble in this very domain. It's definitely not just about looks.

Bebonjak · 2023-02-03T11:01:56+00:00

Because we want a good looking chick lmao what kind of question is that

Title	Why we do struggle to admit that looks matter a lot for men?
Author	Gmed66
Upvotes	31
Comments	72
Date	January 18, 2022 12:14 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/s6jaui/why_we_do_struggle_to_admit_that_looks_matter_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/why-we-do-struggle-to-admit-that-looks-matter-a.1096983 https://theredarchive.com/post/1096983

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